India vs China - War Gaming Scenarios : Related News , Updates , Discussions & Analysis .

[Herciv]

To explain you diffently every object emit light only because they do not have a 0°Kelvin temperature. The only strategy then is to behave in hiding yourself thanks to the background.
But this is more feasible when your backround is the earth (between 0°C and 30 °C) than when your backround is the space (near 0°Kelvin).

 

[randomradio]

You said that Growlers were not necessary for day 1 enemy penetration. But here USAF top general calls their own 'Growler Version' EC-37 as an important war tool 'along side' F-35, against peer enemy.

So it means that EA/EW is still considered utmost important(in fact the article says most important, even more so than VLO!) as per USAF. That was my point. Now whether it's jamming C3I or just doing brute noise jamming depends upon its mission as it can do both.

The argument being made here is for political reasons, for pushing the program forward.

And it's for attacking communications, at best L band radars. It cannot be used to defeat fighters and SAMs.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Brahmos is expensive. We need an iskander clone. Also we need to produce around 10000 pralays and around 40000 prahaars if we want to fight a sustained 2 front war for a month.
Not to forget nirbhay's.

Agree with above assessment. But the cost of Brahmos has gone down as production has increased and more Russian items on it are replaced by desi ones.

What's the current cost of Brahmos @marich01 ? Any idea!

 

[Rajput Lion]

To explain you diffently every object emit light only because they do not have a 0°Kelvin temperature. The only strategy then is to behave in hiding yourself thanks to the background.
But this is more feasible when your backround is the earth (between 0°C and 30 °C) than when your backround is the space (near 0°Kelvin).

According to @Picdelamirand-oil our Indian Rafale likely has got QWIP based IRST. Very soon, our Su-30MKI will get QWIP based IRST too(prototype already under lab testing). Our chance of defeating the Chinese will increase with both of them having IRST that can look and track targets in Far Infrared.

J-20/J-16/J-10 won't be able to hide and won't outrun Meteor and Astra 3 as well.

 

[Herciv]

According to @Picdelamirand-oil our Indian Rafale likely has got QWIP based IRST. Very soon, our Su-30MKI will get QWIP based IRST too(prototype already under lab testing). Our chance of defeating the Chinese will increase with both of them having IRST that can look and track targets in Far Infrared.

J-20/J-16/J-10 won't be able to hide and won't outrun Meteor and Astra 3 as well.

Yes and I agree with that. But what make the rafale less sensible to chinese QWIP is that it can better disperse its heat (not keeping the heat), it is smaller that a J-20 (teh can detect and classify sooner), it can fly efficiently at very low level (and then benefit from a good backround).
5 gen don't like very low level because it is more difficult to deal with heat genetation at this altitude.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Looks like the MoD / GoIs unofficial spokesperson & cheer leader is sounding the alarm bells too . Towards the end of the program he's literally used a phrase like I pray that .....

 

[Rajput Lion]

If we can't achieve air superiority over PLAAF then IAF should work towards air denial and allow IA to destroy the Chinese. It's not all doom and gloom for us like everyone is projecting.

 

[_Anonymous_]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633811067557277696

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633915736560226309

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633950592031662080

 

[Bali78]

Looks like the MoD / GoIs unofficial spokesperson & cheer leader is sounding the alarm bells too . Towards the end of the program he's literally used a phrase like I pray that .....

We can budget 10 lakh crores I.e. 128 billion usd for infrastructure for 2023, but can’t spend one tenth of that for IAF?? What exactly Modiji is thinking?

 

[Rajput Lion]

In our last discussion, I said this to @randomradio:

Logistics. IAF can muster much more versus PLAAF than what USAF can.

Now as per a latest article:

Logistics and sustainment in ‘long wars’ with a peer adversary have again caught the imagination of military planners. This possibly indicates the US is preparing to clash with China in the Western Pacific.


Long acknowledged its inability to resupply its ships while China can comfortably keep fighting from the home front, US military commentators have raised this weakness while academics do not predict a favorable outcome for the US.

A famous statement by former USN Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Admiral Gary Roughhead before the House Armed Services Committee in June 2020 went around on Twitter recently.
while China can comfortably keep fighting from the home front, US military commentators have raised this weakness while academics do not predict a favorable outcome for the US.A famous statement by former USN Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Admiral Gary Roughhead before the House Armed Services Committee in June 2020 went around on Twitter recently.

Roughhead himself was quoting a People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) Admiral who had admitted to him that the “(USN’s) logistics ships were a primary target (for the Chinese)…because if he can take out logistics, he takes out the lifeblood of the fighting ships.”

Link: China Can 'Cripple' The US Navy In Western Pacific Exactly Like Ukraine Did To Russia In Kherson: Analysis

On the contrary, Chinese are going to struggle against India in an aerial or ground battle since India holds the logistics advantage against PLA/AF/N.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Either he isn't getting proper advice from IAF & other security planners or they know something we don't. Prima facie the IAF being in deep waters has a cascading effect on all operations on the LAC & that's exactly what it looks like from out here. At the end of the day they know better.

We can budget 10 lakh crores I.e. 128 billion usd for infrastructure for 2023, but can’t spend one tenth of that for IAF?? What exactly Modiji is thinking?

