India - Pakistan Standoff 2019

_Anonymous_

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3 parachutes is true but this is not f16. Read the article there is video of this part, 360 degree video showing Indian flag on it and no it is not digitally morphed.
Falcon vs Bison: Verifying a MiG-21 Wreck - bellingcat

Also this pic:
View attachment 5019

Except that drop tank we have not found anything conclusive of f16 in terms of wreckage, even that drop tank was found near Mig 21 which makes it strange, but none of it means that f16 was not shot down. We may have to wait for sometime to get a clearer view of both f16 and damage at Balakot.
Frankly, two things stand out in both - the photographs & videos doing the rounds in the virtual world on both the Balakote strikes & the downing on the F-16.

There's no conclusive evidence to prove either. What we are doing is merely indulging in hair splitting. However, in jurisprudence, there's something known as circumstantial evidence. The controversial pictures of the F-16 drop tanks at the site of the MiG 21 debris can possibly indicate that the debris of both the FAs were collected together at one site awaiting final disposal. I can't think of anything else to explain the anomaly.

Similarly, the fact that till 24-48 hours ago the GoP / PS hadn't permitted independent verification of the hill top at Balakote by neutral international media indicates there's much more to their narrative than meets the eye.

Unless, we come across definitive evidence in the public domain through voluntary disclosure, sharp investigative journalism , authoritative third party sources viz foreign governments & in the absence of any such evidence from the GoI, the Pakistani narrative will prevail only in the public domain sans much credibility given their previous track record.

As of now, the evidence in the public domain to prove our points is both incomplete & inconclusive.
 

BlackOpsIndia

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So basically your whole argument is based on paint, right?? that's hilarious
3 parachutes & Serial number confirmation - which is better tangible proof its not Mig 21 is pushed as not evidence.
Have you considered, if PAF was considering a raid in India, they might have thought to paint the birds with Indian Flag to avoid easy visual identification in our airspace

My Maruti car has a Merc logo - gosh I must be rich:LOL::ROFLMAO:
Seriously? Now we identify fighter jets that moves at around 500+km/hr by flag painted on upper side of wings!!

How will you identify or even see that flag from ground Genius! Or from a cockpit tens of km away? You think they are equipped with super zoom cameras with image processing to identify friend or foes!

And after 10 replies you still haven't read the article yet and exposing yourself badly here.
 
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He is not saying f16 was not shot but the wreckage that is shown is not of f16 and that is correct, that serial number thing is quite a coincidence as the same photo from opposite side shows it as wreckage of Mig 21.
Completely agree. That part of wreckage has our fin flash on the opposite side. Thats our bird. (even I used to think other wise before)
 
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Seriously? Now we identify fighter jets that moves at around 500+km/hr by flag painted on upper side of wings!!

How will you identify or even see that flag from ground Genius! Or from a cockpit tens of km away? You think they are equipped with super zoom cameras with image processing to identify friend or foes!

And after 10 replies you still haven't read the article yet and exposing yourself badly here.
Clearly u havent seen Russian tactics of inflated Tanks, its call misdirection, Its not for long range Awacs but for closer ground observers or in visual range time buying or confusion _ the only one exposing is you my friend - who is only going by Paint & completely & deliberately ignoring 3 parachutes & Serial number confirmation from F16 official site
 

Nikhil

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That's a mig 21 wreckage period. what we are not sure about is the drop tank....instead of bickering here someone need to find the whereabouts of this guy.
D1Z3brcUcAAk9rV.jpeg

D1Z3bClU4AAuf_F.jpeg


Pakistani claiming he is in US for training which seems like a excuse, probably getting treatment or he is dead.
 

BlackOpsIndia

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Clearly u havent seen Russian tactics of inflated Tanks, its call misdirection, Its not for long range Awacs but for closer ground observers or in visual range time buying or confusion
You are confusing radars with cameras. There is a difference between two and they do not work on same principle. A fighter jet on sortie especially when in enemy territory will never be in your field view long enough to see the flag on wings. You are lucky if you can visually identify the type of platform forget reading the serial number or painted flag. Within visual range is still far, far enough for naked eyes.
 
