India - Pakistan Standoff 2019

[Hellfire]

Sir it all feels good and Pakistan is under heavy financial pressure but when push come to shove they somehow survive as most nations will.

Even the most destitute survive somehow. They are unfortunate usually, but some are clearly stupid and too lazy. How long do you think that the people of Pakistan accept being dirt poor, hungry and above all, thirsty? Already people have started questioning the two aircraft shot down hypothesis and where the 2nd pilot has disappeared and ISPR claims that the pilot was Indian and has died.

The real bite comes when week after week supplementary budgetary support comes in for the defence allocation under revenue head. Where does that money come from? Obviously from the essential infrastructure and social support schemes. What happens in the long run? The Economy starts getting affected badly. Now when the economy is already in tatters, what happens? Acceleration in the diversion of funds from the essential to non-essential heads, thereby severely compromising not only the recovery but also the ability to stem further degradation of economic activities.

All these fundings are not without strings attached. I am willing to wait around 2-3 years easily. The bite will come when they start handing over long term lease to their creditors in regions of CPEC - will the average Baluchi accept that?

@Falcon sir when is Infantry going to move for exercise? Any fixed schedule?

Sir.

Wg Cdr Abhinandan's shooting down made India realign the plans. So, slight change. Exercises will occur shortly. Troops will be moved slowly as elections are on and we do not want any situation to develop wherein the stupid people in nation claim that deliberate movement of troops took place to create war hysteria as Modi was losing. Such idiots have played a major role in limiting our options as of now.

 

[Gautam]

we haven't quite mastered this art in spite of being inflicted by their views since quite some time.

Quitely washed your hands off eh.....Smooth, very smooth

 

[Hellfire]

Side-effects of Gagan Shakti ?

At times our average Indian wonders over the PAF's capability. One needs to understand that what we have done over the past decade, of integration of our aerial surveillance platforms into an unitary system, they have had the capability well entrenched for over two and a half decades. They were supported in their endeavours by the best in this field - the US and it's allies.

The situation has now changed. While they remain still ahead in terms of experience, the gap is closing. We are sorely missing the AWACS for which 'money is not there' was the refrain. You can't have 03 x AWACS and 01 X AEW&C system in air 24x7 as you need to rotate the crew and the platforms for maintenance. The other assets which we have, unfortunately do not have real time interface with the Air Force - they cant have it. They are compartmentalized and dedicated for a different role.

@randomradio I do not recollect who said that A-50 does not talk to Su-30MKI (its been a year plus). Incorrect news. It not only talks, it yaps.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Few things from 27th Feb which people have failed to grab and understand are as follows,

• A Mig-21 Bison got better of an F-16.
• R-73 lived up to its reputation as best WVRAAM. I would like to draw attention to the articles written by USAF pilots when they got to fly MIG-29s after unification of Germany.
• The most potent aircraft in PAF inventory and the most feared BVRAAM of the world was completely rendered useless by our SU-30MKIs using superior tactics and better jamming.
• A far inferiror force in numbers was able to ward off and defeat the operational objective of a much larger force in numbers.
• A HMDS equipped MIG-21 Bison was able to guide its missile to the target even after having done a launch of LOBL. This is the reason why we see in that video Wg. Cdr. Abhi flying behind the shot down F-16. He kept the target in sight to ensure that even if F-16 tried to defeat R-73, the guidance by HMDS ensured a kill.
• If I was Chief of PAF, I will now be shit scared of engaging the IAF as my best aircraft and the best weapon has been defeated and rendered useless.
• PAF today is naked, ready to be raped multiple times and gang banged by Mig-21s, Mig-29s, SU-30MKIs and M2ks. Please forgive me for using RAPE but as fighter pilots we use it very often.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Quitely washed your hands off eh.....Smooth, very smooth

Qualified Mech Enggr but with little knowledge on defense equipment. Little interest too. More interested in strategies, diplomacy, politics, culture, anthropology, history, cuisine, music, etc. Not necessarily in that order. Can pick up intricate matters in defence equipment tooIf need be. Need to do some homework for that.But then that would adding to the cacophony here. Neither have the time nor inclination for it these days.

 

[Jaymax]

• R-73 lived up to its reputation as best WVRAAM. I would like to draw attention to the articles written by USAF pilots when they got to fly MIG-29s after unification of Germany.

+1 for this post. USAF quickly added a Helmet mounted IR targeting system to its wish list after evaluating the Luftwaffe MiGs.

Other thing (most probably wrong interpretation) - PAF was extremely risk averse. They flew everything to distract us so that a handfull of F-16s could lob their bombs - even that too from safe distances. Their plan was to lob the bombs and run like crazy. The AMRAAM stunt they pulled to disperse the Sukhois was to that effect. There is a genuine fear of losing aircraft to the IAF and not just for the PR battle. Their numerical disadvantage weighs heavy on their minds.

