India vs China - War Gaming Scenarios : Related News , Updates , Discussions & Analysis .

Check out the F-35 thread where Paddy has linked a video on futuristic US missile development. We were discussing why the US was lagging in this area some time ago.
Yes, they seemed to have woken up from their sleep. Having said that, currently the European(with Meteor), Chinese(with PL-15/21) and the Russians(with R-77M & R-37M) are ahead of the US in air to air BVR missiles.

Hell, our Astra 1 is as good as any AMRAAM. With Astra 2 and Astra 3 becoming operational soon(within next few years), even India would nose ahead of the US. Never thought such a time would ever come, damn!
 
Haven't seen a single Ramjet powered BVR from China till date. Apparently, they are finding it much hard to design/develop/produce Meteor like SFDR missile.

That's why we did a joint-venture with the Russians to develop our SFDR. Once matured, it will give us serious advantage over PLAAF.

That long range AWACS/Tanker killer missile is named PL-21 and it is not a ramjet but solid rocket motor missile(maybe having twin-pulse or more).

You are looking at products, whereas the paper, which even Ignorants doesn't realise, is referring to technology, ie, developments as theories and in labs. It considers the future since research papers being published indicates future capabilities that can be brought to bear in the civilian market at a later date. Meaning, none of the papers are referring to existing technologies. Being cited more also means the quality of the papers is high.

The paper is pointing out that pretty much everything that will come out in the future will be Chinese.

Then come patents for new technologies. The Chinese were granted 695946 patents in 2021, the same was 327307 in the US and 30721 in India. So, the Chinese have already doubled their numbers of new inventions over the US, whereas India is more than 20 times behind.
 
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Perhaps RST can also inform us as to the paper to application conversion ratio then particularly in the military domain since that's what is pertinent the discussion here .
 
@Bali78

You were of the belief that the Chinese are behind the Americans in civilian tech?

China leads in 37 of 44 technologies tracked in a year-long project by thinktank the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. The fields include electric batteries, hypersonics and advanced radio-frequency communications such as 5G and 6G.

The report, published on Thursday, said the US was the leader in just the remaining seven technologies such as vaccines, quantum computing and space launch systems.



The tracker:

India's rankings are pretty impressive. We have 4 fields where we ranked 2.
I was talking about semiconductors and sensors and my opinion is not based on some think tank research, but actual data from ground. BTW, I’ll take such reports with a pinch of salt. Do you remember how Chinese vaccines were approved by WHO before Covishield and Covaxin ? In reality these vaccines were completely useless and China failed to develop any efffective vaccine even 3 years after Covid surfaced.
 
I was talking about semiconductors and sensors and my opinion is not based on some think tank research, but actual data from ground. BTW, I’ll take such reports with a pinch of salt. Do you remember how Chinese vaccines were approved by WHO before Covishield and Covaxin ? In reality these vaccines were completely useless and China failed to develop any efffective vaccine even 3 years after Covid surfaced.
What's more not many nations opted for them as well . Plus the Chinese were charging good amounts for it .

Sometimes I wonder whether RST plans drafting posts like this or he makes it up on the go much like what a character in the Pirates of Caribbean series says about Capt. Jack Sparrow.

I sincerely hope RST doesn't take this as a compliment which is why I thought adding this disclaimer was necessary.
 
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Chinese vaccine failure and them not being able to contain COVID-19 (both of which India has done successfully), has definitely taken a big hit on their image.

Yet, we must not reject the advancement they have made in several other areas like electronics for example.

As, I said earlier, regarding China, we need to have a balanced view. Never underestimate your enemy, nor overestimate 'em and start shivering, lol.
 
I was talking about semiconductors and sensors and my opinion is not based on some think tank research, but actual data from ground. BTW, I’ll take such reports with a pinch of salt. Do you remember how Chinese vaccines were approved by WHO before Covishield and Covaxin ? In reality these vaccines were completely useless and China failed to develop any efffective vaccine even 3 years after Covid surfaced.

You named the 3 sectors where they are actually behind in the list. They are number 2 in advanced IC design, high performance computing, natural language processing, space and satellites, vaccines and quantum sensors. That's 7 sectors.

Anyway the report is referring to the future, not current ground realities. They are conducting research at a level that's globally unprecedented. The fact that they got 650k+ patents in 2021 is proof of that.

