Sukhoi Su-30MKI

xxxxx

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36 is enough, the PLAAF will have 48 opposite us. More like they will take another year or two to match what we've got. They have other places to worry about first. The J-20C could take as much as 2027 or 2028 for them to have another 48 across our border.
I think it will be soon. According to China’s experience in changing to the J16, one brigade in each theater will be replaced first. This year we can see the J20 deployed in the western theater.
And I think you overestimate the Rafale fighter. For example, the Rafale can supersonic cruise. First of all, all supersonic cruises cannot be equipped with external missiles and pods, because this will form a huge shock wave resistance. Secondly, the gust uses a Pitot tube inlet. The air intake efficiency will drop significantly at Mach 1.4, and the performance of F16 with Pitot tube inlet will drop significantly above Mach 1.4, so I don’t think the gust can cruise at supersonic speed. Here, the gust is essentially a fourth Generation fighter, although its design has a lot of brilliance,
In the face of J20 and SU57, the fifth-generation fighter aircraft that uses multi-vortex coupling technology, the gust is destined to have no chance.
 

randomradio

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I think it will be soon. According to China’s experience in changing to the J16, one brigade in each theater will be replaced first. This year we can see the J20 deployed in the western theater.

Yes. So 24 J-20s against 18 Rafales in Hotan, and a similar number in another sector in Lhasa. Probably 2022 and 2023-24. So 48 J-20s against 36 Rafales.

Next comes the J-20 with 18-19T engines. Expect flight testing by 2023, deliveries by 2025-26, WTC's turn for deployment by 2027 at the minimum. Bring in a delay of 1 year to 2028. It's pretty reasonable to expect the main J-20 in the WTC by 2028, with another regiment in 2029.

And I think you overestimate the Rafale fighter. For example, the Rafale can supersonic cruise. First of all, all supersonic cruises cannot be equipped with external missiles and pods, because this will form a huge shock wave resistance. Secondly, the gust uses a Pitot tube inlet. The air intake efficiency will drop significantly at Mach 1.4, and the performance of F16 with Pitot tube inlet will drop significantly above Mach 1.4, so I don’t think the gust can cruise at supersonic speed. Here, the gust is essentially a fourth Generation fighter, although its design has a lot of brilliance,
In the face of J20 and SU57, the fifth-generation fighter aircraft that uses multi-vortex coupling technology, the gust is destined to have no chance.

Rafale can supercruise at mach 1.4 with 4 missiles and a drop tank.
 
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AbRaj

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In the face of J20 and SU57, the fifth-generation fighter aircraft that uses multi-vortex coupling technology, the gust is destined to have no chance.
All the Aircrafts with compound wing designs like those with Canards, LERX, and LEVCONS etc do utilise Votex manipulation (including vortex coupling for higher lift generation) for gaining lift and AoA advantages. J20 and J10 both are canard delta designs just like EFT, Rafale,Gripen and MWF etc. Newer more sophisticated designs like F22 and F35 with LEREX and Su 57's LEVCONS are considered much more complex designs than CCDs and also less radar reflective.
So J20 and Su 57 are two entirely different design philosophies and having a huge difference in terms of of aerodynamic and radar stealth characteristics.
One Big advantage J20 have over rafale is its huge size with bigger IWBs giving it a higher weapon carrying capability without compromising on stealth and a bigger nose cone accomodating bigger AESA radar than Rafale. And with Engine Upgrade it will have on par TWR, giving it maneuverability comparable to other fighters of its class. That said I wont underestimate Rafales ability to do well against something like J20.
 
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xxxxx

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Yes. So 24 J-20s against 18 Rafales in Hotan, and a similar number in another sector in Lhasa. Probably 2022 and 2023-24. So 48 J-20s against 36 Rafales.