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You are confusing radars with cameras. There is a difference between two and they do not work on same principle. A fighter jet on sortie especially when in enemy territory will never be in your field view long enough to see the flag on wings. You are lucky if you can visually identify the type of platform forget reading the serial number or painted flag. Within visual range is still far, far enough for naked eyes.
U still got nothing on 3 parachutes & serial number confirmation from F16 official site. u can harp as much on paint
Now where is my Basanti car - originally from Maruti with Merc logo
 

vstol Jockey

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Can anyone tell me if the forward deployment of Pak forces an advantage for them or a trap?
Think, think and think again in the backdrop of IBGs. We have forced them to move all their formations forward including logistics and ammo dumps. That has broght them in the range of our tactical weapons. Their Air Force has no depth like we have nor do their aircraft have the kind of long legs. Most of their HVTs like tankers and AWACs will not survive even first four hours of full war. What after that?
In another forum I had written a detailed write up on CSD when @Hellfire of that forum asked me to go quite. Every possible war scenario including nukes has been catered for in CSD. India has choices. Pakistan has none. What we needed was a political leadership which cud call the bluff of Pakistan and we have one such leadership now.
What I see from now on is that we will make Pakistan bleed tons of litres of blood for every drop that we shed including challenging them for direct confrontation. This will reverse the policy of death by thousand cuts. They will have to now deal with an India which will impose its will and resolve across the borders of its enemies. We will now overwhelm the TNWs with sheer conventional advantage of the kind which makes use of TNWs useless against our advancing columns and gives us the freedom to escalate to complete demolision of Pakistan using either nukes or conventional forces.
I am a very big fan of mathematics and such calculations for creating a battle picture. I love Lanchesters equations because very few Army officers can actually make out the mathematics behind those equations. Those equations can be extended to even forces dissimilar like conventional and nuke armed. My calculations show that Pakistan will not be able to use its TNWs as they will not have the effect which they desire for want of depth and their forward deployment. It will be a case in which we may have a very strong and intense battle in first 24hrs between land forces followed by desertions by enemy and sudden and complete capitulation all across the border.
I can prove my theory using Lanchesters laws even today.
 
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Can anyone tell me if the forward deployment of Pak forces an advantage for them or a trap?
Think, think and think again in the backdrop of IBGs. We have forced them to move all their formations forward including logistics and ammo dumps. That has broght them in the range of our tactical weapons. Their Air Force has no depth like we have nor do their aircraft have the kind of long legs. Most of their HVTs like tankers and AWACs will not survive even first four hours of full war. What after that?
In another forum I had written a detailed write up on CSD when @Hellfire of that forum asked me to go quite. Every possible war scenario including nukes has been catered for in CSD. India has choices. Pakistan has none. What we needed was a political leadership which cud call the bluff of Pakistan and we have one such leadership now.
What I see from now on is that we will make Pakistan bleed tons of litres of blood for every drop that we shed including challenging them for direct confrontation. This will reverse the policy of death by thousand cuts. They will have to now deal with an India which will impose its will and resolve across the borders of its enemies. We will now overwhelm the TNWs with sheer conventional advantage of the kind which makes use of TNWs useless against our advancing columns and gives us the freedom to escalate to complete demolision of Pakistan using either nukes or conventional forces.
I am a very big fan of mathematics and such calculations for creating a battle picture. I love Lanchesters equations because very few Army officers can actually make out the mathematics behind those equations. Those equations can be extended to even forces dissimilar like conventional and nuke armed. My calculations show that Pakistan will not be able to use its TNWs as they will not have the effect which they desire for want of depth and their forward deployment. It will be a case in which we may have a very strong and intense battle in first 24hrs between land forces followed by desertions by enemy and sudden and complete capitulation all across the border.
I can prove my theory using Lanchesters laws even today.
Buddy its is their intention of frequent coming close to LOC & putting IAF in a tizzy, its a good tactics to deploy them forward. And buy some international pressure on India/Pak to defuse.
IF its war they lose - its obvious they dont intent to go to war & they dont expect India will go either. So it works for them.
Thats my views,
Now question is can we burn the Pak in going in for spares overdrive, by forcing a increase in there sorties rate, to add cost to there fragile economy? and how? knowing there airspace is closed & spares wont be flying in
 
