MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • JSF F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 27 12.5%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 169 78.2%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.4%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.8%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • SH F-18

    Votes: 10 4.6%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 5 2.3%

  • Total voters
    216

Lolwa

Senior member
Feb 6, 2020
1,555
1,004
Delhi
$500Milliions is a very small amount for India's defense procurement and I don't think it's having any relation with Russia. The USA is India's biggest trading partner where we see employment and future growth "$$". IN will decide which is the best platform for them, I think we shouldn't waste time on the fighter ecosystem for a small number. DRDO and HAL are on the right track to develop indigenous platforms for IN and IAF.
At best it can be invested in para sf and RR. Buying small arms, gear, optics and NVG's. But the government will reject it. You can buy MRAP's at best . The Abrams can't really replace t-72's or t-90's. You can buy mq1 or mq-9's but a single mq9 costs atleast 100 million $ each.
Maybe smart munitions can be bought and integrated on tejas like sdb-2, agm-65 or something. 500 million is just too small a amount for replacing any serious system.
 
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TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
697
579
At best it can be invested in para sf and RR. Buying small arms, gear, optics and NVG's. But the government will reject it. You can buy MRAP's at best . The Abrams can't really replace t-72's or t-90's. You can buy mq1 or mq-9's but a single mq9 costs atleast 100 million $ each.
Maybe smart munitions can be bought and integrated on tejas like sdb-2, agm-65 or something. 500 million is just too small a amount for replacing any serious system.
If we are planning to purchase something with money ...we should go for the drone killer technology if they have one because that's the future of warfare also Apache and Chinook are always on the priority list.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
3,454
4,055
73
France

RAFALE WAY AHEAD

Development of a new, F4 standard started in December 2018.

The policy underpinning the Rafale program is based on continuous development of new standards to adapt the aircraft to technology advances and operational feedback. The new connectivity solutions in the F4 standard will further improve effectiveness in net-centric combat and pave the way for the Future Combat Air System (FCAS).

This standard will also include radar and Front Sector Optronics (FSO) upgrades, helmet-mounted sight capabilities, Mica-NG air-to-air missiles and 1,000kg AASM/Hammer air-to-surface weapons. An initial version of the F4 standard will be available in 2022. The full standard will be delivered in 2024.

Looking further ahead


Studies are under way to ensure that within the next decade, new Rafale standards are equipped with air-to-air and air-to-ground capabilities adapted to tomorrow’s net-centric operations.

These capabilities will ensure detection, tracking and identification of emerging air-to-air threats and enhance the Rafale’s survivability thanks to new low-observable modes and a cutting edge electronic warfare system.

Air-to-surface modes, meanwhile, will benefit from assisted target recognition algorithms and enhanced sensor resolution to attack ever more elusive targets.

Finally, the network capabilities of the Rafale will be further extended to ensure that it continues to play a leading role in tomorrow’s net-centric battlespace.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
3,454
4,055
73
France

BUILT-IN SUPPORTABILITY

The Rafale supportability and mission readiness claims are supported by the undisputed track record of the earlier generation of French fighters, such as the combat-proven Mirage 2000.

From the early beginning of the development phase, the French MoD assigned very stringent “integrated logistic support” (ILS) requirements to the Rafale programme. “Computer aided design” (CAD) with the Dassault Systèmes CATIA software suite, concurrent engineering and bold technological choices ultimately produced an ILS system that exceeds the original supportability requirements.

The following examples, selected from a range of unique and innovative features, demonstrate the advance in reliability, accessibility and maintainability brought by the Rafale:

