How does Chinese flankers fare against our Su-30 MKI ?

Aurora

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I request the experts on this forum to compare the flankers of Chinese AF with our own, also with other fighters. Any info about latest strength of Chinese AF would be much appreciated. Thankyou.
 
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Nikhil

nik141993
Dec 1, 2017
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I request the experts on this forum to compare the flankers of Chinese AF with our own, also with other fighters. Any info about latest strength of Chinese AF would be much appreciated. Thank you.
I am no expert but here's my two cents on the topic. Most Chinese flankers are inferior to SU 30MKI except SU 35 and there new J-16 later one carrying an AESA.
Most Chinese flankers carry N001 series of PDRs and there copies which are inferior to N011M Bar hybrid ESA on MKI.
SU 35 carry Irbis-E PESA which is superior to Bars radar on MKI
while J 16 carry an AESA which is superior to Irbis-E.
So over all Chinese flankers have come a long way from using pulse Doppler radars to AESA.
as for strength of PLAAF flankers they have 356 J 11 , 76 SU 30MKK , 128+ J 16 and 24 SU 35..... source is wiki though.
 
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randomradio

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The Chinese have at least 150-200 Flankers that are superior to all the MKIs in our inventory. These Flankers have AESA radars and PL-15 missiles. Both the radar and the missile have twice the range compared to the MKI's radar and missile. The MKI needs the Derby-ER upgrade ASAP at the very minimum to remain competitive.

The PLAAF also have the Su-35, but it doesn't have a significant advantage over the MKI since both aircraft use the same type of weapons.

The J-20 is a whole different cup of tea and needs the Rafale in significant numbers followed by a more advanced jet in the future, when the J-20's more advanced cousins become available. The new J-10C also presents a significant amount of threat due to similar upgrades, including the PL-15.

While MKI will be modernised with an AESA radar in the future, it is still quite some time away. The IAF was hoping on a significant number of Rafales to make up for the difference. If the earlier MMRCA went ahead as planned, with first inductions in 2015-16 and a squadron a year after that, the IAF would have had at least 70-80 jets operational today, which would have been more than enough. Of course, the IAF was also betting on the FGFA to become available by now. So there indeed was no Plan B if the MMRCA failed. Lucky for us the govt bought 36 Rafales.

Naturally, all our other aircraft are also significantly inferior to the modernised Chinese Flankers.

So, over the next 5 years, the IAF is betting on the Rafale and LCA Mk1A to make up for the tech shortfall, alongside getting the Derby-ER upgrade for the MKI. What works in our favour presently is we have better ground infrastructure and are procuring modern SAMs of various types. Our force multipliers are definitely better. We can assume our training and ability to use our resources are much better.
 

rone

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Sep 18, 2019
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The point we all forgetting is if Chinese AESA radars is that much threatening to IAF we would have been gone for AESA upgrade for mki ( considering jag d3 it's not a fan boy dream), considering modern warfare the superiority is byproduct of network centric and SAW mission aircrafts, consider a scenario where j16 or j10c detecting su30 mki or m2k around 200 km and getting a firing solution using pl15 where m2k and mki data linked with netra AWACS and missile launches altered, so in this condition pl15 became useless after m2k and mki taking defensive action ( do any air combat simulation and try to engane anu fighter in long range BVR where Target birds calling out for missile lunch's ) once BVR threats became neutralized it come wvr where superior piloting skills and better ccm make difference, when comes to ccm we have much better arsenal .
 
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Ashwin

Agent_47
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I request the experts on this forum to compare the flankers of Chinese AF with our own, also with other fighters. Any info about latest strength of Chinese AF would be much appreciated. Thankyou.
The first question should be which flanker?

