The lot which built these three trainers retired long long back and with their retirement we lost that knowledge. The new set of people are relearning and discovering what we knew in the past. Its the same story as our Gyaan and Vedas.
Trainer Aircraft of IAF - PC-7, HTT-40, HJT-36, BAE Hawk
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
This movie was released probably when I was already a fighter pilot and we loved every scene of it as we had freshly passed out of AFA, Dundigal. The movie which shaped my mind was and is all time hit TOPGUN. I remember every dialogue of Maverick even today. And my children at times make fun of me for that. The day the trailer of the sequal was released, My daughter sent it to me on whatsapp with a essage- here it is for you Mav again.Movie Vijeta (1982) redux
Can't find the particular scene though
According Mr. Arup Chatterjee, Director (Engg and R&D) the PSQR test points have been met and the spin completion is the last metric which needs to be accomplished before the aircraft enters service. As a matter of fact, HTT 40 exceeds the Preliminary Services Qualitative Requirements (PSQR) on most fronts and offers a technologically advanced product than its competitor.
Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/66557214.cms?from=mdr&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
5 spins done yesterday, the project is chugging along well, It will get accepted and HAL will save a million Francs too
when was this pic released? was it 1985 or 1988? In AFA, we were required to undergo solo spin check on Kirans in our 77th sortie. It was called the 77th check and 78th sortie used to be our solo spin. We had less than 72 hrs in log book when we did it. I am from 141PC though my NDA IAF coursemates are from 139PC. I was from IN and we used to go for training after becoming officers. IAF had trained only ten courses from 133 to 143 in all jet training as HT-2 were grounded and HPT-32 was yet to be inducted. We had very high rejection rate as the syllabus laid down was the most stringent for any airforce till date. I did my first solo with just 19.55 hrs in my log book and that too on a jet. Our 21st check was the earliest a pupil could be put up for solo check. I cleared it in my first attempt.
If HTT 40 will get delayed why aren't we making efforts to speed it up rather than looking for foreign options.
Allocate more money material and men to get it done.
Why are we always expecting pumpkin from peanut..
Allocate more money material and men to get it done.
Why are we always expecting pumpkin from peanut..
HTT40, LUH, LCH, MK1A, IJT , all these require full attention in every possible way.
Anantha Krishnan M(@writetake) Tweeted:
#BreakingNews
HAL's #HTT40 finally undertakes 5-turn spin successfully today. It is mandatory to demonstrate a 6-turn (dropping from the sky at 1000 ft/min) and the young ARDC team is all focussed for this in a few days, weather permitting. What an achievement. 1/2 @akananth Anantha Krishnan M on Twitter ( )
@randomradio ; @Milspec
Anantha Krishnan M
#BreakingNews
Big round of applause to the #HTT40 team for they knew that success would at striking range one day. Despite all kinds of mess #HAL is in now, this team stuck to their guns, focussed. All the best for 6-turn spin. @manoharparrikar will be a happy man. 2/2
@akananth Anantha Krishnan M on Twitter ( )
Yeah, this is a pretty good achievement. Now it's turning into something that works.
According Mr. Arup Chatterjee, Director (Engg and R&D) the PSQR test points have been met and the spin completion is the last metric which needs to be accomplished before the aircraft enters service. As a matter of fact, HTT 40 exceeds the Preliminary Services Qualitative Requirements (PSQR) on most fronts and offers a technologically advanced product than its competitor.
Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/66557214.cms?from=mdr&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
5 spins done yesterday, the project is chugging along well, It will get accepted and HAL will save a million Francs too
I know the progess of the trainer. It's the most dangerous parts that are left, that IJT failed. Everything else is easy to achieve.
All tests over now?
Harsh vardhan had mentioned it's in controlled environment.. With addons on both ventral and dorsal fuselage...
I guess they ll have to repeat the feat without those accessories.. After gaining confidence.
I don't think its tests are over yet, else they would have said that htt40 is awarded ioc certification.
There must be test points still left. But i think that this was last major testpoint. Now with this one completed, we can expect something soon.
