How does Chinese flankers fare against our Su-30 MKI ?

KUNAL BISWAS

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Don't get me wrong folks, but SU30MKI is present form is not ready to take on J16, may be with J11s ..

 

Lolwa

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View attachment 20755

Some points can be countered but majority this USAF veteran speaks is true..
Partially but we don't know how capable Chinese AESA is. From what I've seen or read they have similar performance levels to elm 2052 but with lesser reliability so the uttam will match the Chinese AESA most likely.
In terms of fratricide. Indian AD is pretty dense I don't think it's anything to be blamed on the fighter pilots. The fratricide angle is a case of incompetence rather than lack of system coherence.
The indian mki's do have an upgrade path to AESA's. Russians can gives us the fga-50 or a downgraded byelka. We ourselves have the uttam and elm 2052 which would match Russian aesa performance most likely. The problem is we need to pursue them fast.
 
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randomradio

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While it's true that long range AAMs come with its own share of problems, but it's also true that all air forces chase after it. Anyway long range AAMs have a lot of energy at shorter ranges, particularly the Meteor.

MKI also has an Israeli ECM and an Indian one is also in the works. While the Russian ECM affects performance, the aircraft will also be carrying bombs along with it, so it's not all that bad.

Regardless, the MKI needs a significant upgrade in terms of radar, comm and EW suite. At least the comm and EW suite are happening.

It's true that we lack numbers, it's a very big weakness. We were supposed to have had 80-100 Rafales by now, not merely 36. So that's our fault. The failure to upgrade the Jaguar with a new engine has also come back to bite us. And of course there's the wonderfully long delay with the LCA Mk2.

Anyway all of this is spilt milk. Along with the fact that the MKI cannot reasonably fight the J-16 and J-10 without an upgrade, let alone the J-20.
 

randomradio

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Partially but we don't know how capable Chinese AESA is. From what I've seen or read they have similar performance levels to elm 2052 but with lesser reliability so the uttam will match the Chinese AESA most likely.

In terms of hardware, they are pretty much on par with the West. I mean even DRDO is running around claiming Uttam is better than the EL/M 2052 and RBE-2AA. So why wouldn't that apply to the Chinese radars too? Software's a different cup of tea.

In terms of fratricide. Indian AD is pretty dense I don't think it's anything to be blamed on the fighter pilots. The fratricide angle is a case of incompetence rather than lack of system coherence.

The fratricide was due to failure of SOPs, not due to technology. In a dangerous situation, the helicopter was flying with its IFF switched off and the SAM batteries took the call on their own, without completing SOPs. Colossal amounts of human error on all sides.

The indian mki's do have an upgrade path to AESA's. Russians can gives us the fga-50 or a downgraded byelka. We ourselves have the uttam and elm 2052 which would match Russian aesa performance most likely. The problem is we need to pursue them fast.

It's gonna be Russian (NIIP) or Uttam.
 
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KUNAL BISWAS

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Long back i talked about Generation of AESA radar of Chinese R&D at twitter, i am going to re-produce that tweet here :

Chinese have generations in AESA for fighters

First gernation digital,12XX elements,
Second generation has Direct Digital Synthesis,1760 elements,
Third generation has Gallium Nitride based,1856 elements,3D MCM stands for 3D Multi Chip Module with 8 channels and 4 layers.
 
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KUNAL BISWAS

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This AESA is part of J-16 and J20 prototype, to understand the Genration of Chinease AESA look at my previous post..
 

KUNAL BISWAS

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Another thing about J16 is large use of composite unlike SU30MKI which is a metal bird..

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Due to composite air-frame it has better stealth properties just like our Tejas

It also makes it lighter and with more powerful engines has more payload capacity..
 
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STEPHEN COHEN

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What about TVC and HMD ?

They are useful in WVR air combat

For BVR , you need a First Look , First Shoot Capabilities ie AESA LPI Radar
And a Strong EW suite to evade the incoming BVR AAMs

However We can say that if Su 30 Could Evade Aim 120 C 5 , then they can handle PL 15

Su 30 has been evaluated against All the Top end Fighters like F 15 , F 16 , Rafale and Eurofighter

J 16 is not superior to them
 

TARGET

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Dec 2, 2017
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They are useful in WVR air combat

For BVR , you need a First Look , First Shoot Capabilities ie AESA LPI Radar
And a Strong EW suite to evade the incoming BVR AAMs

However We can say that if Su 30 Could Evade Aim 120 C 5 , then they can handle PL 15

Su 30 has been evaluated against All the Top end Fighters like F 15 , F 16 , Rafale and Eurofighter

J 16 is not superior to them
We will be upgrading with AESA for sure ... For an extra edge against all Chinese Su 27 derivative fighter planes, we have to wait for SFDR-based missiles since in WVR MKI will match with SU35.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

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We will be upgrading with AESA for sure ... For an extra edge against all Chinese Su 27 derivative fighter planes, we have to wait for SFDR-based missiles since in WVR MKI will match with SU35.

Whether AESA will happen or they want to upgrade BARS is still not known

What is known is that DARE has built new HBJ and RWR

Radar upgrade also depends on
Engines , I dont think we will buy AL 41

On Twitter , from whatever discussion I have followed , I understand it will be A BARS upgrade / IBRIS Followed by UTTAM

 
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TARGET

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Whether AESA will happen or they want to upgrade BARS is still not known

What is known is that DARE has built new HBJ and RWR

Radar upgrade also depends on
Engines , I dont think we will buy AL 41

On Twitter , from whatever discussion I have followed , I understand it will be A BARS upgrade / IBRIS Followed by UTTAM

we are not going to upgrade the engine since it's a lengthy process and costs lots of money also any indigenous equipment which is under development will be based on the power capacity of the existing equipment. 1st step of upgradation... SDR integration
 
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KUNAL BISWAS

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What about TVC and HMD ? MKI is going to be upgraded with our indigenous AESA.
MKI has a heavy nose due to it's heavy radar, it's also heavy due to it's metal construction, not sure how it's going to fare with a lighter airframe powered by higer thurst engines, though i belive MKI may have better AoA..

==========

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They developed new HMDS, a copy Striker II from BAE System, We are using Topsight 1 with MKI ..
 
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Sathya

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we are not going to upgrade the engine since it's a lengthy process and costs lots of money also any indigenous equipment which is under development will be based on the power capacity of the existing equipment. 1st step of upgradation... SDR integration
And digital RWR
 

randomradio

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we are not going to upgrade the engine since it's a lengthy process and costs lots of money also any indigenous equipment which is under development will be based on the power capacity of the existing equipment. 1st step of upgradation... SDR integration

It's too late to change the engine for Phase 1 anyway.