Next comes the J-20 with 18-19T engines. Expect flight testing by 2023, deliveries by 2025-26, WTC's turn for deployment by 2027 at the minimum. Bring in a delay of 1 year to 2028. It's pretty reasonable to expect the main J-20 in the WTC by 2028, with another regiment in 2029.
There are rumors that Pakistan’s J10C may be the last batch of J10C, and Chengdu will gradually shift to J20 production in the future.
Secondly, I don’t think J20 will be deployed in Hotan, which is too close to the border.
It should be deployed at the 111th Aviation Brigade in Korla,
For the eastern route, I think it will be deployed in Sichuan, Lhasa is also close to the border, and the payload of the plateau aircraft will be reduced by 30%.
The most important task of J20 is penetrating air control, using high stealth to strike important battlefield nodes in India, such as early warning aircraft and ground radar stations, large electronic jammers,
Without the support of these battlefield nodes, the Rafale is actually no different from the MIG29 in the Gulf War era. It is difficult to grasp the air situation only by airborne radar.
There is also a standard aviation brigade with 32 fighters, not 24
Rafale can supercruise at mach 1.4 with 4 missiles and a drop tank.
Maybe, more information will be revealed in the future
 

randomradio

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There are rumors that Pakistan’s J10C may be the last batch of J10C, and Chengdu will gradually shift to J20 production in the future.
Secondly, I don’t think J20 will be deployed in Hotan, which is too close to the border.
It should be deployed at the 111th Aviation Brigade in Korla,
For the eastern route, I think it will be deployed in Sichuan, Lhasa is also close to the border, and the payload of the plateau aircraft will be reduced by 30%.
The most important task of J20 is penetrating air control, using high stealth to strike important battlefield nodes in India, such as early warning aircraft and ground radar stations, large electronic jammers,
Without the support of these battlefield nodes, the Rafale is actually no different from the MIG29 in the Gulf War era. It is difficult to grasp the air situation only by airborne radar.
There is also a standard aviation brigade with 32 fighters, not 24

Maybe, more information will be revealed in the future

Yeah, it makes sense to deploy the J-20s from farther bases. But that gives a huge advantage to our fighters.

Rafale has enough capability to go into battle without external support. It doesn't require assistance from AWACS, dedicated jammers etc.

A standard aviation brigade has 3 regiments. Each regiment has 24-32 fighters, but the numbers are not fixed. For just one variant it's 24, like the case of Su-35 or J-16. The two-seat J-20 is still quite far away from introduction. So a standard fighting unit is 12 jets per squadron, and 2 of those make a regiment, so 24.
 

xxxxx

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.
All the Aircrafts with compound wing designs like those with Canards, LERX, and LEVCONS etc do utilise Votex manipulation (including vortex coupling for higher lift generation) for gaining lift and AoA advantages. J20 and J10 both are canard delta designs just like EFT, Rafale,Gripen and MWF etc. Newer more sophisticated designs like F22 and F35 with LEREX and Su 57's LEVCONS are considered much more complex designs than CCDs and also less radar reflective.
So J20 and Su 57 are two entirely different design philosophies and having a huge difference in terms of of aerodynamic and radar stealth characteristics.
One Big advantage J20 have over rafale is its huge size with bigger IWBs giving it a higher weapon carrying capability without compromising on stealth and a bigger nose cone accomodating bigger AESA radar than Rafale. And with Engine Upgrade it will have on par TWR, giving it maneuverability comparable to other fighters of its class. That said I wont underestimate Rafales ability to do well against something like J20.
I’m not sure if I understand what you mean, many nouns I don’t know
Let me explain why J20 uses multi-vortex coupling technology.
The J20 you mentioned is a canard wing layout, which is not accurate. J20 is a canard wing plus side strip wing design.
The J20, like the British Typhoon fighter, adopts a long-distance coupled canard layout, and the trim torque is relatively long, but simply increasing the distance between the canard and the main wing will damage the fighter’s maneuverability at low speeds and large elevation angles, because The vortex effect produced by any canard will weaken as the distance increases. At the same time, for the purpose of stealth, the canard and the main wing are arranged at the same height, so this weakening is even more severe.
Therefore, the Typhoon fighter added a spoiler between the canard and the main wing to increase the vortex lift, while the J2O used side strip wing to improve this problem through the side strip vortex. The side strip vortex delays the J20 nose vortex and Rupture of canard vortex
At the same time, the wing of the J-20 does not only play a role in low speed conditions. Because the J20 adopts variable camber and variable airfoil design, it can cooperate with the main wing under supersonic flight conditions to effectively reduce the shock resistance in the supersonic region. At the same time, it can also reduce the change of the aerodynamic center of the whole machine when accelerating from subsonic speed to supersonic speed, which can reduce the trim resistance.
At the same time, the J20 adopts a diamond-shaped nose design like other fifth-generation machines, which can generate eddy currents.
There is a small angle between the main wing and the side strip wing of the J20. This angle can pull out the vortex to increase the lift of the main wing surface. At the same time, it will be further coupled with the side strip vortex when the elevation angle is exceeded.
In summary, the J20 may be the world’s most vortex-coupled and complex aerodynamic design. Simply put, the nose vortex of the J20 is coupled with the canard vortex. Under the guidance and fusion of the edge vortex, the angle of the main wing will be separated from the body. The vortices merge and blow the surface of the main wing. Through the application of multi-vortex coupling, the J20's maneuverability is increased to a very high level. The Rafale fighter only provides a vortex to increase lift by using the detachment vortex. Auxiliary maneuver, its aerodynamic principle is quite simple
 