HAL-built trainer aircraft HTT-40 clears crucial flight test successfully
Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) has underlined its growing capability to design and develop fixed-wing aircraft by steering its home grown Hindustan Turbo Trainer-40 (HTT-40) basic trainer to the brink of final flight clearance.
In flight-testing on Saturday in Bengaluru, HAL’s test pilots threw the HTT-40 into multiple spins and, each time, the trainer returned to level flight smoothly. In so doing, the HTT-40 cleared the so-called “six-turn spin test”, regarded as the ultimate and most difficult test for a trainer aircraft.
The HTT-40 has already met and, in many aspects of flight performance, surpassed the so-called “Air Staff Qualitative Requirements” (ASQRs), which lists out the flight performance — speed, turn, ceiling, etc. — that the IAF demands from an aircraft.
Since 2012, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has consistently opposed the HTT-40, first pressuring the Ministry of Defence (MoD) into importing 75 Pilatus PC-7 Mark II basic trainers from Switzerland, and then demanding more imports because HAL would allegedly never be able to steer the HTT-40 through all its tests.
“There is no need for [the HTT-40 trainer]”, then IAF boss, Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne, had dismissively stated at the Aero India show in 2013. “We have the Pilatus PC-7. It’s a proven aircraft. The project HAL plans is from scratch. Our indications are that the cost will be too high. There is no need for all this.” Each successive IAF chief followed the same line, criticizing the HTT-40, while demanding more Pilatus imports.
As Business Standard reported (June 10, 2019, “IAF block on indigenous HTT-40 trainer aircraft keeps door open for Swiss trainers”) the current IAF chief refused to even issue a tender for the HTT-40, which was needed to procure engines for the production aircraft. The IAF stated it would only do so after the HTT-40 cleared the six-turn spin tests. HAL has responded to IAF opposition with defiance. Successive HAL chiefs backed the HTT-40, committing Rs 350 crore of internal HAL funds to the project. A team of young, talented HAL designers have worked without IAF assistance or funding, backed to the hilt by former defence ministers, A K Antony and Manohar Parrikar.
For the Pilatus PC-7 Mark II trainer, the procurement of which is already under the scanner of the Central Bureau of Investigation, this most likely spells the end of further imports. The HTT-40 falls under the category of “Indian designed, developed and manufactured” (IDDM) equipment, and the MoD cannot import more Pilatus without a detailed explanation of why the HTT-40 is being ignored.
“For HAL, clearing the HTT-40’s six-turn spin tests removes a monkey from our backs. Our intermediate jet trainer (IJT) aircraft had failed its spin tests and we were determined this would not be the fate of the HTT-40. In fact, not just has the HTT-40 cleared its spin and stall tests, we have revived the IJT project as well,” said HAL’s design chief, Arup Chatterjee.
HAL has manufactured the IAF’s fleet of Hawk advanced jet trainers (AJT), with technology from BAE Systems. With the HTT-40 poised for final clearance, a breakthrough on the IJT could mean that the IAF’s entire training aircraft fleet comprises of HAL-built aircraft.
Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) has underlined its growing capability to design and develop fixed-wing aircraft by steering its home grown Hindustan Turbo Trainer-40 (HTT-40) basic trainer to the brink of final flight clearance.
In flight-testing on Saturday in Bengaluru, HAL’s test pilots threw the HTT-40 into multiple spins and, each time, the trainer returned to level flight smoothly. In so doing, the HTT-40 cleared the so-called “six-turn spin test”, regarded as the ultimate and most difficult test for a trainer aircraft.
The HTT-40 has already met and, in many aspects of flight performance, surpassed the so-called “Air Staff Qualitative Requirements” (ASQRs), which lists out the flight performance — speed, turn, ceiling, etc. — that the IAF demands from an aircraft.
Since 2012, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has consistently opposed the HTT-40, first pressuring the Ministry of Defence (MoD) into importing 75 Pilatus PC-7 Mark II basic trainers from Switzerland, and then demanding more imports because HAL would allegedly never be able to steer the HTT-40 through all its tests.