  • Based on 20 years plus of experience gained on the Mirage 2000, integrated testability of the Weapon Delivery and Navigation System (WDNS) has proven itself. Accordingly, it has been decided on the Rafale to extend it to all aircraft systems. Thanks to accurate and comprehensive testability features, it allows targeted replacements to be made on the flight line, down to electronic circuit boards and specific components.
  • Human factors engineering work has been conducted with CATIA in order to ensure the accessibility of the components within aircraft bays, so that all flight line operations can be carried out by a single Special attention has been paid to minimizing the duration of these operations and the occurrence of errors.
  • The centralised armament safety system makes all safety pins and last chance / end- of-runway actions unnecessary, minimising the risk of errors and accidents, and contributing to achieve an unbeatable “turn-around time” (TAT).
  • Precision manufacturing techniques together with the use of CATIA eliminate time- consuming boresighting procedures following cannon, head-up display (HUD) or radar exchanges.
  • With the M88 engine, it is no longer necessary to perform checks on an engine test bench before reinstalling an engine on an The M88’s groundbreaking design means that the engine can be changed and the aircraft can take off again within an hour.
To allow the Rafale the greatest possible autonomy during deployments, it requires only minimum ground support equipment:
  • The Rafale is fitted with an on-board oxygen generation system (OBOGS) which suppresses the need for liquid oxygen re-filling. Ground support equipment for the production and transportation of oxygen is no longer required.
  • Optronics are cooled by a closed-loop nitrogen circuit, which negates the need for a dedicated nitrogen supply.
  • The built-in auxiliary power unit (APU) makes engine start-up possible even when no ground power cart is available.
  • All ground support equipment is compact and foldable in order to be easily transportable by It can be used without external power. And only two types of carriages and cradles are necessary to perform all armament loading / unloading.
All of these maintainability features were validated from the development phase by French Navy and Air Force support specialists, and have demonstrated their reliability in combat during various operations. This ease of maintenance means that technicians can be trained quickly: Rafale conversion training and aircraft support was organized for an export client within a matter of weeks, providing the client with the operating autonomy it needed to successfully deploy its fleet.

AN AFFORDABLE HIGH-TECH FIGHTER​

Thanks to its outstanding reliability, the Rafale has lower maintenance costs.
  • Its unique maintenance concept results in a lighter scheduled maintenance plan with less man-hours and a smaller number of maintenance plan with less man-hours and a smaller number of maintenance technicians.
  • The Rafale does not have to leave its operational base for maintenance Unlike on other types of fighter aircraft, the Rafale airframe and engine no longer require time-consuming and costly periodic depot-level inspections.
  • With more than 3,300 flight hours logged by Rafale “fleet leaders”, no structural parts have been changed, proving the robustness of the airframe and the maintenance concept costs.
  • A case in point is the modular M88 engine, made up of 21 modules: all maintenance and repair can be done by returning nothing more than modules or discrete parts to the depot or to the manufacturer. No balancing procedure and no run-up check are necessary before returning the engine to service.

Failure-prone systems have been eliminated early on in the design process:
  • there is no airbrake
  • the air intakes have no moving parts
  • the ac generators do not have any constant speed drive (CSD)
  • and the refuelling probe is fixed in order to avoid any deployment or retraction problem.
This results in reduced spares inventory, less man-hours and less ground support equipment.
Rafale deployments have confirmed that specialized infrastructures are unnecessary, even in cases of intensive use: maintenance can be performed outdoors or in a temporary shelter.

Another source of reduction of the required spares inventory comes from the constant standardisation approach during the design phase,
  • The same part number is used at various locations on the airframe: this is made possible with precision airframe manufacturing which allows to suppress fitting and boresighting operations when installing airframe components.
  • Left-hand and right-hand parts are identical wherever applicable (i.e. foreplanes, FCS actuators).
  • Miscellaneous parts such as screws and electronic modules have also been included into the standardisation effort.
The required spares inventory is further reduced by adapting the troubleshooting procedures to allow the exchange of electronic circuit boards within “line replaceable units” (LRUs), rather than exchanging the LRUs: this applies to the RBE2 radar, the SPECTRA EW suite, the MDPU mission computer and to other equipment as well.
Special attention has been paid to accessibility issues: for instance, the side- opening canopy facilitates the replacement of the ejection seat, so that two technicians can perform its removal in 10 minutes only.
No heavy test equipment is needed around the Rafale on the flight line: All checks at this level can be run by maintenance technicians on the aircraft itself.
No test bench is needed for the M88 engine, a remarkable first in fighter aircraft itself.

Based on significant experience in corrosion protection for carrier-based aircraft (SUPER ETENDARD) and maritime patrol aircraft (ATLANTIC 1/ ATLANTIQUE 2), Dassault Aviation has developed new advanced corrosion protection processes which help drive down the cost of maintenance of the Rafale: corrosion issues discovered during maintenance being the perfect “show stopper” which exceeds spending targets and delays the return of aircraft to service in the most unpredictable way.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
3,823
3,679
Bangalore
At best it can be invested in para sf and RR. Buying small arms, gear, optics and NVG's. But the government will reject it. You can buy MRAP's at best . The Abrams can't really replace t-72's or t-90's. You can buy mq1 or mq-9's but a single mq9 costs atleast 100 million $ each.
Maybe smart munitions can be bought and integrated on tejas like sdb-2, agm-65 or something. 500 million is just too small a amount for replacing any serious system.
500 million USD discount 10 years back would have led accelerated buys of C17s, C130s more AH64s more CH47 and upto 500 M777s.

