Trainer Aircraft of IAF - PC-7, HTT-40, HJT-36, BAE Hawk

Sorry, didn't get your point, development vs buying a ready made thing, former will obviously require more time. If you're talking about development period then

Mid 1960s work on PC7 starts, 1966, proto crashes, 1973 work starts again, 1975 maiden flight and first production aircraft flies in 1978.
 
Sorry, didn't get your point, development vs buying a ready made thing, former will obviously require more time. If you're talking about development period then

Mid 1960s work on PC7 starts, 1966, proto crashes, 1973 work starts again, 1975 maiden flight and first production aircraft flies in 1978.
The point is that the needs of the IAF should be met ASAP, in this case, training aircraft - we stop the follow-up order in favour of HTT40 which is delayed for some reason or another. Nothing against the HTT40 or any indigenous systems, just please meet milestones and deliver on time .

Second - the IAF Pilatus PC7s are the MkII - what is the development time for this type?
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Anyone notice this ? (Dated 18.10.2025 - ANI report on third assembly plant Nashik)

Is this the First Serial production Frames - anyone can confirm?
 
The point is that the needs of the IAF should be met ASAP, in this case, training aircraft - we stop the follow-up order in favour of HTT40 which is delayed for some reason or another. Nothing against the HTT40 or any indigenous systems, just please meet milestones and deliver on time .

Second - the IAF Pilatus PC7s are the MkII - what is the development time for this type?
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Anyone notice this ? (Dated 18.10.2025 - ANI report on third assembly plant Nashik)

Is this the First Serial production Frames - anyone can confirm?
I leave the decision making to IAF, obviously they think it's better to order HTT40, 70 already on order, probably more 38


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Where is Prashant Bhadoria working now?

Working in the private sector for a generous salary is not a crime. They have earned it because of their experience in service to the nation. We should appreciate the fact that the Indian private sector is confident enough to hire talent from across the aisle, and true cross-pollination is happening.

Being suspicious of private entrepreneurship is the root cause of most of our problems today. Overregulation stems from this attitude, which poses the biggest challenge to operating a business in this nation. You are continuing the socialist congressie legacy.

IAF was desperate to get new trainers. HPT-32 was suddenly grounded after crash in 2009. Their overall confidence in HAL to D&D was low after the HJT-36 debacle. You have to remember that IAF took a risk with HTJ-36 and ordered 12 LSP in 2006 by skipping certification procedures. Which it got flake from CAG. It was a different era. Saint Antony was doing yoga on files. There was incompetence at every level.

There are many things to criticize about the air force, but this is not one. Trying to fulfil basic operational necessities trumps every other argument for the service. Imagine an airforce without basic trainers.
 
HTT-35(Deepak replacement), which was supposed to be a BTA, and they showed a mock-up back in 1990. Submitted a proposal to the IAF in 1993, but no interest.

By 1994, talks had basically stopped. IAF went ahead with emergency procurement of PC7 after HPTs were grounded

Let's not also forget HPT-34

We seriously lack that forward thinking, if I need a replacement for XYZ thing, I will need to start on that replacement before hand, specially in aviation sector where, anything takes years.1000066383.png

Posting some screenshots from Indranil Sir(more knowledgeable than me to comment here), I hope that's allowed here

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Too many Rakhi Sawants :ROFLMAO:


PSQR vs ASQR

- As per the defence procurement procedure (DPP) in vogue, the Air Staff Qualitative Requirements (ASQRs) were prepared and ratified by the Service Equipment Policy Committee (SEPC) in October 2009.

- Simultaneously the PSQRs issued to HAL earlier in March 2009 were also revised to align with the ASQR for BTA (Buy) and were reissued to HAL by December 2009.

- HAL submitted its first draft project report (DPR) in September 2010 based on the amended PSQRs.

- Thus, as on date, PSQRs and ASQRs are similar, the major difference being that PSQRs include both ‘essential’ and ‘desirable’ parameters whereas ASQRs include only ‘essential’ parameters.

- PSQRs being preliminary are provisional and subject to review/change during the development process.

- The desirable parameters are based on futuristic/emerging technologies whereas the essential parameters are to be of proven state-of-the-art technology available in India as also in the world market.

- The ASQRs cannot be reviewed once the request for proposal (RFP) is issued. The ASQRs are based on inputs obtained through request for information (RFI) so as to ensure a multi-vendor situation.

- The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) then accorded acceptance of necessity (AON) for HAL in February 2010 to go ahead with the indigenous design and development of 106 BTA.

Coming to the points mentioned-

(1) 0-0 Ejection seat - It was never required by the IAF in PSQR. HAL said we can provide it and that is how it came into picture. But RFI response said only 2 vendors can give ejection seat and hence, when ASQR was formulated, 0-0 ejection seat criteria was not removed in favor of ejection seat.

