How does Chinese flankers fare against our Su-30 MKI ?

Saaho

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Folks while we are at it. Also consider a very pertinent point.

How do Indian Flankers managed, maintained and deployed on orders of Indian Bureaucracy will fare against Chinese flankers by Chinese folks?

Remember, Indian assets are often neglected with critical parts missing in inventory. In the war, the competition is not between just the jets and the pilots but also the deep state which actually controls them and is supposed to support them.

All these threads are worthless without taking this in consideration. It is like saying how a company with an expensive piece of equipment (say a fleet of large laser printers) will fare against another one. Even if you compare their hardware specs and possibly the qualification of their operators, the comparison is of no use unless you look at their leadership, its goals and its decisions. Infact that becomes the major factor rather than which company's printers have how much DPI (1200 vs 1400).
 
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Lolwa

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and we still not fight them right? then some thing must wrong with us. May be we are worst than them or know nothing about them.
Our forces will fight anybody even the Americans point is majority of the Chinese flankers are outdated. If we compare there aircrafts on paper. The 128 j16 and 24 su35 are the only superior aircrafts in the plaaf inventory. The jllb and j11bs might be equivalent or slightly inferior to our su 30 mki. Where they have more advantage is that they already have a running meteor equivalent on their j16's with pl21. So on paper they have around 200 flankers that are equivalent or superior to our flankers. The main advantages being an aesa radar( an insane claim of the j16 aesa having 1760 trm modules) which will make it one of the biggest radar and even superior to the apg 82 of the f15s. So thats that nobody knows what's the performance. But if klj 7a of jf 17 blk3 is to be looked at their aesa tech is not as good as they claim or they might be selling downgraded stuff to the Pakistanis which makes there radar tech superior to even the americans....
 
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jetray

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Our forces will fight anybody even the Americans point is majority of the Chinese flankers are outdated. If we compare there aircrafts on paper. The 128 j16 and 24 su35 are the only superior aircrafts in the plaaf inventory. The jllb and j11bs might be equivalent or slightly inferior to our su 30 mki. Where they have more advantage is that they already have a running meteor equivalent on their j16's with pl21. So on paper they have around 200 flankers that are equivalent or superior to our flankers. The main advantages being an aesa radar( an insane claim of the j16 aesa having 1760 trm modules) which will make it one of the biggest radar and even superior to the apg 82 of the f15s. So thats that nobody knows what's the performance. But if klj 7a of jf 17 blk3 is to be looked at their aesa tech is not as good as they claim or they might be selling downgraded stuff to the Pakistanis which makes there radar tech superior to even the americans....
let me simplify my question can we put up a fight or not? thats what it boils down to , paralysis by analysis is well known problem in India.
 
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randomradio

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Our forces will fight anybody even the Americans point is majority of the Chinese flankers are outdated. If we compare there aircrafts on paper. The 128 j16 and 24 su35 are the only superior aircrafts in the plaaf inventory. The jllb and j11bs might be equivalent or slightly inferior to our su 30 mki. Where they have more advantage is that they already have a running meteor equivalent on their j16's with pl21. So on paper they have around 200 flankers that are equivalent or superior to our flankers. The main advantages being an aesa radar( an insane claim of the j16 aesa having 1760 trm modules) which will make it one of the biggest radar and even superior to the apg 82 of the f15s. So thats that nobody knows what's the performance. But if klj 7a of jf 17 blk3 is to be looked at their aesa tech is not as good as they claim or they might be selling downgraded stuff to the Pakistanis which makes there radar tech superior to even the americans....

You forgot the J-10C, it also has AESA, comes with a long range missile and being introduced in pretty large numbers, at least 40-60 per year. Plus it has a much smaller RCS than our Flanker.

Also, the Chinese claim their AESA radar is superior to the Su-35's Irbis-E. Empty claim or not, we don't know, but the benefit of the doubt can be given to them.
 
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Ankit Kumar

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let me simplify my question can we put up a fight or not? thats what it boils down to , paralysis by analysis is well known problem in India.
Define what do you mean by putting up a fight?

What we can presently do is , if China and Pakistan simultaneously attack in Arunachal, Leh and Valley/Jammu , we will be able to hold off the Pakistani armour advance from their Sialkot type areas where they have advantage, while launching atleast 2 or 3 offensive formations across the IB. All the while we will be able to hold onto two pronged Chinese assault too and go into offensive against Chinese bound shipping in IOR.

All this without another country directly joining our side.

But we will have great number of casualties without much area gain along Tibet. And our public needs to cultivate a gut strong enough to digest that fact and not give up.
 

jetray

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Define what do you mean by putting up a fight?

What we can presently do is , if China and Pakistan simultaneously attack in Arunachal, Leh and Valley/Jammu , we will be able to hold off the Pakistani armour advance from their Sialkot type areas where they have advantage, while launching atleast 2 or 3 offensive formations across the IB. All the while we will be able to hold onto two pronged Chinese assault too and go into offensive against Chinese bound shipping in IOR.

All this without another country directly joining our side.

But we will have great number of casualties without much area gain along Tibet. And our public needs to cultivate a gut strong enough to digest that fact and not give up.
short answer is we cannot put a fight without losing. Either we silently proceed towards improving our capability to win the war or simply accept the fait accompli. Any thing in between is just waste of time.
 
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Lolwa

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You forgot the J-10C, it also has AESA, comes with a long range missile and being introduced in pretty large numbers, at least 40-60 per year. Plus it has a much smaller RCS than our Flanker.

