India vs China - War Gaming Scenarios : Related News , Updates , Discussions & Analysis .

Lolwa

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Feb 6, 2020
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Few years back, there were some rumours about Leonardo Skyward-NG IRST pods for Tejas MK1A. Lets see if we go for it or not!

Astra-IR is unfortunately 4/5 years minimum away from induction. Astra 2 and 3 should become operational soon. Anyways, we are going for ASRAAM Block-6 which is a kickass WVR missile that has near BVR speed and range. Until Astra IR(actually I want twin-pulse version of this) becomes operational both MKI and MK1A will use it as their primary WVR missile. Also with LOAL capability they should be able to engage targets using passive cuing from at least 50kms away which is very good.

R-27T/ET despite all the hype are LOBL missiles. Which means their seeker first needs to acquire the target to get the firing permission. It is totally obsolete now.
What's perplexing is we didn't buy r-27 EM and EA . Both of them have ranges of 130km and 170 km and they would be enough to make our flankers dangerous but we instead bought T1 and ET1 and ER.
We right now need more of these
r-37M
Meteor
Astra mk 2
R-27EM/EA
Right now. Hopefully some American fight gets inducted so that we can get our hands on the aim 120d too.
 

Rajput Lion

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Sep 23, 2022
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What's perplexing is we didn't buy r-27 EM and EA . Both of them have ranges of 130km and 170 km and they would be enough to make our flankers dangerous but we instead bought T1 and ET1 and ER.
What's the proof that R-27EA exists? If it does in RuAF, then we definitely got this along with R-77-1.
We right now need more of these
r-37M
Meteor
Astra mk 2
R-27EM/EA
Right now. Hopefully some American fight gets inducted so that we can get our hands on the aim 120d too.
Honestly, with MKI/Tejas both getting Astra(soon in latter's case)/Derby-ER/ASRAAM Block-6, I don't think we need any of the above. For AWACS killer role, Rafale+ Meteor combo should suffice.

R-37M? I think we should have procured it, but then maybe Russians were asking a high price or put some clause?? Who knows? But anyways, with Astra 2/3 becoming operational within the next few years(Astra 2 most definitely), our BVR missile strength will be quite potent for our adversaries.
 

randomradio

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He is spot on. Chinese are shit scared of India’s rise.

Forget about Chinese government, my Chinese friends closely watch Modi. I was surprised how much they know what Modi is doing compared to most Indians know. They know what Indians are capable of and Modi is the leader who can wake up the sleeping giant.

India's long term potential is that of a lone superpower, reducing the US and China into great powers in comparison.
 
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_Anonymous_

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India's long term potential is that of a loud mouth like many out here. We've civilizational fault lines like none other face. The CAA protests , the farm law protests, the sar tan se judaa campaign & this little ruckus we're seeing in Punjab are just manifestations of that.

To add to this we've a third world sub saharan economy & polity in significant parts of the land with a first world judiciary now sitting to decide whether Gay marriages out to be permitted apart from extending reservations to include depressed classes of all religions which up until now is restricted to Dharmic communities under the Constitution which Itself was perverted to include Sikhs & later converts to Buddhism where these religions explicitly don't recognize caste.

What this move will do to the non proselytizing majority community in the future can only be imagined & these are only 2 random examples I can think off top of the mind. The Sabari malai temple issue & the SC judgement in that case is another along with sustained government control of temples with no such government control over any other religion's places of worship or academic institutions.

I could go on & on & fill up a hundred posts on why we will never be even a regional power for a sustained amount of time leave alone a global power forget a super power . It's a miracle we've reached thus far . If we've got to get further this needs sorting out within this century.

Else we're back to the days of fragmentation before the Raj which facilitated the conquest. For more perspective I can go all the way back to just before the Ghorid conquest of Delhi & the Chahamana kingdom & the political situation as it existed then. I could go even further back to the 8th century tripartite struggle between the Gurjara Pratiharas in the North / North West of India, the Rashtakutas in the West / South West & the Palas in the East / Centre East lasting nearly 3 centuries completely exhausted the polity such that they took no cognizance of the Arab invasion of Sind allowing them to base there where they launched regular raids into what's present day India.

While the arabs were ultimately unsuccessful, this inability or rather the lack of foresight to uproot them cost us later as the Turkics invaded present day Afghanistan & the Ghaznavids came to power in the 10th century extending their base to present day Pakistan where Islam was already established & gained roots from where launching operations into India became easy.
 

Bali78

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Dec 26, 2017
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India's long term potential is that of a lone superpower, reducing the US and China into great powers in comparison.
That will not happen. All 3 will exist as big economic super powers from 2035 to 2060. India will not be a military super power for next 25 years. We just don’t have the inclination towards that. Current government is the best one we ever got and it’s complete focus is on development and economy. Unfortunately MIC can’t be developed overnight and I don’t see any changes in our strategy in foreseeable future.