“There is no need for [the HTT-40 trainer]”, then IAF boss, Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne, had dismissively stated at the Aero India show in 2013. “We have the Pilatus PC-7. It’s a proven aircraft. The project HAL plans is from scratch. Our indications are that the cost will be too high. There is no need for all this.” Each successive IAF chief followed the same line, criticizing the HTT-40, while demanding more Pilatus imports.
As Business Standard reported (June 10, 2019, “IAF block on indigenous HTT-40 trainer aircraft keeps door open for Swiss trainers”) the current IAF chief refused to even issue a tender for the HTT-40, which was needed to procure engines for the production aircraft. The IAF stated it would only do so after the HTT-40 cleared the six-turn spin tests. HAL has responded to IAF opposition with defiance. Successive HAL chiefs backed the HTT-40, committing Rs 350 crore of internal HAL funds to the project. A team of young, talented HAL designers have worked without IAF assistance or funding, backed to the hilt by former defence ministers, A K Antony and Manohar Parrikar.
For the Pilatus PC-7 Mark II trainer, the procurement of which is already under the scanner of the Central Bureau of Investigation, this most likely spells the end of further imports. The HTT-40 falls under the category of “Indian designed, developed and manufactured” (IDDM) equipment, and the MoD cannot import more Pilatus without a detailed explanation of why the HTT-40 is being ignored.
“For HAL, clearing the HTT-40’s six-turn spin tests removes a monkey from our backs. Our intermediate jet trainer (IJT) aircraft had failed its spin tests and we were determined this would not be the fate of the HTT-40. In fact, not just has the HTT-40 cleared its spin and stall tests, we have revived the IJT project as well,” said HAL’s design chief, Arup Chatterjee.
HAL has manufactured the IAF’s fleet of Hawk advanced jet trainers (AJT), with technology from BAE Systems. With the HTT-40 poised for final clearance, a breakthrough on the IJT could mean that the IAF’s entire training aircraft fleet comprises of HAL-built aircraft.
Manmohan Bahadur (@BahadurManmohan) Tweeted:
Hope the DOCUMENTATION is going on in parallel . Also jigs and tools being made. As also CEMILAC expediting its certification. Have orders been placed for imported items like the engine? Lead time for that? CNC timeline? Many a slip yet possible as per track record of @HALHQBLR Harsh Vardhan Thakur on Twitter ( )
Harsh Vardhan Thakur (@hvtiaf) Tweeted:
@BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR 1. Yes Sir
2. Yes Sir
3. Yes Sir
4. Further work & expenses need some backing frm user. That's @ stage 0 presently. No AoN yet. Orders awaited.
- for the 1st time in HAL history, there are 6 ex-IAF pilots employed for projects. Should make some difference. We'll try our best. ( )
Manmohan Bahadur (@BahadurManmohan) Tweeted:
@hvtiaf @HALHQBLR So very good to read that. ( )
The_Albatross (@TheAlbatross15) Tweeted:
@BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR Yes absolutely. @HALHQBLR has a tendency of putting every small achievement out there and @ajaishukla then starts doing what he does best. But this is not full certification.and given d abysmal program mgt skills of HAL, serial production may b further away still. ( )
Harsh Vardhan Thakur (@hvtiaf) Tweeted:
@TheAlbatross15 @BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR @ajaishukla No comments except....
6 turn prototype spin was last done in early 80s. It's a huge achievement from experimental flight testing point of view. Could check with any experimental test pilot, serving or retired. ( )
The_Albatross (@TheAlbatross15) Tweeted:
@hvtiaf @BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR @ajaishukla Too many times @HALHQBLR has promised much, delivered little, behind schedule and below quality. And then used selective media leaks to snipe at its customers. Hence, stupendous efforts by d testing team notwithstanding, d management needs to smarten up (The_Albatross on Twitter)
Harsh Vardhan Thakur (@hvtiaf) Tweeted:
@TheAlbatross15 @BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR @ajaishukla Yes, media is a double edged sword in our business.