The other part posted few posts back is that PAF is now hitting or about to hit its WWRs. With slim funds, replenishing their stocks will be a challenge. PAF will now be forced to make a choice each time a large group of Indian fighters moves to the border. Is this real or are they messing with us again. Soon they will be making adjustments to their air defenses, keeping no fly zones - in case IAF moves they can blow everything that flies in that zone saving their planes for when it really counts.

The best time for aerial action by the IAF seems just around the corner.

 

[Gautam]

Qualified Mech Enggr but with little knowledge on defense equipment. Little interest too. More interested in strategies, diplomacy, politics, culture, anthropology, history, cuisine, music, etc. Not necessarily in that order. Can pick up intricate matters in defence equipment tooIf need be. Need to do some homework for that.But then that would adding to the cacophony here. Neither have the time nor inclination for it these days.

Those long trench battles with @BMD is taking its toll then. Very well rest up, recuperate, the Brexit thread is no fun with out you two bickering.

 

[BMD]

Qualified Mech Enggr with little knowledge

You could have stopped right there.

 

[vstol Jockey]

+1 for this post. USAF quickly added a Helmet mounted IR targeting system to its wish list after evaluating the Luftwaffe MiGs.

Other thing (most probably wrong interpretation) - PAF was extremely risk averse. They flew everything to distract us so that a handfull of F-16s could lob their bombs - even that too from safe distances. Their plan was to lob the bombs and run like crazy. The AMRAAM stunt they pulled to disperse the Sukhois was to that effect. There is a genuine fear of losing aircraft to the IAF and not just for the PR battle. Their numerical disadvantage weighs heavy on their minds.

The other part posted few posts back is that PAF is now hitting or about to hit its WWRs. With slim funds, replenishing their stocks will be a challenge. PAF will now be forced to make a choice each time a large group of Indian fighters moves to the border. Is this real or are they messing with us again. Soon they will be making adjustments to their air defenses, keeping no fly zones - in case IAF moves they can blow everything that flies in that zone saving their planes for when it really counts.

The best time for aerial action by the IAF seems just around the corner.

HMDS and LOBL works for WVRAAMs and not BVRAAMs. PAF F-16s knew that they can't engage in WVR combat with SU-30MKI so they stayed at 35k-40k feet height and tried their best to use the range advantage from such a height to try and knock down a SU-30MKI. I had written extensively here about BVR combat and why USAF fires their AMRAAM Ds from over 130kms and why Meteor will will not be such a big game changer when up against 4.5th-5th Gen fighters. PAF will loose majorly if they get into WVR combat with IAF. The only option for them now is to do what they did in 1971. Defend theior territory and forget about raids in Indian Territory. I do not want to share much as there are things which we can talk about post retirement from armed forces and there are things which go down with us to our funeral pyre. We will never speak about the tactics which even if outdated, we employed.
Finally, I do agree with you that now is the time for IAF to go for the kill as we know what they have and what we can do to defeat them. Nanga karkay, duniya kay saamnay, pichwaaday par thoknay ka samay hai. AND IAF is waiting for them but the so called Mard-e-momin are shit scared to get in air. I really can't fathom how a fighter pilot will ever display a patch of shooting down an aircraft which they never did like PAF. Shame on them for bringing my profession to shame.

 

[screambowl]

If I was Chief of PAF, I will now be shit scared of engaging the IAF as my best aircraft and the best weapon has been defeated and rendered useless.

The whole thing to my assumption was staged by both the countries. We hit them at some non military target in Balakot in some jungle , they hit us near the army HQ. Modi wins election Immi remains in limelight for responding. Things went bad when PAF and IAF actually went head on to shoot each other and shot missiles at us and we shot their aircraft later we lost one.

 

[suryakiran]

Trust me Bro. Even I rue the day when I have to call him Mr. prime Minister.

we all. we all.

 

[suryakiran]

Meanwhile, if you have noticed, F-16s sortie rates have begun to fall.

When we can crawl and achieve what we want, why run and tire ourselves out. Conserves our chaps lives for the hammer, if and when we fall.

The objective is to ensure cartographic aggression by nibbling, without losing our troops 'as much as we can'. But, when the hammer does fall, it has to be absolute.