The biggest strength of US is it’s ability to attract the best talents from all over the world. As long as they maintain that it will remain a super power. Also US will never be alone. No matter how much Europeans hate US, they will still stick together. After all white supremacy does matter.

China’s bigggest issue is they do everything in excess. Whether it’s population control, infrastructure development or pseudo colonization by BRI. They should have moderated the pace at some point. Now they are riding a tiger. Let’s see how it ends.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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That will not happen. All 3 will exist as big economic super powers from 2035 to 2060. India will not be a military super power for next 25 years. We just don’t have the inclination towards that. Current government is the best one we ever got and it’s complete focus is on development and economy. Unfortunately MIC can’t be developed overnight and I don’t see any changes in our strategy in foreseeable future.

The biggest strength of US is it’s ability to attract the best talents from all over the world. As long as they maintain that it will remain a super power. Also US will never be alone. No matter how much Europeans hate US, they will still stick together. After all white supremacy does matter.

You are looking at the current situation and extrapolating that to the future as well. The future is not going to be anything like that. Considering a 2050+ timeline, the greatest threat to the world is not climate change, but population decline. India is going to add 300 million people over the next 20 years. So all the brains are here. Now, if 100k a year decide to immigrate to the US, that's fine, but they are unlikely to be the cream of the crop because wealth and lifestyle would have changed enough to duplicate Western standards of living in Indian cities by then. So most of those 300 million will stay in India.

Otoh, China is going down the drain already, they are going to lose 300 million people by 2050 and they are way too averse to immigration to make up for it. Even if they want to make up for it, they can't just bring in 300 milion foreigners, their govt system will collapse. Whereas the West is busy changing their social fabric via both immigration and wokeness. Yeah, the US is set to have 400 million people by 2050, but that doesn't compare very well with India's 1.7 billion people, alongside another 2 billion people we will have significant market control over, Africa and ASEAN.

Furthermore, for the first time in human history, energy will be produced in a factory on a large scale, and it will become the prime mover of the world. And India will be the largest producer and supplier of this energy. So global energy markets will largely be controlled by India. The West with its exhorbitant costs and the Chinese with a declining population won't be able to compete. Plus fuel will be dirt cheap in India, like it is in the ME today.

India's $20T economy in 2040 won't be the same as America's $30T economy. And India's $40T economy in 2050 won't be the same as America's $40T economy. Labour costs in the US and China will be insanely high, a large chunk of the population will ghettoise and will sit around jobless while India transitions into an advanced economy. The thing is the EU, Japan and SoKo with their declining populations are yet to experience competition. Once competition pops up, they will disappear.

Considering India's rising population, major energy producer status and control over other large markets, it's very, very likely that large companies will shift base to India. The choice will be simple, either move to the main market with surplus labour or get killed by the "protected" competition coming out of India. You think India can't do its own CHIPS Act in pretty much every sector?

China’s bigggest issue is they do everything in excess. Whether it’s population control, infrastructure development or pseudo colonization by BRI. They should have moderated the pace at some point. Now they are riding a tiger. Let’s see how it ends.

The West is committing to the same excess when it comes to immigration.

The number of murders in the US is the same as that of India, and this is with India having 4 times the population that's also very poor. And it's rising in the US whereas it's falling in India. That's not a good situation to be in. The US is definitely no longer a place to raise kids in. So its ability to absorb cream of the crop migrants is lower than its ability to absorb all the ghetto zombies that are bringing in more drugs and crime.

To make matters worse, feminism has ensured that at least 50% of the women in the US will be childless by 2030 and they are yet to consider this in their population metrics. Recall that ridiculous advice Biden gave to that girl, telling her to have kids only after 30? Yeah, that's a recipe for disaster. And we already know that most children in the US are now growing up without fathers, so that's already a deadend for these children.

A major advantage India has is we are culturally homogenous, or at least we are more tolerant of different cultures. And our population is so big that regular amounts of immigration will not affect us as much as it does in the US. Yeah, we have immigration from BD, but they are culturally similar to us, unlike Muslims from the ME or Africa.

Betting on India's future is like betting on the winning horse. We are going back to the past, where we controlled significant chunks of the global market. China had the potential to be in a close second place, but they screwed up royally. And America simply lacks the population. Both are practically guaranteed to go into a decline and this will become visible by 2030 or so.

On even larger timescales, like 50 or 100 years, India will retain the advantage.
 