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From all the wreck pictures so far, the Pakistanis probably had the same team cleaning up the debris of both the downed jets and in their rush to show the downed Indian jet pictures did not realize that the atleast some of these parts are from their own downed jet. Thats the only explanation of some F16 parts photos being paraded as Mig 21 photos. There is absolutely no way to judge that the serial number part photos and the rest of the mangled remains shown in that particular photo came from the same jet. I think atleast some of the wreckage photos have parts of both jets.
 
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Can anyone tell me if the forward deployment of Pak forces an advantage for them or a trap?
Think, think and think again in the backdrop of IBGs. We have forced them to move all their formations forward including logistics and ammo dumps. That has broght them in the range of our tactical weapons. Their Air Force has no depth like we have nor do their aircraft have the kind of long legs. Most of their HVTs like tankers and AWACs will not survive even first four hours of full war. What after that?
In another forum I had written a detailed write up on CSD when @Hellfire of that forum asked me to go quite. Every possible war scenario including nukes has been catered for in CSD. India has choices. Pakistan has none. What we needed was a political leadership which cud call the bluff of Pakistan and we have one such leadership now.
What I see from now on is that we will make Pakistan bleed tons of litres of blood for every drop that we shed including challenging them for direct confrontation. This will reverse the policy of death by thousand cuts. They will have to now deal with an India which will impose its will and resolve across the borders of its enemies. We will now overwhelm the TNWs with sheer conventional advantage of the kind which makes use of TNWs useless against our advancing columns and gives us the freedom to escalate to complete demolision of Pakistan using either nukes or conventional forces.
I am a very big fan of mathematics and such calculations for creating a battle picture. I love Lanchesters equations because very few Army officers can actually make out the mathematics behind those equations. Those equations can be extended to even forces dissimilar like conventional and nuke armed. My calculations show that Pakistan will not be able to use its TNWs as they will not have the effect which they desire for want of depth and their forward deployment. It will be a case in which we may have a very strong and intense battle in first 24hrs between land forces followed by desertions by enemy and sudden and complete capitulation all across the border.
I can prove my theory using Lanchesters laws even today.
Pakistan Deploys Entire F-16 Squadron on Indian Border - Report
 

Austerlitz

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What is preventing us from doing away with 2003 ceasefire altogether and resorting to all out heavy artillery bombardment of neelum valley and interdicting its road?Thats what brought pak begging for a ceasefire in 2003.I suppose this option would become more attractive in next few years when our heavy arty stocks rise.
 
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What is preventing us from doing away with 2003 ceasefire altogether and resorting to all out heavy artillery bombardment of neelum valley and interdicting its road?Thats what brought pak begging for a ceasefire in 2003.I suppose this option would become more attractive in next few years when our heavy arty stocks rise.
general elections
 

randomradio

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Which part of - The serial number of the downed PAF F16 clearly shows : “80269” is not visible & verifiable from F-16 site, for you as shown?
Have seen a mig 21 up and close.... oh yeah on a static display.... See the parts and its condition closely.... Unless HAL restarted the production of mig 21.... the pic cant be of mig 21 parts....
The crashed jet is that of the Mig-21. Let's move on.
 

Falcon

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The problem is that too many people are tweeting too many iterations as per what they understood. It is best to move on from this because either the exact occurrence will come forth (virtually impossible but seeing that we are in elections mode, one never knows) or we will, as @Shajida Khan noted, come to know later on.

But specifically to the photograph, I do not see any possible source of shadow for the effect as highlighted. Yet, I can give arguments to the same being two circular openings for establishing a smokestack in case of Kerosene bukhari /kitchenette. It can also be, as claimed by the poster, since we have seen the walls of the compound as alleged in Reuters photograph and I had annotated the specific observations earlier.
 
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