We should stick to our task and let the product speak for itself. I can't disagree there. (Harsh Vardhan Thakur on Twitter)
Nilesh Rane (@nileshjrane) Tweeted:
@hvtiaf @TheAlbatross15 @BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR @ajaishukla Disagree @hvtiaf Sir. In fact @HALHQBLR and all other of our desi orgs need to up the ante on projecting them to the world. So many of our achievements are never shown to the Nation properly. Of coarse product/service quality is non-negotiable but so is right kind of marketing. (Nilesh Rane on Twitter)
Harsh Vardhan Thakur (@hvtiaf) Tweeted:
@nileshjrane @TheAlbatross15 @BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR @ajaishukla I hear you
(Harsh Vardhan Thakur on Twitter)
KSingh (@KSingh84856557) Tweeted:
@BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR Totally unfair. If this was left to IAF India would still be importing such a basic craft sir! HAL have funded this development and certification internally from their own funds. Services need to stop blaming HAL as default position (KSingh on Twitter)
Hope the DOCUMENTATION is going on in parallel . Also jigs and tools being made. As also CEMILAC expediting its certification. Have orders been placed for imported items like the engine? Lead time for that? CNC timeline? Many a slip yet possible as per track record of @HALHQBLR Harsh Vardhan Thakur on Twitter ( )
Harsh Vardhan Thakur (@hvtiaf) Tweeted:
@BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR 1. Yes Sir
2. Yes Sir
3. Yes Sir
4. Further work & expenses need some backing frm user. That's @ stage 0 presently. No AoN yet. Orders awaited.
- for the 1st time in HAL history, there are 6 ex-IAF pilots employed for projects. Should make some difference. We'll try our best. ( )
Manmohan Bahadur (@BahadurManmohan) Tweeted:
@hvtiaf @HALHQBLR So very good to read that. ( )
The_Albatross (@TheAlbatross15) Tweeted:
@BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR Yes absolutely. @HALHQBLR has a tendency of putting every small achievement out there and @ajaishukla then starts doing what he does best. But this is not full certification.and given d abysmal program mgt skills of HAL, serial production may b further away still. ( )
Harsh Vardhan Thakur (@hvtiaf) Tweeted:
@TheAlbatross15 @BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR @ajaishukla No comments except....
6 turn prototype spin was last done in early 80s. It's a huge achievement from experimental flight testing point of view. Could check with any experimental test pilot, serving or retired. ( )
The_Albatross (@TheAlbatross15) Tweeted:
@hvtiaf @BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR @ajaishukla Too many times @HALHQBLR has promised much, delivered little, behind schedule and below quality. And then used selective media leaks to snipe at its customers. Hence, stupendous efforts by d testing team notwithstanding, d management needs to smarten up (The_Albatross on Twitter)
Harsh Vardhan Thakur (@hvtiaf) Tweeted:
@TheAlbatross15 @BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR @ajaishukla Yes, media is a double edged sword in our business.
We should stick to our task and let the product speak for itself. I can't disagree there. (Harsh Vardhan Thakur on Twitter)
Nilesh Rane (@nileshjrane) Tweeted:
@hvtiaf @TheAlbatross15 @BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR @ajaishukla Disagree @hvtiaf Sir. In fact @HALHQBLR and all other of our desi orgs need to up the ante on projecting them to the world. So many of our achievements are never shown to the Nation properly. Of coarse product/service quality is non-negotiable but so is right kind of marketing. (Nilesh Rane on Twitter)
Harsh Vardhan Thakur (@hvtiaf) Tweeted:
@nileshjrane @TheAlbatross15 @BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR @ajaishukla I hear you
(Harsh Vardhan Thakur on Twitter)KSingh (@KSingh84856557) Tweeted:
@BahadurManmohan @HALHQBLR Totally unfair. If this was left to IAF India would still be importing such a basic craft sir! HAL have funded this development and certification internally from their own funds. Services need to stop blaming HAL as default position (KSingh on Twitter)