randomradio

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.I’m not sure if I understand what you mean, many nouns I don’t know
Let me explain why J20 uses multi-vortex coupling technology.
The J20 you mentioned is a canard wing layout, which is not accurate. J20 is a canard wing plus side strip wing design.

The so-called "side strip" is what's called LERX. So canard-LERX-delta.

The J20, like the British Typhoon fighter, adopts a long-distance coupled canard layout, and the trim torque is relatively long, but simply increasing the distance between the canard and the main wing will damage the fighter’s maneuverability at low speeds and large elevation angles, because The vortex effect produced by any canard will weaken as the distance increases. At the same time, for the purpose of stealth, the canard and the main wing are arranged at the same height, so this weakening is even more severe.
Therefore, the Typhoon fighter added a spoiler between the canard and the main wing to increase the vortex lift, while the J2O used side strip wing to improve this problem through the side strip vortex. The side strip vortex delays the J20 nose vortex and Rupture of canard vortex
At the same time, the wing of the J-20 does not only play a role in low speed conditions. Because the J20 adopts variable camber and variable airfoil design, it can cooperate with the main wing under supersonic flight conditions to effectively reduce the shock resistance in the supersonic region. At the same time, it can also reduce the change of the aerodynamic center of the whole machine when accelerating from subsonic speed to supersonic speed, which can reduce the trim resistance.
At the same time, the J20 adopts a diamond-shaped nose design like other fifth-generation machines, which can generate eddy currents.
There is a small angle between the main wing and the side strip wing of the J20. This angle can pull out the vortex to increase the lift of the main wing surface. At the same time, it will be further coupled with the side strip vortex when the elevation angle is exceeded.
In summary, the J20 may be the world’s most vortex-coupled and complex aerodynamic design. Simply put, the nose vortex of the J20 is coupled with the canard vortex. Under the guidance and fusion of the edge vortex, the angle of the main wing will be separated from the body. The vortices merge and blow the surface of the main wing. Through the application of multi-vortex coupling, the J20's maneuverability is increased to a very high level. The Rafale fighter only provides a vortex to increase lift by using the detachment vortex. Auxiliary maneuver, its aerodynamic principle is quite simple

@Picdelamirand-oil
Any comments?
 
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xxxxx

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Rafale has enough capability to go into battle without external support. It doesn't require assistance from AWACS, dedicated jammers etc.
Rafale fighters are not gods. Even the F35 can only play a role in the American C4I system. Of course, the United States has proposed a mosaic warfare theory due to the J20 threat. There is no battlefield node. The F35 is used to realize early warning aircraft cloud detection, cloud computing, and cloud attacks. Marks the war from the information age to the artificial intelligence age
Yeah, it makes sense to deploy the J-20s from farther bases. But that gives a huge advantage to our fighters.
In fact, starting from Doklam in 2017, both China and India are preparing for the next war. Airports in Tibet and Xinjiang are speeding up construction. According to the operational theory of the Chinese Air Force, there must be a large number of J10s on the front line to guarantee air superiority at the front. I think J10C is in In the face of Rafale fighters, they can complete the interception mission.
A standard aviation brigade has 3 regiments. Each regiment has 24-32 fighters, but the numbers are not fixed. For just one variant it's 24, like the case of Su-35 or J-16. The two-seat J-20 is still quite far away from introduction. So a standard fighting unit is 12 jets per squadron, and 2 of those make a regiment, so 24.
First of all, after China’s military reform in 2016, China is a base-brigade system. One base is responsible for one campaign direction. It can independently organize large-scale air campaigns. It has multiple fighters, transport aircraft, and bomber units. There are two bases in the western theater.
And often a fighter brigade has several brigade, each brigade has 8 fighters, and generally each brigade has 4 brigade under its jurisdiction, so it is 32.
 