Also, the Chinese claim their AESA radar is superior to the Su-35's Irbis-E. Empty claim or not, we don't know, but the benefit of the doubt can be given to them.
I did not want include the j10 because the thread was for flankers otherwise we will have to face around 500 aesa equipped aircrafts including the j20.
I was reading up on them yesterday and the Chinese claim there pl15 and pl21 are actually superior to their Russian counterparts. If that's true it puts us on a bigger disadvantage. So not only they have superior armour but they also have a superior aircrafts. The only difference now is how much does the training make up for our drawbacks...
 
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randomradio

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I did not want include the j10 because the thread was for flankers otherwise we will have to face around 500 aesa equipped aircrafts including the j20.
I was reading up on them yesterday and the Chinese claim there pl15 and pl21 are actually superior to their Russian counterparts. If that's true it puts us on a bigger disadvantage. So not only they have superior armour but they also have a superior aircrafts. The only difference now is how much does the training make up for our drawbacks...

I've already touched upon the subject in post 4.

The Chinese have a massive missile range advantage with the PL-15. In order to counter it, we need both Derby ER on MKI and Meteor on Rafale. But the Derby is more important today because of the number of Flankers available. Without the upgrade, we shouldn't go to war with China. The Rafale numbers are also obviously too less, and we won't have the minimum numbers necessary until early 2022.

It's primarily due to the lack of Derby ER and Rafales that I've recommended fighting China only in 2022 or preferably 2023. If we go to war before that, then we will suffer unnecessary losses.
 

Lolwa

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let me simplify my question can we put up a fight or not? thats what it boils down to , paralysis by analysis is well known problem in India.
We might actually dominate in the initial phase of the battle. But once the pla soldiers and the pilots get adjusted to the battlefield and create a battle psyche we will start losing due their superior equipment. That is what most people predict. I have a bias because looking at the PLA and I have been watching a lot of state propaganda of the Chinese. The PLA soldiers just look like prepubescent teens and they kind of have an casual air to it. Plus even though the Indian media had those juvenile takes of child emperors and how indisciplined the PLA is they actually might have some credence. The PLA soldiers don't know how to take initiative and are indisciplined and can't their war exercises are more like formalities.
This what a U.S navy pilot said about the plaaf war exercise
I've already touched upon the subject in post 4.

The Chinese have a massive missile range advantage with the PL-15. In order to counter it, we need both Derby ER on MKI and Meteor on Rafale. But the Derby is more important today because of the number of Flankers available. Without the upgrade, we shouldn't go to war with China. The Rafale numbers are also obviously too less, and we won't have the minimum numbers necessary until early 2022.

It's primarily due to the lack of Derby ER and Rafales that I've recommended fighting China only in 2022 or preferably 2023. If we go to war before that, then we will suffer unnecessary losses.
I actually was underestimating Chinese missiles before, I did read upon them. At that time I wasn't taking their claims seriously but now I think they do have tech advantage over us...
 
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Nikhil

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Chinese threat is overblown in my opinion. Let assume they have manage to build and induct an AESA for J 16 and J 10 so what ? are those AESA top of the Line or same generation like there western counterparts or even russian or even Indian Uttam.... don't think so. That's why Chinese keep importing Russian stuff cause they are nowhere close.
there is a reason why Chinese don't show there AESA antenna design & keep it covered or blurred.
as for PL 15...... it's usefulness is only against AWACS , tankers not fighter jet....even there it might fail.
 

HariPrasad

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and we still not fight them right? then some thing must wrong with us. May be we are worst than them or know nothing about them.

If we miss the opportunity to humiliate China by using force, then I will consider this as a lost opportunity. This paper dragon is pinching us all the time. Like the Pakistan follows this thousand cut policy, China follows the Salami slicing. This is the time to do the medicine of both. Pakistan should be punished in pok. Let the world know who is the boss among these emerging Giants. By the grace of the God, this great opportunity has come , and we should not let it go.
 
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randomradio

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I actually was underestimating Chinese missiles before, I did read upon them. At that time I wasn't taking their claims seriously but now I think they do have tech advantage over us...

It's a very temporary advantage. Our current situation is just bad timing for us.

I was cribbing about giving them that advantage by not going for the Derby ER when it came out. At least by 2018 we could have had some. We didn't even need a lot. 500 missiles for the MKI would have done the trick, until Astra Mk2 came along. We would have had them during Balakot as well. But all we did is talk about it since 2017, decided to go for it in 2018 and firmed up the requirement in 2019.

Right now, we have the Meteor, so we have the missile advantage in case of a very short skirmish today. Once 20-25 Rafales are in, we will go back to holding the advantage, and that should happen in less than a year, irrespective of Derby on the MKI.
 

rockstarIN

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It's a very temporary advantage. Our current situation is just bad timing for us.

I was cribbing about giving them that advantage by not going for the Derby ER when it came out. At least by 2018 we could have had some. We didn't even need a lot. 500 missiles for the MKI would have done the trick, until Astra Mk2 came along. We would have had them during Balakot as well. But all we did is talk about it since 2017, decided to go for it in 2018 and firmed up the requirement in 2019.

Right now, we have the Meteor, so we have the missile advantage in case of a very short skirmish today. Once 20-25 Rafales are in, we will go back to holding the advantage, and that should happen in less than a year, irrespective of Derby on the MKI.


Do we have Derby ER now with MKI or confirmation of integration on LCAs?
 
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