 

[_Anonymous_]

 

[_Anonymous_]

India, U.S. on radar as China plans to control Arabian Sea from 3 naval bases - The Sunday Guardian Live

 

[Bali78]

Either he isn't getting proper advice from IAF & other security planners or they know something we don't. Prima facie the IAF being in deep waters has a cascading effect on all operations on the LAC & that's exactly what it looks like from out here. At the end of the day they know better.

I hope so, but not so sure considering the Chinese surprise at Ladakh.

 

[_Anonymous_]

I hope so, but not so sure considering the Chinese surprise at Ladakh.

Ladakh was nearly 3 yrs ago. What about y'days news about the US sharing information with India about the Chinese planning a similar stunt in Tawang last December?

Our ISR systems particularly our space based assets are woefully inadequate. To make matters worse there seems to be no urgency in the CDS to activate the Space Command & ISRO itself has been rather insipid in the last few yrs.

Apparently the latter is focusing more on Gaganyaan & our space voyage which has already been delayed considerably with no future road map on where do we go after that & what are we supposed to achieve with this one mission. ISRO is supposed to achieve all this with their limited staff & shoestring budget.

A few ex generals & ex senior officials of sister services have expressed scepticism in polite words in their assessment of our chances against China claiming our overall doctrine still remains that of deterring thru denial with secondary retaliatory capabilities that too inadequate instead of upping their game & discarding their doctrine of deterrence going in for a massive offensive capabilities within the constraints of what our finances afford us. Have posted the links earlier on in this thread & on other threads in the past 3-4 months as well.

 

[_Anonymous_]

 

[Bali78]

He is spot on. Chinese are shit scared of India’s rise.

Forget about Chinese government, my Chinese friends closely watch Modi. I was surprised how much they know what Modi is doing compared to most Indians know. They know what Indians are capable of and Modi is the leader who can wake up the sleeping giant.

 

[_Anonymous_]

India has risen in Chinese level of concern ( whatever it's supposed to mean ) .

China's armed forces modernization & reorganization is due to be fully accomplished by 2035 where they would be on par with the US as per their estimation .

However in the past few years they've divided that plan into near medium & long term , wherein the near & medium timeframe is set for 2027 to build up capacity & 2035 for the final outcome. This is mostly but not completely related to their amphibious war fighting capabilities.

The interviewee cautions us that capacity building should not be confused for a certainty that these would be employed in prosecution of one's political goals immediately on accomplishment of their near medium & long term plans. Having understood that I personally wonder what else are those capacities being built for.

A very illuminating discussion nonetheless !

Hope RST takes note as he's been as shrill as a banshee a few months ago that China was totally battle ready AS OF TODAY to prosecute it's plans across it's various borders.

Does that mean we can take it easy for the rest of this decade ? Hell , no ! But the likelihood of them undertaking their campaigns post 2027-28 is much higher .

In the light of these revelations , I think it's gradually becoming clear why US precipitated the crisis in Ukraine . Had they not done this there's a good chance Russia would be doing exactly the same to the US when China undertook it's invasion of Taiwan as the US is now doing to Russia in Ukraine.

Or they could've opened up a front in Europe while the US was distracted with Taiwan. All this could've been avoided had they respected Russia's concerns since the 90's & not expanded NATO but I guess old habits die hard plus the US always viewed the EU as a potential competitor which in due course would've charted an independent path which wouldn't be to the US's liking .

Hence the present crisis which is essentially killing not one or 2 but 3 birds with one stone , the 3rd being denying China a walk over by degrading Russia's war waging capacities today which otherwise would probably have helped both of them to undertake their individual campaigns in tandem throwing the whole world into chaos in the future .

Of course I could be reading too much into all this & inspired by OG & Fake storyteller doing my own story telling.

 

[Lolwa]

According to @Picdelamirand-oil our Indian Rafale likely has got QWIP based IRST. Very soon, our Su-30MKI will get QWIP based IRST too(prototype already under lab testing). Our chance of defeating the Chinese will increase with both of them having IRST that can look and track targets in Far Infrared.

J-20/J-16/J-10 won't be able to hide and won't outrun Meteor and Astra 3 as well.

They need to make a podded version of the irst for the tejas mk1 and Mirages. Something like this

And Astra ir needs to be inducted fast and needs to upgraded to r-27EM ranges.

 

[Rajput Lion]

They need to make a podded version of the irst for the tejas mk1 and Mirages. Something like this View attachment 27073
And Astra ir needs to be inducted fast and needs to upgraded to r-27EM ranges.

Few years back, there were some rumours about Leonardo Skyward-NG IRST pods for Tejas MK1A. Lets see if we go for it or not!

Astra-IR is unfortunately 4/5 years minimum away from induction. Astra 2 and 3 should become operational soon. Anyways, we are going for ASRAAM Block-6 which is a kickass WVR missile that has near BVR speed and range. Until Astra IR(actually I want twin-pulse version of this) becomes operational both MKI and MK1A will use it as their primary WVR missile. Also with LOAL capability they should be able to engage targets using passive cuing from at least 50kms away which is very good.

R-27T/ET despite all the hype are LOBL missiles. Which means their seeker first needs to acquire the target to get the firing permission. It is totally obsolete now.