Rajput Lion

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Sep 23, 2022
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India
You are looking at the current situation and extrapolating that to the future as well. The future is not going to be anything like that. Considering a 2050+ timeline, the greatest threat to the world is not climate change, but population decline. India is going to add 300 million people over the next 20 years. So all the brains are here. Now, if 100k a year decide to immigrate to the US, that's fine, but they are unlikely to be the cream of the crop because wealth and lifestyle would have changed enough to duplicate Western standards of living in Indian cities by then. So most of those 300 million will stay in India.

Otoh, China is going down the drain already, they are going to lose 300 million people by 2050 and they are way too averse to immigration to make up for it. Even if they want to make up for it, they can't just bring in 300 milion foreigners, their govt system will collapse. Whereas the West is busy changing their social fabric via both immigration and wokeness. Yeah, the US is set to have 400 million people by 2050, but that doesn't compare very well with India's 1.7 billion people, alongside another 2 billion people we will have significant market control over, Africa and ASEAN.

Furthermore, for the first time in human history, energy will be produced in a factory on a large scale, and it will become the prime mover of the world. And India will be the largest producer and supplier of this energy. So global energy markets will largely be controlled by India. The West with its exhorbitant costs and the Chinese with a declining population won't be able to compete. Plus fuel will be dirt cheap in India, like it is in the ME today.

India's $20T economy in 2040 won't be the same as America's $30T economy. And India's $40T economy in 2050 won't be the same as America's $40T economy. Labour costs in the US and China will be insanely high, a large chunk of the population will ghettoise and will sit around jobless while India transitions into an advanced economy. The thing is the EU, Japan and SoKo with their declining populations are yet to experience competition. Once competition pops up, they will disappear.

Considering India's rising population, major energy producer status and control over other large markets, it's very, very likely that large companies will shift base to India. The choice will be simple, either move to the main market with surplus labour or get killed by the "protected" competition coming out of India. You think India can't do its own CHIPS Act in pretty much every sector?



The West is committing to the same excess when it comes to immigration.

The number of murders in the US is the same as that of India, and this is with India having 4 times the population that's also very poor. And it's rising in the US whereas it's falling in India. That's not a good situation to be in. The US is definitely no longer a place to raise kids in. So its ability to absorb cream of the crop migrants is lower than its ability to absorb all the ghetto zombies that are bringing in more drugs and crime.

To make matters worse, feminism has ensured that at least 50% of the women in the US will be childless by 2030 and they are yet to consider this in their population metrics. Recall that ridiculous advice Biden gave to that girl, telling her to have kids only after 30? Yeah, that's a recipe for disaster. And we already know that most children in the US are now growing up without fathers, so that's already a deadend for these children.

A major advantage India has is we are culturally homogenous, or at least we are more tolerant of different cultures. And our population is so big that regular amounts of immigration will not affect us as much as it does in the US. Yeah, we have immigration from BD, but they are culturally similar to us, unlike Muslims from the ME or Africa.

Betting on India's future is like betting on the winning horse. We are going back to the past, where we controlled significant chunks of the global market. China had the potential to be in a close second place, but they screwed up royally. And America simply lacks the population. Both are practically guaranteed to go into a decline and this will become visible by 2030 or so.

On even larger timescales, like 50 or 100 years, India will retain the advantage.
This is an excellent post and analysis(y). To add to it, I would say that migration of Indian diaspora towards US and other developed countries is also to our benefit.


Look how they are countering anti-India elements in US/AUS/UK/Canada. The future belongs to India, well said.
 
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randomradio

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Interesting bit about immigration into the US.


It claims that the US GDP will be $37T with current levels of immigration, but $47T if they double immigration. That would mean instead of 400 million, they will have almost 500 million by 2050.

Seems to favour the Democrats, but that's besides the point.
 
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randomradio

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This is an excellent post and analysis(y). To add to it, I would say that migration of Indian diaspora towards US and other developed countries is also to our benefit.


Look how they are countering anti-India elements in US/AUS/UK/Canada. The future belongs to India, well said.

Good point. I forgot to add that the Indian diaspora will play a significant political role in the West as their numbers increase. The way it works, migrant Indians concentrate in the biggest urban centers and will slowly become a major votebank in the most important areas of the US and Europe. Whereas Americans will not have the same level of local power in Indian politics, and definitely not the Chinese either. And if China is compelled to absorb immigrants, they will be forced to include a large number of Indians, 'cause the alternative is Muslim migrants from Africa and SE Asia, which they detest. Then, in time, the population of Indians in China will also rise in the post-2050 world.
 
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_Anonymous_

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IMG_20230329_041913.jpg


Upar viraajmaan dono yugapurushon ko mera koti koti dandavat pranaam apna beshkimti raay vyakth karke, saare thread ki shobha badhakar use manoranjan ka ek zariya banane ke liye!