Now it's useless. Maybe give this as a discount for P8I and get an order for 6. That's the only viable deal now.
 

Hydra

Senior member
May 19, 2020
2,756
1,319
Mumbai
500 million USD discount 10 years back would have led accelerated buys of C17s, C130s more AH64s more CH47 and upto 500 M777s.

Now it's useless. Maybe give this as a discount for P8I and get an order for 6. That's the only viable deal now.
M777, P-8I, & Apache is useless? Still relevant.
Even ULH developed by bharat forge is not as light as M777. If i am not wrong, BAE started to work on new 52 cal M777 variant. And no alternate solution does exist in India for p8 &Apache.
 

RISING SUN

Senior member
Dec 3, 2017
12,745
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Screenshot_20220509_230255.jpg
 
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Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
3,823
3,679
Bangalore
New tender to be issued by 2022 end.

IMO if this is what they are trying, it's better to buy 36 Rafales off the shelf and go full throttle on ORCA.
 
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lcafanboy

Senior member
Dec 22, 2017
2,335
2,561
Bangalore
Advantage Rafale... as Dassault has already invested in DRAL which is capable of assembling Rafale in India as no other vendor will be able to fulfill this clause....

Also most probably it also means we are on the verge of placing next lot of 57 Rafales order very soon along with 26 super Hornet for Navy both arriving in India in tandem by 2025-26...
 
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Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
3,823
3,679
Bangalore
I put forward a motion to start a thread MMRCA 3.0.
Advantage Rafale... as Dassault has already invested in DRAL which is capable of assembling Rafale in India as no other vendor will be able to fulfill this clause....

Also most probably it also means we are on the verge of placing next lot of 57 Rafales order very soon along with 26 super Hornet for Navy both arriving in India in tandem by 2025-26...
😂😂😂

No entity will put up an assembly line for orders worth less than 10 years. If we force , then it will be 57 jets assembled over 8-10 years.

Plus new tender competition is to be out by 2022 end according to the same source.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
3,823
3,679
Bangalore
This 57 aircraft order will go to rafale and Navy's order will go to SH-18blk3
In 2025 maybe.
Indian AirForce slashes its Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) Programme by half, set to reboot acquisition under a different procurement category.


I put forward a motion to start a thread MMRCA 3.0.

😂😂😂
 

lcafanboy

Senior member
Dec 22, 2017
2,335
2,561
Bangalore
I put forward a motion to start a thread MMRCA 3.0.

😂😂😂

No entity will put up an assembly line for orders worth less than 10 years. If we force , then it will be 57 jets assembled over 8-10 years.

Plus new tender competition is to be out by 2022 end according to the same source.
I specifically said assembled in India.. it means Dassault will ship CKD to DRAL and DRAL will use screwdriver to assemble those 57 in India.

Loji ho gaya modiji ka jhumla poora "make in India " atmanirbhar Bharat... 😂😂

Bloody French have still not completes offset for the first 36 Rafale order even after all the 36 contracted Rafales been delivered.

The only way out is rubbing grinding your a-ss doing R&D to develop our own range of fighter planes. IAF should put all their might behind TEDBF to develop OCRA a Rafale equivalent fighter plane by 2032....
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
3,823
3,679
Bangalore
I specifically said assembled in India.. it means Dassault will ship CKD to DRAL and DRAL will use screwdriver to assemble those 57 in India.

Loji ho gaya modiji ka jhumla poora "make in India " atmanirbhar Bharat... 😂😂

Bloody French have still not completes offset for the first 36 Rafale order even after all the 36 contracted Rafales been delivered.

The only way out is rubbing grinding your a-ss doing R&D to develop our own range of fighter planes. IAF should put all their might behind TEDBF to develop OCRA a Rafale equivalent fighter plane by 2032....
Simple licence production should have been done.

I have said again and again the best ToT ever happened was the Su30MKI deal. Nothing ever will surpass that. Ever.

Ideally by now we should have been flying 189 Rafales. But alas.
No, the F-35 will win and the Americans will choose DRAL as their partner to produce the planes. :ROFLMAO:

It's a circus created to ensure our entertainment for 30 years. So 10 more years to go.

Incompetence at IAF, at MoD and at PMO level.
 

Sathya

Senior member
Dec 2, 2017
2,589
1,528
India
With combined 57 + 26 = 83,
Rafale previous order 36 , 83+36 = 119 .
Doesn't it qualify for completion of MMRCA?

Hellfire in twitter thinks in terms of F18 for both IN & IAF. Purchase + lease.
 
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