Su-27SK and Su-27UBK - First direct import from china (1991), Shitty avionics
J-11A – Chinese/Russian assembled Su-27SK from Russian-made kits. 104 were built. They were later upgraded with MAWS. Unconfirmed upgrades include improved cockpit displays, and fire control systems for R-77 or PL-10 missiles.It is also called J-11
J-11B -
Unauthorised copy of Su-27 with Chinese technology.
Su-30MKK -
Cousine of our MKI, Twin seat, and with canards.
Su-30MK2 - Specialised for maritime strike.
Su-35S - Latest import from Russia
J-15 – Carrier-based version of J-11B
J-16
- Most advanced strike fighter with AESA and higher thrust engines. Avionics from J-11B with Airframe of Su-30MKK

Screenshot_2020-06-04 PLA-AF and PLA-N Flanker Variants.png



So to answer conservatively, Most flankers excluding Su-27 and J-11 are on per or better than our Su-30MKIs.

 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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The first question should be which flanker?

Su-27SK and Su-27UBK - First direct import from china (1991), Shitty avionics
J-11A – Chinese/Russian assembled Su-27SK from Russian-made kits. 104 were built. They were later upgraded with MAWS. Unconfirmed upgrades include improved cockpit displays, and fire control systems for R-77 or PL-10 missiles.It is also called J-11
J-11B -
Unauthorised copy of Su-27 with Chinese technology.
Su-30MKK - Cousine of our MKI, Twin seat, and with canards.
Su-30MK2 - Specialised for maritime strike.
Su-35S - Latest import from Russia
J-15 – Carrier-based version of J-11B
J-16 - Most advanced strike fighter with AESA and higher thrust engines. Avionics from J-11B with Airframe of Su-30MKK

View attachment 16316


So to answer conservatively, Most flankers excluding Su-27 and J-11 are on per or better than our Su-30MKIs.

There's no relation between Su-30MKI and MKK. The MKK has been designed for maritime strike.
 

Aurora

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May 18, 2020
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So to answer conservatively, Most flankers excluding Su-27 and J-11 are on per or better than our Su-30MKIs.
Sir, I knew that our MKI when inducted was far superior than su 30mkk. Did Chinese upgrade them after that??
 

Aurora

Active member
May 18, 2020
315
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The Chinese have at least 150-200 Flankers that are superior to all the MKIs in our inventory. These Flankers have AESA radars and PL-15 missiles. Both the radar and the missile have twice the range compared to the MKI's radar and missile. The MKI needs the Derby-ER upgrade ASAP at the very minimum to remain competitive.

The PLAAF also have the Su-35, but it doesn't have a significant advantage over the MKI since both aircraft use the same type of weapons.

The J-20 is a whole different cup of tea and needs the Rafale in significant numbers followed by a more advanced jet in the future, when the J-20's more advanced cousins become available. The new J-10C also presents a significant amount of threat due to similar upgrades, including the PL-15.

While MKI will be modernised with an AESA radar in the future, it is still quite some time away. The IAF was hoping on a significant number of Rafales to make up for the difference. If the earlier MMRCA went ahead as planned, with first inductions in 2015-16 and a squadron a year after that, the IAF would have had at least 70-80 jets operational today, which would have been more than enough. Of course, the IAF was also betting on the FGFA to become available by now. So there indeed was no Plan B if the MMRCA failed. Lucky for us the govt bought 36 Rafales.

Naturally, all our other aircraft are also significantly inferior to the modernised Chinese Flankers.

So, over the next 5 years, the IAF is betting on the Rafale and LCA Mk1A to make up for the tech shortfall, alongside getting the Derby-ER upgrade for the MKI. What works in our favour presently is we have better ground infrastructure and are procuring modern SAMs of various types. Our force multipliers are definitely better. We can assume our training and ability to use our resources are much better.
Then how would we fare against PLAAF if war breaks out??
 

rockstarIN

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Dec 26, 2017
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The Chinese have at least 150-200 Flankers that are superior to all the MKIs in our inventory. These Flankers have AESA radars and PL-15 missiles. Both the radar and the missile have twice the range compared to the MKI's radar and missile. The MKI needs the Derby-ER upgrade ASAP at the very minimum to remain competitive.



