ADA AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

"Build a jet engine first and design an airframe based on it" - I have read this statement somewhere.

My doubt is if ADA and HAL are equipping AMCA with GE-F414 engine, How can they change the engine once the Kaveri/its derivatives matures on the same platform? Will they design Kaveri/derivative exactly as dimensions of GE-F414 or will they change the dimensions of airframe ?
We have to start the AMCA project considering some products which we don't manufacture like the engine -GE 414, Radar -ELTA 2052 , Ejection seat - Martin-Baker. which are also best in class . If we are able to replace them in the future with the indigenous product then we will else the project will continue as per the plan . Same as Gripen,F-CK-1A...
 
"Build a jet engine first and design an airframe based on it" - I have read this statement somewhere.

My doubt is if ADA and HAL are equipping AMCA with GE-F414 engine, How can they change the engine once the Kaveri/its derivatives matures on the same platform? Will they design Kaveri/derivative exactly as dimensions of GE-F414 or will they change the dimensions of airframe ?
Yes, similar dimensions with ~10% additional thrust. GE414 and EJ200 are almost 3 decade old tech. Latest of the two, EJ2x0 phase 2 already projected 120kn. So it's achievable.

Different versions of it can be used in LCA mk2 and TEDBF.
 
"Build a jet engine first and design an airframe based on it" - I have read this statement somewhere.

My doubt is if ADA and HAL are equipping AMCA with GE-F414 engine, How can they change the engine once the Kaveri/its derivatives matures on the same platform? Will they design Kaveri/derivative exactly as dimensions of GE-F414 or will they change the dimensions of airframe ?

The engine will be designed to be a drop fit in any aircraft that uses the F414.
 
Works well with the MWF but how would it help in R&D for a stealth engine. Most stealth engines have different core from conventional engines. They are more contra rotation compressors, for easy flow of power in low fuel. I don't think F414 has contra rotation core.

It won't of course. The engine will be required to complete the development of AMCA. Just like how the Russians are using 117 in Su-57 and the Chinese are using Al-31FM2 in J-20. A definitive engine has to be made from scratch and will be a parallel program.

We can't design an engine and then begin development of AMCA.

Well then they should change their AMCA dimensions. Doesn't make any sense of having such dimensions where no stealth engine can be fitted. What exactly they are trying to achieve?

We are gonna design our own stealth engine.
 
We are gonna design our own stealth engine.
Right now, we'd be weeping tears of gratitude if the GTRE manages to develop a conventional turbofan engine to power the MWF during it's MLU which if the first MWF arrives by 2030 , should occur in 2040 . That's a full two decades from now & I'm referring to a conventional turbofan not variable bypass or a stealth one.
 
Right now, we'd be weeping tears of gratitude if the GTRE manages to develop a conventional turbofan engine to power the MWF during it's MLU which if the first MWF arrives by 2030 , should occur in 2040 . That's a full two decades from now & I'm referring to a conventional turbofan not variable bypass or a stealth one.

That's not the assumption the govt or IAF are going by for the AMCA though.

The Kaveri K9/K9+ will see further development for the IUSAV and will even see stealth augmentors and advanced IR treatment.
 
Nothing that much interesting or new apart from the chart
This article mentions the first flight in 2024-25 which is impossible. I don't expect the first flight of AMCA any sooner than 2030 but MWF's first flight around 2025 is a possibility
 
Nothing that much interesting or new apart from the chart

:sleep:Wake me up when we will sign a deal for LCA Mk1a ... AMCA by HAL will take another 20 years. These guys yet to identify the manufacturing partner .so nothing progressed
 
The hf 24 route is basically what you are suggesting. The main design is indigenous and consultancy is done by a foreign company or individuals that are hired by the company. Ofb needs to hire some foreign consultants from Germany and the U.S to design and manufacture firearms. The job of QC can also be given to them. The Chinese did exactly this with their z10 where they used the help of Kamov to design a helicopter. The way UAE did. The same way the Koreans took help of Lockheed Martin to make the KAI T 50 golden eagle.
Add HAL ALH, all our DND designed ships

(KAI T 50 is fully LM design it was not just a consultancy. For KAI KF-X they went for a proper consultancy where they will hold IPR.)
 
