How does Chinese flankers fare against our Su-30 MKI ?

randomradio

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Mirage 2000 with MICA is very capable due to ICMS which is a SPECTRA like system, you should speed up HAL to deliver the retrofit of all your Mirage 2000.
Mirage 2000 will soon be able to fire MICA NG.
As of 1.5 years ago, 11 had been delivered. So we are likely talking about half the fleet by the end of the year with the current delivery schedule.

Anyway, MICA NG's expected delivery date is 2026. Even if that's cut down by half, it won't help if hostilities break out over the course of the year.

A quicker option would be to add Derby ER on the M2000, but even that's going to come in late, not counting all the ToT issues. The integration into MKI will be far quicker instead, also the 32 LCA Mk1s, since they are already integrated with Derby.

With the exception of absorbing some extra Rafales and Meteors from the production line or French excess supplies over the next few months, I don't see any possible way for India to get western long range missiles anytime soon enough to use within just a few months.

This is the latest news.
Official sources told Jane’s that the IAF is in talks with Rafael to acquire the active radar-guided I-Derby ER, which has a range of 100 km, adding that the procurement process for the missiles could be finalised “imminently”.

Dunno why the common sense of acquiring the Derby ER for the MKI a few years earlier escaped the IAF. It was available since 2016 or so. Red flags were already raised when US Gen Carlisle announced the USAF has to develop a new missile to counter the PL-15 back in 2015. And we already had our answer in the Derby ER.

If we are lucky, then the Derby's integration with MKI has already been carried out alongside LCA. Which would mean all we need now is to buy and operationalise the Derby ER ASAP.

The way I see it, we should not go to war until some types of procurements are complete.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Anyway, MICA NG's expected delivery date is 2026.
Mica NG has to be delivered with F4. Initial planning for F4 was F4.1 in 2023 and F4.2 in 2025, But Dassault is not Lockheed Martin and then current planning is not 2026 but 2022 for F4.1 and 2024 for F4.2.....And there is no need of integration to use MICA NG in place of MICA on a Mirage 2000.
 
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Ashwin

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As of 1.5 years ago, 11 had been delivered. So we are likely talking about half the fleet by the end of the year with the current delivery schedule.

Anyway, MICA NG's expected delivery date is 2026. Even if that's cut down by half, it won't help if hostilities break out over the course of the year.

A quicker option would be to add Derby ER on the M2000, but even that's going to come in late, not counting all the ToT issues. The integration into MKI will be far quicker instead, also the 32 LCA Mk1s, since they are already integrated with Derby.

With the exception of absorbing some extra Rafales and Meteors from the production line or French excess supplies over the next few months, I don't see any possible way for India to get western long range missiles anytime soon enough to use within just a few months.

This is the latest news.
Official sources told Jane’s that the IAF is in talks with Rafael to acquire the active radar-guided I-Derby ER, which has a range of 100 km, adding that the procurement process for the missiles could be finalised “imminently”.

Dunno why the common sense of acquiring the Derby ER for the MKI a few years earlier escaped the IAF. It was available since 2016 or so. Red flags were already raised when US Gen Carlisle announced the USAF has to develop a new missile to counter the PL-15 back in 2015. And we already had our answer in the Derby ER.

If we are lucky, then the Derby's integration with MKI has already been carried out alongside LCA. Which would mean all we need now is to buy and operationalise the Derby ER ASAP.

The way I see it, we should not go to war until some types of procurements are complete.
Let me reiterate, I-Derby does not have AESA seeker.
 

randomradio

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Mica NG has to be delivered with F4. Initial planning for F4 was F4.1 in 2023 and F4.2 in 2025, But Dassault is not Lockheed Martin and then current planning is not 2026 but 2022 for F4.1 and 2024 for F4.2.....And there is no need of integration to use MICA NG in place of MICA on a Mirage 2000.
The missile was cleared for developed only in 2018. How will it be ready by 2021 or 2022?
Let me reiterate, I-Derby does not have AESA seeker.
Then what does it have?
 

Lolwa

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Feb 6, 2020
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EW is more about the software than the hardware.
A strong hardwa
We carry EW pods designed by Israelis and they have the best experience in EW and ECM. Their equipment has been extensively tested and proven against all kinds of Russian equipment. Chinese have copies of Russian weapon systems including the EW. So I rate EW capabilities of India superior to that of PLA & PLAAF. Infect, every SAM system in the inventory of PLA & PLAAF has been blown to bits by Israelis in Syria. Israel has access to US and NATO weapons also and their systems are designed to suppress weapons of all origins.
But most of the chinese ew was made with help of the Israelis so are we sure that their ew won't be equivalent to us.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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The missile was cleared for developed only in 2018. How will it be ready by 2021 or 2022?
It's only an evolution of the MICA: You use New electronic (the same than other missile because MBDA make a lot of missile) then you reduce mass and save space, then you add a second propulsion system. The main problem is to test all that. Three to four years to test and adapt....
 

TARGET

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Dec 2, 2017
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As of 1.5 years ago, 11 had been delivered. So we are likely talking about half the fleet by the end of the year with the current delivery schedule.

Anyway, MICA NG's expected delivery date is 2026. Even if that's cut down by half, it won't help if hostilities break out over the course of the year.

A quicker option would be to add Derby ER on the M2000, but even that's going to come in late, not counting all the ToT issues. The integration into MKI will be far quicker instead, also the 32 LCA Mk1s, since they are already integrated with Derby.

With the exception of absorbing some extra Rafales and Meteors from the production line or French excess supplies over the next few months, I don't see any possible way for India to get western long range missiles anytime soon enough to use within just a few months.