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randomradio

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Rafale fighters are not gods. Even the F35 can only play a role in the American C4I system. Of course, the United States has proposed a mosaic warfare theory due to the J20 threat. There is no battlefield node. The F35 is used to realize early warning aircraft cloud detection, cloud computing, and cloud attacks. Marks the war from the information age to the artificial intelligence age

Rafale has been made to do everything without support, except mid-air refuelling.

The F-35 is the same. It's actually why the Americans didn't bother doing much about allowing them to communicate effectively with other assets. So, while all previous gen systems are now on TTNT, the F-22 and F-35 are still using Link 16.

First of all, after China’s military reform in 2016, China is a base-brigade system. One base is responsible for one campaign direction. It can independently organize large-scale air campaigns. It has multiple fighters, transport aircraft, and bomber units. There are two bases in the western theater.
And often a fighter brigade has several brigade, each brigade has 8 fighters, and generally each brigade has 4 brigade under its jurisdiction, so it is 32.

Are you using a translator? The last line didn't make sense.
 

AbRaj

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I’m not sure if I understand what you mean, many nouns I don’t know
Let me explain why J20 uses multi-vortex coupling technology.
The J20 you mentioned is a canard wing layout, which is not accurate. J20 is a canard wing plus side strip wing design.
The J20, like the British Typhoon fighter, adopts a long-distance coupled canard layout, and the trim torque is relatively long, but simply increasing the distance between the canard and the main wing will damage the fighter’s maneuverability at low speeds and large elevation angles, because The vortex effect produced by any canard will weaken as the distance increases. At the same time, for the purpose of stealth, the canard and the main wing are arranged at the same height, so this weakening is even more severe.
Therefore, the Typhoon fighter added a spoiler between the canard and the main wing to increase the vortex lift, while the J2O used side strip wing to improve this problem through the side strip vortex. The side strip vortex delays the J20 nose vortex and Rupture of canard vortex
At the same time, the wing of the J-20 does not only play a role in low speed conditions. Because the J20 adopts variable camber and variable airfoil design, it can cooperate with the main wing under supersonic flight conditions to effectively reduce the shock resistance in the supersonic region. At the same time, it can also reduce the change of the aerodynamic center of the whole machine when accelerating from subsonic speed to supersonic speed, which can reduce the trim resistance.
At the same time, the J20 adopts a diamond-shaped nose design like other fifth-generation machines, which can generate eddy currents.
There is a small angle between the main wing and the side strip wing of the J20. This angle can pull out the vortex to increase the lift of the main wing surface. At the same time, it will be further coupled with the side strip vortex when the elevation angle is exceeded.
In summary, the J20 may be the world’s most vortex-coupled and complex aerodynamic design. Simply put, the nose vortex of the J20 is coupled with the canard vortex. Under the guidance and fusion of the edge vortex, the angle of the main wing will be separated from the body. The vortices merge and blow the surface of the main wing. Through the application of multi-vortex coupling, the J20's maneuverability is increased to a very high level. The Rafale fighter only provides a vortex to increase lift by using the detachYes , J20 uses both LE


yes, j20 uses both Canards and LERX, unlike Su 57 that integrates both into one structure as LEVCONS and therefore Aerodynamically much more superior compared to J20.



during maneuvering

 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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The so-called "side strip" is what's called LERX. So canard-LERX-delta.



@Picdelamirand-oil
Any comments?
Frankly I don't know if @xxxxx is right, I have never read such an explanation for the J20.

But let's suppose that it is true, then the complexity of the principle makes the solution rather fragile, which is justified if there are no other solutions but which is a risk to take into account if there are other solutions. In relation to the Rafale, such a risk can be justified by the need to combine stealth and aerodynamic qualities. We preferred active stealth, and this is a long-term choice that was difficult to make in 2000 and easier to defend today.