So, over the next 5 years, the IAF is betting on the Rafale and LCA Mk1A to make up for the tech shortfall, alongside getting the Derby-ER upgrade for the MKI
. What works in our favour presently is we have better ground infrastructure and are procuring modern SAMs of various types. Our force multipliers are definitely better. We can assume our training and ability to use our resources are much better.
What is the current status of I Derby ER integration on MKI and how many years will it take?

Didn't we order the latest R77 with duel pulse motors, extended range as emergency purchase from Russians?
 

Aurora

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May 18, 2020
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I am deeply Thankful for all the thoughtful answers. I would further like to ask if someone knows about the latest strength of different fighters in PLAAF.
 

Ankit Kumar

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Nov 30, 2017
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Indian Flankers and Chinese Flankers both are actually results of two seperate development programs of modernisation of original flanker. And the success of Irkut over KNAAPO should perfectly establish which product is better.

Lets put it more simply. KNAAPO was involved in Su35 program. So Su30MKK and Su30MK2 products are actually twin seater derivatives of Su35 platform.

While Irkut was involved with Su27 modernisation for Soviet Air Defence forces. And Su30MKI and Su30SM are derivatives of twin seater Su27.

KNAAPO with Su30 program focused on Air Superiority role while Irkut with Su30 focused on improving the aircrafts attack and multi role capabilities.

And while it might not be too much visible. These differences persist in capabilities.

Russians themselves preferred Su30SM from Irkut line compared to Su30MK2 from KNAAPO line. The difference in production numbers is nearly 7 times. That should explain you the difference in capabilities.

Although with shrinking budget, Russians are now doing more unified work taking best of Irkut and KNAAPO both for further upgradation of Flankers.
 

Ankit Kumar

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
2,081
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Bangalore
What is the current status of I Derby ER integration on MKI and how many years will it take?

Didn't we order the latest R77 with duel pulse motors, extended range as emergency purchase from Russians?
Non of the purchase was "emergency". The missiles have a self life of 10-15 years. The first deliveries of R73, 77,27 came in around 2003&4, so it was time to replace them. No emergency.
Then how would we fare against PLAAF if war breaks out??
We have enough capability and numbers to hold on to any possible Plaaf attack as of today. We lack tankers and AWACS under EAC , that is a problem for us.
 
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ashdoc

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Dec 7, 2017
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One advantage India has is that it's jets will be taking off with full load of weaponry while Chinese jets will be taking off with only half their load of weapons and fuel due to the high altitude conditions of Tibet.
 

Ankit Kumar

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Nov 30, 2017
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Bangalore
One advantage India has is that it's jets will be taking off with full load of weaponry while Chinese jets will be taking off with only half their load of weapons and fuel due to the high altitude conditions of Tibet.
Not a big advantage. Only the Su30MKK and variants are actually Multirole with any meaningful air to ground capability. So J11s will be flying air superiority roles only. And for that they have enough payload capacity.

Our Eastern Command was to have its dedicated Tanker squadron and AWACS squadron by 2015-16. That's a big hole for us.
 
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Aurora

Active member
May 18, 2020
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Indian Flankers and Chinese Flankers both are actually results of two seperate development programs of modernisation of original flanker. And the success of Irkut over KNAAPO should perfectly establish which product is better.

Lets put it more simply. KNAAPO was involved in Su35 program. So Su30MKK and Su30MK2 products are actually twin seater derivatives of Su35 platform.

While Irkut was involved with Su27 modernisation for Soviet Air Defence forces. And Su30MKI and Su30SM are derivatives of twin seater Su27.

KNAAPO with Su30 program focused on Air Superiority role while Irkut with Su30 focused on improving the aircrafts attack and multi role capabilities.

And while it might not be too much visible. These differences persist in capabilities.

Russians themselves preferred Su30SM from Irkut line compared to Su30MK2 from KNAAPO line. The difference in production numbers is nearly 7 times. That should explain you the difference in capabilities.

Although with shrinking budget, Russians are now doing more unified work taking best of Irkut and KNAAPO both for further upgradation of Flankers.
So basically su35 is a strike fighter??