This is the latest news.
Official sources told Jane’s that the IAF is in talks with Rafael to acquire the active radar-guided I-Derby ER, which has a range of 100 km, adding that the procurement process for the missiles could be finalised “imminently”.

Dunno why the common sense of acquiring the Derby ER for the MKI a few years earlier escaped the IAF. It was available since 2016 or so. Red flags were already raised when US Gen Carlisle announced the USAF has to develop a new missile to counter the PL-15 back in 2015. And we already had our answer in the Derby ER.

If we are lucky, then the Derby's integration with MKI has already been carried out alongside LCA. Which would mean all we need now is to buy and operationalise the Derby ER ASAP.

The way I see it, we should not go to war until some types of procurements are complete.
We already have a good understanding of Air to Air missile, why not fast track ASTRA MK2, SFDR, and Brahmos Awacs Killer version to develop in 1 Year ...maybe a trial version by adding more resources and fund from IAF. Not sure when we will stop looking towards the foreign vendors.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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We carry EW pods designed by Israelis and they have the best experience in EW and ECM.
The Israelis wanted to demonstrate their mastery of EW and NATO organised the MACE XIII exercises in 2012, for them to show us that they could handle the threat of a Slovak S 300 PMU. As a result, the Israeli F-16CJs failed the test and only the Rafale was able to fly over the S 300 without being engaged.
 
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randomradio

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It's only an evolution of the MICA: You use New electronic (the same than other missile because MBDA make a lot of missile) then you reduce mass and save space, then you add a second propulsion system. The main problem is to test all that. Three to four years to test and adapt....
I still feel you have underestimated the date. If it becomes available in 2021, great. If not, then bad luck for us.
 

randomradio

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We already have a good understanding of Air to Air missile, why not fast track ASTRA MK2, SFDR, and Brahmos Awacs Killer version to develop in 1 Year ...maybe a trial version by adding more resources and fund from IAF. Not sure when we will stop looking towards the foreign vendors.
They are talking about testing Brahmos AAM from next year. Even if that's true, it won't be available for a few more years after that.

Astra Mk2 and SFDR are years away as well.

Our only ready and available options today are the K-77M and Derby ER. K-77M can go on the MKI whereas Derby ER can be used on the LCA. It's the availability of the missiles that's in doubt.
 

randomradio

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What is the other option if not these? Or they are short on quantity?
The PL-15 is superior to anything the Americans have. So all 4th gen American jets are automatically inferior to the J-16 and J-10C equipped with AESA and this missile. (Yeah, that's how dangerous this missile is.)

The only way for India to equalize it or surpass it right now:

Rafale with Meteor or MICA NG. Those are coming in but we need more than 36, or at the very least all 36.

MKI with K-77M or Derby ER. K-77M is possibly ready and integrated, so we only need to import it if that's the case. Derby ER may or may not be integrated and may also not be a realistic option due to the possibility of the Russians killing the option in favour of their own missile.

LCA with Derby ER. LCA is already integrated with Derby, so ER is an obvious upgrade. But we need more than 32 jets.

Mig-29 with K-77M.

M2000 with MICA NG.

The radars of LCA, Mig-29 and M2000 may not be able to use the missiles to their full capability at high altitude, but it's not a problem. Networking may deal with the problem to a certain extent.

MICA NG is still under development. K-77M's status is unknown, but it was supposed to become operational back in 2016-17. Derby ER is waiting for orders. Meteor is in the process of (or already) being delivered.

The number of missiles that can be delivered at short notice within a short time frame, that's anyone's guess.
 
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Saaho

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The PL-15 is superior to anything the Americans have.
Correction : PL-15 is an UNKNOWN at best.

PL-15 reminds me of fascination with Mig-31 Foxhound during cold war. Here is an article on it :

1593196878589.png


This is from popular mechanics. Notice the hype around Mig-31. A supercruise fighter with capability to fly near space and has an almost alien radar at that point of time. It sported a massive 160KM+ range A2A missiles to boot.

Turned out, Mig-31 can be intercepted by Amraams and R33s carried by them had pathetic performance against maneuvering fighters like F-16. India which once considered replacing its Mig-25 with it then decided not to buy them.

Upshot folks, DO NOT assume UNKNOWN as naturally SUPERIOR or even AHEAD OF CURVE. Why? Because curve is not one or two dimensional.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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The PL-15 is superior to anything the Americans have. So all 4th gen American jets are automatically inferior to the J-16 and J-10C equipped with AESA and this missile. (Yeah, that's how dangerous this missile is.)

The only way for India to equalize it or surpass it right now:

Rafale with Meteor or MICA NG. Those are coming in but we need more than 36, or at the very least all 36.

MKI with K-77M or Derby ER. K-77M is possibly ready and integrated, so we only need to import it if that's the case. Derby ER may or may not be integrated and may also not be a realistic option due to the possibility of the Russians killing the option in favour of their own missile.

LCA with Derby ER. LCA is already integrated with Derby, so ER is an obvious upgrade. But we need more than 32 jets.

Mig-29 with K-77M.

M2000 with MICA NG.

The radars of LCA, Mig-29 and M2000 may not be able to use the missiles to their full capability at high altitude, but it's not a problem. Networking may deal with the problem to a certain extent.

MICA NG is still under development. K-77M's status is unknown, but it was supposed to become operational back in 2016-17. Derby ER is waiting for orders. Meteor is in the process of (or already) being delivered.

The number of missiles that can be delivered at short notice within a short time frame, that's anyone's guess.
M2000 with Derby ER.
 

randomradio

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I never said 2021 I think It will be available in between F4.1 and F4.2 likely in 2023. It's 3 years before 2026.
By 2023, all the other missiles I named will perhaps enter service in large numbers. I was looking at what are the options today until the arrival of the next summer, about Apr-May. Within just 1 year.