HAL ALH, all our DND designed ships

(KAI T 50 is fully LM design it was not just a consultancy. For KAI KF-X they went for a proper consultancy where they will hold IPR.)
Still it's the Koreans that are making money out of it. There is no harm in co-developing technologies with allied countries. The JV model is the best model in my opinion you can share tech and get state of the art tech which you otherwise had to develop it yourself the chances of getting upto date tech would be difficult. Our best tech has been JV barak 8, brahmos. I wouldn't mind doing a JV with Koreans on AMCA. Or with the Swedes on a tejas mk 3 stealth
 
Still it's the Koreans that are making money out of it. There is no harm in co-developing technologies with allied countries. The JV model is the best model in my opinion you can share tech and get state of the art tech which you otherwise had to develop it yourself the chances of getting upto date tech would be difficult. Our best tech has been JV barak 8, brahmos. I wouldn't mind doing a JV with Koreans on AMCA. Or with the Swedes on a tejas mk 3 stealth
The problem is that Koreans had to go for the same LM to design their next fighter. LCA should have been pursued this route but it was a different sanction hit time. Barak and Brahmos shared an impossible level of tech that we could achieve at that time. Time has changed there wouldn't be a fighter JV. We are self-sufficient in this regard (Unlike Koreans even with their high tech base).
 
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The problem is that Koreans had to go for the same LM to design their next fighter. LCA should have been pursued this route but it was a different sanction hit time. Barak and Brahmos shared an impossible level of tech that we could achieve at that time. Time has changed there wouldn't be a fighter JV. We are self-sufficient in this regard (Unlike Koreans even with their high tech base).
I personally don't want a JV with the Koreans because we are on the same tech level as them. They are also developing their own radar and have the same problems as us. A JV for AMCA should rather be with the Japanese because they have the engine ready we could work with them on the radar and other ew stuff. Japanese ew is not that sophisticated in my opinion. But they won't work with us. The Japanese are pretty paranoid regarding their tech. The AMCA model making deal with RR for the engine is better though. The parameters are so high for the amca that if we successfully make this aircraft and induct in 2030's it will be the best performing fifth gen comparable to the f22 in terms of maneuverability.
 
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I personally don't want a JV with the Koreans because we are on the same tech level as them. They are also developing their own radar and have the same problems as us. A JV for AMCA should rather be with the Japanese because they have the engine ready we could work with them on the radar and other ew stuff. Japanese ew is not that sophisticated in my opinion. But they won't work with us. The Japanese are pretty paranoid regarding their tech. The AMCA model making deal with RR for the engine is better though. The parameters are so high for the amca that if we successfully make this aircraft and induct in 2030's it will be the best performing fifth gen comparable to the f22 in terms of maneuverability.
We can collaborate with japanese IN ENGINE arena, tgey have developed a finest jet engine, with a monstrous electrical out put of 180KW.
What all are those parameters of AMCA?
 
We can collaborate with japanese IN ENGINE arena, tgey have developed a finest jet engine, with a monstrous electrical out put of 180KW.
What all are those parameters of AMCA?
Aerodynamic performance the requirements are pretty high for speed and maneuverability for the amca . I genuinely think amca will be a monster of a dogfighter. If the parameters are met for that performance. Electronics and tech wise we are only truly behind the Japanese fifth gen programme. Because first they have an amazing engine, superior to even the Russian item 117 . They are not using fly by wire but fly by optic it's something revolutionary in that sense. That we will be skipping from wire to fibre optic making it much faster response than any other fifth gen aircraft. Electronics wise we might be really ahead of the Koreans in terms of requirements. The Korean one will be an above average plane but not as good as us the parameters are just too competitive. Amca will be an amazing Air defense and interceptor fighter. Amca's biggest weakness is it's load carrying capacity is the smallest out of all fifth gens. The Turkish fifth gen is a more f22 su57 class fighter. And therefore I doubt it's capabilty to fifth gen. Although aselsan has been impressive in terms of electronics I somehow doubt they won't be successful on that. Even though Koral ew is impressive. Just read Wikipedia and the specifications of amca and you can compare no one is close when it comes to technical parameters close to amca . It will be superior to even the f35 if we successfully make the fifth gen engine with RR.
 