(2) Cockpit Pressurization -

- Never an IAF requirement.

- In their preliminary project report (PPR) on HTT-40 in January 2008, HAL had stated that “The option of cabin pressurisation will also be looked into during the detailed design stage”.

- Accordingly, ‘cockpit pressurisation’ was included as a desirable parameter in the earlier PSQRs.

- The detailed project report (DPR) on HTT-40 submitted by HAL in September 2010 and approved by DG (Acquisition), did not include ‘cockpit pressurisation’.

(3) External vision from instructor's cockpit -

- With regard to the external vision, both the ASQR and current PSQR have identical criteria.

- In the earlier PSQRs, the seating configuration was defined as tandem arrangement and therefore, it included the requirement for external vision from rear cockpit of minus eight degrees.

- From the response to request for information (RFI) it emerged that the world market had BTA with both ‘tandem’ and ‘side-by-side’ seating.

- Accordingly, the ASQRs stipulated that “the external vision requirement should be in accordance with the relevant specification.

- Additionally, for a tandem seating design, the instructor’s cockpit in the rear should be sufficiently raised to allow safe flight instruction both by day and night.”

(4) Glide Ratio -

- Both ASQRs and the current PSQRs specify that “The aircraft should have a glide ratio better than 10:1”.

(5) In Flight Simulation -

- Both ASQRs and the current PSQRs do not specify any requirement for in-flight simulation.


- This requirement could be met with using the fixed base full mission simulator which was also being acquired and hence this requirement of a simulation panel on the aircraft was omitted as a considered decision while finalising ASQRs and the current PSQRs.

(6) Take-Off Distance -

- Both the ASQRs and current PSQRs stipulate “the takeoff distance required should be less than 1000 m”.

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Long story short, HAL was given the sams specs for development at the Buy category. And many things were proposed by HAL themselves, and not the IAF.
 
Lets enjoy the tough success achieved by HAL in bringing out the BTA HTT 40..
Lets not dig around the past to open the old wounds ..

Instead lets open the talk about future ..
What's going to replace HAWKs AJT ?

Why HLFT 42 is not getting sufficient support?
Why HAL has do it with its internal fund ..

Do have sufficient time to replace HAWKs via indigenous route ? Or waiting for last minute to call for imports ?

Why Yasha s not getting orders?
Atleast happy they decided to lease a few .
 

I think the new generation of kids are prejudiced about services. Serious lack of perspective. Now add abusive nature and trolling. Some need serious belt treatment when they attack go personal towards service men.

These kids are grown up in an environment where India is open and free. They have not seen the pre-1991 period. The extent of their knowledge how regarding 1991 ( even for 1990's born) was that MM is a master when it comes to finance. Post 2014 kids are even more out of loop cause they have heard Good things about India on world stage while so bad things in domestic. We grew up watching Border, Maa Tujhe Salaam while they are growing up watching Housefull 4.
 

I think the new generation of kids are prejudiced about services. Serious lack of perspective. Now add abusive nature and trolling. Some need serious belt treatment when they attack go personal towards service men.
So you mean to tell me any form of criticism should invite belt treatment.
Last I checked, the country was a democracy and had free speech.
 
So you mean to tell me any form of criticism should invite belt treatment.
Last I checked, the country was a democracy and had free speech.
I don't think he meant belt treatment by state. But parenting. Atleast that's how I read it.

Otherwise, there's people calling servicemen gunda, misbehaving with them in public spaces. Armed forces deserve respect.
 
So you mean to tell me any form of criticism should invite belt treatment.
Last I checked, the country was a democracy and had free speech.
Have you been to X or reddit? they are making memes of service members and mocking them. Making up stories. Sub mila hua hai attitude.

Check the mild above example about retired chief. Criticism should be directed towards the Air Force as an institution and its shortcomings, not towards individuals for corruption.

As i said, these are probably jobless kids. Some are NRIs. A reality check is needed for stirring up unnecessary issues.
 
Lets enjoy the tough success achieved by HAL in bringing out the BTA HTT 40..
Lets not dig around the past to open the old wounds ..

Instead lets open the talk about future ..
What's going to replace HAWKs AJT ?

Why HLFT 42 is not getting sufficient support?
Why HAL has do it with its internal fund ..

Do have sufficient time to replace HAWKs via indigenous route ? Or waiting for last minute to call for imports ?

Why Yasha s not getting orders?
Atleast happy they decided to lease a few .
I think it was reported that HAL was to lease 4 - 5 to the IAF for use and revaluation - not sure this is confirmed
 
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Points from the same article he has quoted

I think the new generation of kids are prejudiced about services. Serious lack of perspective. Now add abusive nature and trolling. Some need serious belt treatment when they attack go personal towards service men.


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