Here's an example:
asdasdasd.png


In the first sector, nanoscale materials and manufacturing, the top 10 universities coming out with research papers are all Chinese. And the Chinese output is 8.67 times larger than the US. Almost 60% of all research papers are from China in the entire industry. Even in the low criteria, there are at least 4-5 universities in the top 10 and the research output is at least more than twice as much as the next competitor in almost every sector.

At the very least, we can tell that they have taken a substantial lead in pretty much every sector that involves destroying other countries. Who cares about semiconductor production when they have better explosives research? Our side created TSMC, their side will conquer TSMC.
 
You named the 3 sectors where they are actually behind in the list. They are number 2 in advanced IC design, high performance computing, natural language processing, space and satellites, vaccines and quantum sensors. That's 7 sectors.

Anyway the report is referring to the future, not current ground realities. They are conducting research at a level that's globally unprecedented. The fact that they got 650k+ patents in 2021 is proof of that.

Here's an example:
View attachment 26805

In the first sector, nanoscale materials and manufacturing, the top 10 universities coming out with research papers are all Chinese. And the Chinese output is 8.67 times larger than the US. Almost 60% of all research papers are from China in the entire industry. Even in the low criteria, there are at least 4-5 universities in the top 10 and the research output is at least more than twice as much as the next competitor in almost every sector.

At the very least, we can tell that they have taken a substantial lead in pretty much every sector that involves destroying other countries. Who cares about semiconductor production when they have better explosives research? Our side created TSMC, their side will conquer TSMC.
Source of this Pic?
 
Chinese vaccine failure and them not being able to contain COVID-19 (both of which India has done successfully), has definitely taken a big hit on their image.

Yet, we must not reject the advancement they have made in several other areas like electronics for example.

As, I said earlier, regarding China, we need to have a balanced view. Never underestimate your enemy, nor overestimate 'em and start shivering, lol.
You should be addressing this to RST. You can tell he's a severely conflicted person if not confused , likely both. On Mondays he comes up with something like this paper analogy to tell us that China's taking over the world & if not that , it's my favorite J-20 > F-35 . On Wednesdays RST will indulge in hair splitting analysis on why Rafale > J-20 . Why hair splitting ? Good question . Because on Tuesday he'd already have declared F-35> Rafale.

Of late ever since you've made your appearance , he's modified his insane optimism a bit by tempering it with reality. But as they say chor chori se jaaye Hera pheri se na jaaye... He can't really repress his original persona hence every now & then we see severe regression.

Apart from the obvious vaccine duds or the SMC fiasco has anyone run a tooth comb thru these papers or patents to discover it's quality or practical applications.

Besides the West or specifically the US has been dominating the show since decades which obviously means China'd have to play catch up & knowing how their bureaucracy functions , a quota may well be handed out that University A has to come up with x no of patents & y no of papers failing which the bureaucrats gets it & funding to the University is in the dog house along with the university itself which is likely what we're seeing today which means a lot of wheat along with a lot of unnecessary chaff.

Secondly I'd like RST to do some original research of his own for once instead of his usual reading & dumping . Instead of sitting on his backside & scrounging thru whatever he can come up with whatever I post , he ought to be analysing their paper to application conversion ratio for a start.
 
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Rafale vs F-35 would also suffice. We'd like a neutral perspective . Except that Croatia like India uses the Rafales so we're a concerned party here too .
Picard has done numerous Rafale vs F-35 fight analysis. Rafale vs J-20, don't think he has ever done that. This is most perfect thread to do so, IMO.
 
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For perspective this is what those papers emanating from China are also about. I'm not complaining about such endeavors in the least for out on Twitter I follow a group of accounts into archaeo genetics & there's virtually a showdown every other day on papers coming out of Europe & the US on the topic which has a direct impact on the AIT / AMT vs OIT debate.

Apart from these the political ramifications seen vide Dravidianism, the Ambedkarite Marxist school of extreme left views, feminism, anti Brahminism , woke ism etc has a direct impact on the politics & polity if this nation.
 
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You named the 3 sectors where they are actually behind in the list. They are number 2 in advanced IC design, high performance computing, natural language processing, space and satellites, vaccines and quantum sensors. That's 7 sectors.

Anyway the report is referring to the future, not current ground realities. They are conducting research at a level that's globally unprecedented. The fact that they got 650k+ patents in 2021 is proof of that.