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Aerodynamic performance the requirements are pretty high for speed and maneuverability for the amca . I genuinely think amca will be a monster of a dogfighter. If the parameters are met for that performance. Electronics and tech wise we are only truly behind the Japanese fifth gen programme. Because first they have an amazing engine, superior to even the Russian item 117 . They are not using fly by wire but fly by optic it's something revolutionary in that sense. That we will be skipping from wire to fibre optic making it much faster response than any other fifth gen aircraft. Electronics wise we might be really ahead of the Koreans in terms of requirements. The Korean one will be an above average plane but not as good as us the parameters are just too competitive. Amca will be an amazing Air defense and interceptor fighter. Amca's biggest weakness is it's load carrying capacity is the smallest out of all fifth gens. The Turkish fifth gen is a more f22 su57 class fighter. And therefore I doubt it's capabilty to fifth gen. Although aselsan has been impressive in terms of electronics I somehow doubt they won't be successful on that. Even though Koral ew is impressive. Just read Wikipedia and the specifications of amca and you can compare no one is close when it comes to technical parameters close to amca . It will be superior to even the f35 if we successfully make the fifth gen engine with RR.
Japanese engine, i will keep its ahead of f22's engine. Rest of the case american jets will triumph.
When comes to amca, we dont know how good it will be. As you said it is the smallest jet, and we are repeating the same old mistake like smallest tejas. There is a report that AMCA will not house Astra inside its weapin bay because of the bay is small( i dont know how true it is) and DRDO to re work on astra. And missiles are going to be get longer body in future, fir longer interception people are going to develop bigger missiles. So logically speaking size of amca is not sufficient.
Turkey is already having some of the finest ew systems, Koreans are also one of the world leader when comes to electronics & they do have a very strong civilian electronic base.
As an indian, i want to believe amca will be world beater, but the above mentioned facts cannot be ignored.
 
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Japanese engine, i will keep its ahead of f22's engine. Rest of the case american jets will triumph.
When comes to amca, we dont know how good it will be. As you said it is the smallest jet, and we are repeating the same old mistake like smallest tejas. There is a report that AMCA will not house Astra inside its weapin bay because of the bay is small( i dont know how true it is) and DRDO to re work on astra. And missiles are going to be get longer body in future, fir longer interception people are going to develop bigger missiles. So logically speaking size of amca is not sufficient.
Turkey is already having some of the finest ew systems, Koreans are also one of the world leader when comes to electronics & they do have a very strong civilian electronic base.
As an indian, i want to believe amca will be world beater, but the above mentioned facts cannot be ignored.
We are behind all the three countries when it comes to electronics. The Turks have really started focusing in defense production. And thanks to western investment and ties with NATO their technology is on par with them also the Israelis have assisted the Turks a lot. There is a reason why Israel doesn't recognise the Armenian genocide.
The reason why I'm calling amca the best fifth gen is because design wise it is its superior to basically every fifth gen aircraft in terms of performance in theory. And we have basically taken into account every tech that has been developed for our fifth gen programme. A lot of tech that Turkey and SoKo will develop is going to American or British tech. The Turkish program just will hit the glass ceiling because ther economy won't be able to handle the investment unless they go full Pakistan with it. The Turkish fifth gen is ambitious but since the lack of technology it will be closer to the j20 and su57 in performance than to the f22. The Japanese programme will basically revolutionise air warfare and will end being comparable to the tempest/scaf.
I just hope we increase the size of the IWB for the Amca and all the problems will be solved.