🙏🙏🙏
 
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jetray

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Mar 15, 2018
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India
that the Indian diaspora will play a significant political role in the West as their numbers increase.
:ROFLMAO: , strong koolaid you are drinking there. some time back a guy from US came and warned of severe consequences.
The so called Indian diaspora will look after their own interests not India's. Probably some one should remind you that Indians helped british rule India and you are expecting too much from them.

This is an excellent post and analysis(y). To add to it, I would say that migration of Indian diaspora towards US and other developed countries is also to our benefit.
really ? how is brain drain and wealth leaving the country helpful to the country ? can you please explain.
Look how they are countering anti-India elements in US/AUS/UK/Canada. The future belongs to India, well said.
Motley crowd waving the flag will do nothing other than waving the flags, by the way they not Indian diaspora but Indian expatriates. Once they become citizens there then there wont be any flag waving but more of a finger pointing.
Interesting bit about immigration into the US.


It claims that the US GDP will be $37T with current levels of immigration, but $47T if they double immigration. That would mean instead of 400 million, they will have almost 500 million by 2050.

Seems to favour the Democrats, but that's besides the point.
yes if the inflation continues to rise and countries start dumping dollar then $47T is a possibility with or without migration.
 
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jetray

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India is going to add 300 million people over the next 20 years. So all the brains are here.
too much extra strong koolaid :ROFLMAO: ,
so you are saying if we add 300 million more cows to the already congested jungle , we can become more strong & smart? quantity has a quality of its own?
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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:ROFLMAO: , strong koolaid you are drinking there. some time back a guy from US came and warned of severe consequences.
The so called Indian diaspora will look after their own interests not India's. Probably some one should remind you that Indians helped british rule India and you are expecting too much from them.

I'm not talking about US-born citizens, just 1st gen Indian-born migrants among the people going today and over the next 15 years, which will give us a 25 to 30-year advantage. Beyond that, as long as humanity has not killed itself, it doesn't matter. India's GDP would have doubled, tripled and quadrupled the US GDP after the 2050s, moving closer to the 2100s, when India will still have over a billion people.

It doesn't matter who helped who in the past, people coverge to where power accumulates. It's the flow that matters, not who was part of that flow in the past. All the British rulers and their servants are dead and gone, they are irrelevant to India's future, just like how Chenghiz Khan and his followers are irrelevant to the future of both Russia and China.

Energy production is labour intensive, and we are the only country large enough to produce power cheaply and scale up massively. 1.7 billion is simply too much for others to compete.
 
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_Anonymous_

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I mean I don't think reputed TTs or analysts or even governments think in terms of 50 or 100 yrs. They may plan for certain sectors on a 5 or 10 yr basis which can be extended on a case to case basis to 15 or maybe 20 yrs but this is a very rare occurrence. Here this guy's forecasting for 5-10 decades ahead.

I think I can see where all that dark triad + tetrad theories came from. I used to think RST is an incurable optimist sometimes bordering on the insane in terms of optimism. This has gone beyond that as I feared would happen one fine day . The person is absolutely schizoid. He needs help.
 
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Bali78

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You are looking at the current situation and extrapolating that to the future as well. The future is not going to be anything like that. Considering a 2050+ timeline, the greatest threat to the world is not climate change, but population decline. India is going to add 300 million people over the next 20 years. So all the brains are here. Now, if 100k a year decide to immigrate to the US, that's fine, but they are unlikely to be the cream of the crop because wealth and lifestyle would have changed enough to duplicate Western standards of living in Indian cities by then. So most of those 300 million will stay in India.
Just number of people doesn't mean much. We were 1 billion by 2001. What was our condition then?

US has 330 million people and out of that only top 1-2 % drive the economy. Rest 98% don't matter much. Currently a big chunk of that 2% are immigrants from India, China, Iran , Korea and Europe. Though lately immigrant numbers from Korea and China is coming down. These are the best brains of the world and without them Silicon Valley could not have generated the trillions of $ it did in last 15-20 years. In spite of having 330 million people, US is not able to generate enough talented skilled human resources and that gap is filled by immigrants.

So if we loose 100k of our best brains every year, it will be disastrous for India's innovation. Do you know core team of most critical projects are 10-30 people? When it comes to innovation quality matters, not quantity.
 
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Bali78

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To add to it, I would say that migration of Indian diaspora towards US and other developed countries is also to our benefit.


Look how they are countering anti-India elements in US/AUS/UK/Canada. The future belongs to India, well said.
That's a disastrous analysis. Apart from few thousand dollars a year, what benefits India got from people like me?

We studied in India(at tax payers expense), acquired critical skills and now burning our a$$ off to generate trillions for USA?

On the other hand, if I choose to come back, can I utilize my skill set? Answer is hell NO. India has to create conducive work environment to stop this brain drain!!
 
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