To illustrate what I mean by "a rather fragile solution", I would point out that the Rafale's FCS is a very important complement to its aerodynamic formula, which allows, for example, dynamic management of the center of thrust, which facilitates the dropping of heavy or asymmetrical loads, and which can partially compensate for flight qualities degraded by damage or failure. It is obvious that if the aerodynamic formula is too complex this kind of possibility will be difficult to implement.
 

xxxxx

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yes, j20 uses both Canards and LERX, unlike Su 57 that integrates both into one structure as LEVCONS and therefore Aerodynamically much more superior compared to J20.



during maneuvering

LEVCONS is the biggest design highlight of su57
There are two main works: 1. It generates vortex to increase lift; 2. It enhances the ability of pitch control. The vortex can be controlled by deflection, which can change the vortex flow and make it better adhere to the upper surface of the wing. Improve maneuverability at large elevation angles
1641081263676.jpeg

The vortex system of the Su 57 is actually relatively simple. Due to the limitation of the length of the nose, the vortex of the Su 57 is actually relatively weak.
As shown in the picture, the faint blue color produced by the nose disappears at the link between the rear of the cockpit and the fuselage.
In fact, this is because of the limitations of existing human science, and it is not possible to give a mathematical model of multi-vortex coupling with high availability. The existing multi-vortex coupling is based on a large number of wind tunnel tests and flight tests. For Russia, there is no money,
1641081921218.jpeg

LEVCONS can make the vortex better adhere to the wing surface at large elevation angles. It can also be regarded as the single vortex system of the fourth-generation fighter to its limit.
1641082212054.jpeg

From this picture, it can be seen that LEVCONS has less influence on the supersonic and subsonic range, but has a greater influence on the transonic range.At the same time, it can be seen that LEVCONS has a greater influence on the pitch moment, so the main improvement of LEVCONS is the roll performance of the aircraft.
 
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WHOHE

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Rafale can supercruise at mach 1.4 with 4 missiles and a drop tank.

No it can't! You know who are the only people that boast about the french planes "super cruise" capabilities..? Messageboard fanboys. Dassault doesn't even boast about it or mention it. Didn't bring it up to the Egyptians, Greeks, UAE, India and other nations defense officials because they are not forum fanboys. Only one fighter boast of its SP capability and that is the F-22. If the F-22 was available for export years ago you can bet one of LM selling points would be its SP ability of which Dassault doesn't do.

Dassault does what USAF has done with their 4th gen fighters and that is uses the performance numbers of their prototype or A model fighters up to their latest variants which are much heavier. F-16 block 52 (clean) can't reach mach 2.0+ anymore it barely reached mach 1.9 in a down angle and only for seconds in a recent test. Dassault is using its A model numbers.

The demonstrator was initially powered by General Electric F404-GE-400 afterburning turbofans from the F/A-18 Hornet, instead of the Snecma M88, to reduce the risk that often comes with a first flight, and since the M88 was not considered sufficiently mature for the initial trials programme.[3][16] It was not until May 1990 when the M88 replaced the port F404 in the demonstrator to enable the aircraft to reach Mach 1.4 and demonstrate supercruise, or sustained supersonic flight without use of afterburners. After 865 flights with four pilots, Rafale A was retired in January 1994.

A fighter like the french plane which has a top speed of mach 1.8 (CLEAN CONFIGURATION) is not going to all of a sudden SP with 4 missiles and a center tank... well maybe on a 40 degree down angle which F-16s have demonstrated.

This is the fighter that randomradio talks about SP...
86_3401_6i.jpg


Since then the french plane has gotten a lot heavier and hasn't (According to Safran CEO) received an engine thrust upgrade since it entered service but somehow it can SP with 4 missiles and a center tank? Puh-leeze! I will say this randomradio is thee only person here that believes this BS and loves to claim the french plane can SP.

Btw the top speed number of mach 1.8 was done on the prototype/A model but so was the F-18E prototype which means current french planes and F-18E block II will struggle to reach mach 1.8 in clean configuration.

mcdonnel_superhornet.jpg

 
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xxxxx

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Frankly I don't know if @xxxxx is right, I have never read such an explanation for the J20.

But let's suppose that it is true, then the complexity of the principle makes the solution rather fragile, which is justified if there are no other solutions but which is a risk to take into account if there are other solutions. In relation to the Rafale, such a risk can be justified by the need to combine stealth and aerodynamic qualities. We preferred active stealth, and this is a long-term choice that was difficult to make in 2000 and easier to defend today.