Here's an example:
View attachment 26805

In the first sector, nanoscale materials and manufacturing, the top 10 universities coming out with research papers are all Chinese. And the Chinese output is 8.67 times larger than the US. Almost 60% of all research papers are from China in the entire industry. Even in the low criteria, there are at least 4-5 universities in the top 10 and the research output is at least more than twice as much as the next competitor in almost every sector.

At the very least, we can tell that they have taken a substantial lead in pretty much every sector that involves destroying other countries. Who cares about semiconductor production when they have better explosives research? Our side created TSMC, their side will conquer TSMC.
Lol. You decided the future based on number of research papers out of universities?? Did anyone bothered to check the quality of the papers?
Regarding patents, how many of these patents are filed in US? Just check the numbers.
Even in US, IBM has been filing and holding highest number of patents since decades. Do I need to tell you the condition of IBM?

Just like Pakistanis are more Muslim than Arabs, you are more Chinese than the people of China.

Who cares about semiconductors? The whole world came to standstill without them.
 
Lol. You decided the future based on number of research papers out of universities?? Did anyone bothered to check the quality of the papers?
Regarding patents, how many of these patents are filed in US? Just check the numbers.
Even in US, IBM has been filing and holding highest number of patents since decades. Do I need to tell you the condition of IBM?

Just like Pakistanis are more Muslim than Arabs, you are more Chinese than the people of China.

Who cares about semiconductors? The whole world came to standstill without them.
But we do not need to underestimate our enemy. We need to assume that it is more capable than us and then prepare to counter it. What say?
 
But we do not need to underestimate our enemy. We need to assume that it is more capable than us and then prepare to counter it. What say?
I’m not underestimating Chinese. They have done wonders over last 3 decades. However, we should not grossly overestimate their capabilities. It doesn’t help anyway.
 
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Lol. You decided the future based on number of research papers out of universities?? Did anyone bothered to check the quality of the papers?
Regarding patents, how many of these patents are filed in US? Just check the numbers.
Even in US, IBM has been filing and holding highest number of patents since decades. Do I need to tell you the condition of IBM?

The number of patents granted worldwide still sees China on top. IBM is a poor example because they don't have the funds to commercialise what they patent. Do you think China has money problems?

The best way you can judge a paper is how many times it was cited by others, and it's pretty high there as well. You should read the report.

Granted the majority of what they release is crap, but the stuff that's not crap is very competitive with the West.

Just like Pakistanis are more Muslim than Arabs, you are more Chinese than the people of China.

Me and many other China watchers who actually understand the threat they pose.

They are functioning at a level they shouldn't be at their economic level. We are looking ahead, not just going by what have demonstrated to date.

Recall the time when you were completely against starting semiconductor production in India, until the Americans sanctioned both China and Russia? You needed to experience the loss before you could change your mind. There are many people who can anticipate a loss before it happens.

Recall that in 2018-19, I pointed out HTT-40 won't be happening until at least 2022 and that the first batch will get trained only after 2025? Guess what? It's happening exactly as I predicted. The only saving grace is we don't have fighter jets anyway. :ROFLMAO:

Similarly China can't be understood by looking at what they have today, there is a need to predict future outcomes for their actions. The Chinese are experiencing a pattern of exponential growth that's not commensurate with their economic standing. India is doing even better in that regards, although it's still not visible yet, like the fact that we have caught up with the West in military tech in many areas. A lot of Western analysts have not yet realised this, although active think tank analysts have picked up on it recently. But it's even worse with China, where ostrich and sand comes to mind. At least active analysts are keeping up.

Who cares about semiconductors? The whole world came to standstill without them.

Context. I wouldn't care about semiconductors myself if I have the ability to (and am allowed to) buy out Intel or even take it.

Old style, invade, conquer and take over. Now, the Americans plan to destroy TSMC in case of a successful invasion. But it's the human resources that actually count. Unless the US is able to rescue literally everybody associated with the industry, including their families, even extended families, they will fail. The Chinese have a habit of using family members left in China to bring back overseas Chinese illegally.

Anyway, you are hung up on semiconductors, where even the paper says the Chinese are behind. So we are already on the same page here. There's 37 other sectors where they are ahead and are headed towards dominating or having a monopoly in many of those. So, while the West has a lead in Si-based semiconductors, the Chinese are ahead in nanomagnets research. So, some company in China could just show up one day with a namomagnets based computer that can blow silicon out of the water. So you need to figure out if today's semiconductor industry will survive against future disruptive technologies, 'cause, just like ChatGPT or Sputnik, when it happens, it will happen overnight.
 
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