 

[BMD]

HMDS and LOBL works for WVRAAMs and not BVRAAMs. PAF F-16s knew that they can't engage in WVR combat with SU-30MKI so they stayed at 35k-40k feet height and tried their best to use the range advantage from such a height to try and knock down a SU-30MKI. I had written extensively here about BVR combat and why USAF fires their AMRAAM Ds from over 130kms and why Meteor will will not be such a big game changer when up against 4.5th-5th Gen fighters. PAF will loose majorly if they get into WVR combat with IAF. The only option for them now is to do what they did in 1971. Defend theior territory and forget about raids in Indian Territory. I do not want to share much as there are things which we can talk about post retirement from armed forces and there are things which go down with us to our funeral pyre. We will never speak about the tactics which even if outdated, we employed.
Finally, I do agree with you that now is the time for IAF to go for the kill as we know what they have and what we can do to defeat them. Nanga karkay, duniya kay saamnay, pichwaaday par thoknay ka samay hai. AND IAF is waiting for them but the so called Mard-e-momin are shit scared to get in air. I really can't fathom how a fighter pilot will ever display a patch of shooting down an aircraft which they never did like PAF. Shame on them for bringing my profession to shame.

LOBL does work with AMRAAMs if the target is close enough (~10nm). Can't see why HMDS couldn't be used. All a HMDS does is highlight targets that other sensors have picked up.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

How long do you think that the people of Pakistan accept being dirt poor, hungry and above all, thirsty?

I will not put down my money on it sir, it seems like Asians and Africans have infinite tolerance to poverty, wont be surprised if Pakistanis can remain like this for the eternity.

All these fundings are not without strings attached. I am willing to wait around 2-3 years easily. The bite will come when they start handing over long term lease to their creditors in regions of CPEC - will the average Baluchi accept that?

Yeah thats why I was saying they wont be completely paralyzed, they will sell off their land like they did in POK to China for some gain, sell Gwadar or lease it out for long or may even create multiple Chinatowns (some already exists) and provide autonomy to them. Plenty of option to utilize the real estate they are sitting on and Baloch are not very motivated or trained to run over PA, their immediate requirement is food which is surplus in Punjab so they are ready to be slave of anyone who can feed them.

Are we going to keep the pressure for 2-3 years? It will take a toll on us too and after a few months, the results will start coming in requiring recalibration of approach and move towards "peace", the first sign of it will be weekly hotline contact established and working again to implement ceasefire agreement. This long duration military strategy will have plenty of vulnerabilities to fail.

If we are going to screw them economically we must do it by tightening trade routes, declaring them terrorist state allowing us for mandatory inspection of ships and delaying to hurt the trade, sanctioning companies working with them but nothing of that sort is even under discussion inside GoI. Half-hearted attempts may not help us in achieving the objective.

 

[vstol Jockey]

LOBL does work with AMRAAMs if the target is close enough (~10nm). Can't see why HMDS couldn't be used. All a HMDS does is highlight targets that other sensors have picked up.

Read again buddy. You are grossly wrong.

 

[screambowl]

Looks like because ISI has penetrated into Indian media, Indian politicia and other insititutions now Modi will be assisted by FSB of Russia to prevent the political sabotage of current elections by the Pakistanis. Because now Pakistan seem to have began manipulate our electoral and political system. This is nothing but a part of ongoing tensions between India and Pakistan.

 

[Jaymax]

Looks like because ISI has penetrated into Indian media, Indian politicia and other insititutions now Modi will be assisted by FSB of Russia to prevent the political sabotage of current elections by the Pakistanis. Because now Pakistan seem to have began manipulate our electoral and political system. This is nothing but a part of ongoing tensions between India and Pakistan.

 

[_Anonymous_]

You could have stopped right there.

Better then making a fool of oneself in matters one knows little about like Brexit, Indian & Irish independence movements, colonialism, geopolitical events, the economy,etc. But then what's an Irishman who doesn't kick shit & then wonders what's the stench and stains all about.

In other words, Paddy, your knowledge on the above can be written on the back of 1sq cm stamp.

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

We are sorely missing the AWACS for which 'money is not there' was the refrain. You can't have 03 x AWACS and 01 X AEW&C system in air 24x7 as you need to rotate the crew and the platforms for maintenance. The other assets which we have, unfortunately do not have real time interface with the Air Force - they cant have it. They are compartmentalized and dedicated for a different role.

Another sad part of the coin is which hardly anyone talks is, that Pak took delivery of additional 3 AEW&C on 6th April.
http://defenseblog-njs.blogspot.com/2019/04/pakistan-air-force-takes-delivery-of-3.html
Taking there total number to 6 Erieye and 4 ZDK-3, of which 5 Erieye are operational, after 2 were repaired recently. Or in Short they have 9 eyes in the sky birds.
What the effect of prolonged faceoff be, is anyone guess in 24x7, this hole, which our political masters have dug us into, needs to be plugged & plugged soon.

 

[Shaktimaan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1117854235914166289

Baba deleted some tweets regarding peshawar and tonight action