To illustrate what I mean by "a rather fragile solution", I would point out that the Rafale's FCS is a very important complement to its aerodynamic formula, which allows, for example, dynamic management of the center of thrust, which facilitates the dropping of heavy or asymmetrical loads, and which can partially compensate for flight qualities degraded by damage or failure. It is obvious that if the aerodynamic formula is too complex this kind of possibility will be difficult to implement.
This is a paper by the chief designer of J10. It was published in 2001. This paper explains the aerodynamic principle of J20 multi-vortex coupling. I also briefly summarize it. If you are interested, you can read it in English.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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No it can't! You know who are the only people that boast about the french planes "super cruise" capabilities..? Messageboard fanboys. Dassault doesn't even boast about it or mention it. Didn't bring it up to the Egyptians, Greeks, UAE, India and other nations defense officials because they are not forum fanboys. Only one fighter boast of its SP capability and that is the F-22. If the F-22 was available for export years ago you can bet one of LM selling points would be its SP ability of which Dassault doesn't do.

Dassault does what USAF has done with their 4th gen fighters and that is uses the performance numbers of their prototype or A model fighters up to their latest variants which are much heavier. F-16 block 52 (clean) can't reach mach 2.0+ anymore it barely reached mach 1.9 in a down angle and only for seconds in a recent test. Dassault is using its A model numbers.

The demonstrator was initially powered by General Electric F404-GE-400 afterburning turbofans from the F/A-18 Hornet, instead of the Snecma M88, to reduce the risk that often comes with a first flight, and since the M88 was not considered sufficiently mature for the initial trials programme.[3][16] It was not until May 1990 when the M88 replaced the port F404 in the demonstrator to enable the aircraft to reach Mach 1.4 and demonstrate supercruise, or sustained supersonic flight without use of afterburners. After 865 flights with four pilots, Rafale A was retired in January 1994.

A fighter like the french plane which has a top speed of mach 1.8 (CLEAN CONFIGURATION) is not going to all of a sudden SP with 4 missiles and a center tank... well maybe on a 40 degree down angle which F-16s have demonstrated.

This is the fighter that randomradio talks about SP...
View attachment 22376

Since then the french plane has gotten a lot heavier and hasn't (According to Safran CEO) received an engine thrust upgrade since it entered service but somehow it can SP with 4 missiles and a center tank? Puh-leeze! I will say this randomradio is thee only person here that believes this BS and loves to claim the french plane can SP.

Btw the top speed number of mach 1.8 was done on the prototype/A model but so was the F-18E prototype which means current french planes and F-18E block II will struggle to reach mach 1.8 in clean configuration.

View attachment 22377

It's touching to see that some Americans are so interested in French aircraft that they know their performance better than Dassault.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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It's touching to see that some Americans are so interested in French aircraft that they know their performance better than Dassault.
The only problem is that the Americans are convinced that we can't do better than them and they can't accept the reality when we prove them wrong, because from their point of view they are infallible, for example during a debriefing of the naval air force after a campaign in Syria/Iraq, the Rafale pilots explained that the US planners took several missions before admitting that they could ask the Rafale to go far (they had to understand "farther than the F18"). :cool: :D
 
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Lolwa

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There are rumors that Pakistan’s J10C may be the last batch of J10C, and Chengdu will gradually shift to J20 production in the future.
Secondly, I don’t think J20 will be deployed in Hotan, which is too close to the border.
It should be deployed at the 111th Aviation Brigade in Korla,
For the eastern route, I think it will be deployed in Sichuan, Lhasa is also close to the border, and the payload of the plateau aircraft will be reduced by 30%.
The most important task of J20 is penetrating air control, using high stealth to strike important battlefield nodes in India, such as early warning aircraft and ground radar stations, large electronic jammers,
Without the support of these battlefield nodes, the Rafale is actually no different from the MIG29 in the Gulf War era. It is difficult to grasp the air situation only by airborne radar.
There is also a standard aviation brigade with 32 fighters, not 24

Maybe, more information will be revealed in the future
I agree with most of what you've written but I have huge doubts on Rafale being like the Iraqi mig 29. Even our mig 21's are better than what Iraqi mig 29's were. Rafale have much greater situational awareness compared to the relatively blind mig 29's of the Iraqis. Plus China hasn't shown any impressive EW or SEAD capabilities like the U.S did in Iraq.