MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • JSF F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 27 12.5%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 169 78.2%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.4%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.8%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • SH F-18

    Votes: 10 4.6%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 5 2.3%

  • Total voters
    216

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,566
10,790
India
How in the hell does j-20 outperform the f35 in bvr. When it's RCS is closer to the Rafale with spectra on, rather than the f-35. You are completely wrong on this.

How do you know that? Who said the J-20's RCS isn't sufficient? The Pentagon definitely doesn't believe that.

Also how does a j-20 does an a2g mission better than the f-35.

Superior kinematics gives it shorter time for ingress/egress. It means the J-20 will be more efficient when it comes to weapons delivery. The same as the F-22. As for sensor package, that's debatable. But being a bigger aircraft allows quicker infusion of new technologies. Also, the Chinese R&D speed is pretty high, they are coming out with new variants every few years.

When it's the f-35 that has the option to use variety of stand off smart munitions that the Chinese haven't even developed like the jsm, som, Jassm-er, spear 3, stormbreaker And so on. The Chinese have nothing of that sort on the j20

The Chinese have plenty of American equivalents, like the LT, FT and LS class bombs. Their StormBreaker class bomb is called CM-506KG.

Article from 2012.

If India has developed equivalents, then why wouldn't China have done the same?

I realise it but does it matter when the Chinese most likely have a better and bigger radar with a more modern cockpit in use than the su-57.

Again, how do you know that? Bigger radar? More modern cockpit? What do you mean by all that? Even experts globally have only a general idea about both.
Lol. Are you a pakistani pretending to be Indian so that you can make Indians look dumb?

That is the most dumbest thing I've read and I've read just about every stupid claim about the F-35 but yours wins the dumb award. Congrats!
🥇

My opinion is shared by General Hostage too. So I'm good, thanks.
 
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Sathya

Senior member
Dec 2, 2017
2,590
1,528
India
Maybe this is related to the maintenance package for the American equipment that we use P8I to C17...It's not a significant amount but for customer relationships a reasonable amount. The next big announcement will be soon from MOD on IN Aircraft Purchase and this will be covered in that deal.
Maintenance deal doesn't weam away Russian weapons.
Maybe related to Army Or Airforce, where Russian weapons dominate.

Lack of US fighters eco system in India, becomes biggest hindrance in selling US planes by making it costly affair, not to mention the already existing Zoo of platforms.

If it were me, I will gift fighter jets to India.
 

TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
697
579
Maintenance deal doesn't weam away Russian weapons.
Maybe related to Army Or Airforce, where Russian weapons dominate.

Lack of US fighters eco system in India, becomes biggest hindrance in selling US planes by making it costly affair, not to mention the already existing Zoo of platforms.

If it were me, I will gift fighter jets to India.
$500Milliions is a very small amount for India's defense procurement and I don't think it's having any relation with Russia. The USA is India's biggest trading partner where we see employment and future growth "$$". IN will decide which is the best platform for them, I think we shouldn't waste time on the fighter ecosystem for a small number. DRDO and HAL are on the right track to develop indigenous platforms for IN and IAF.
 
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Sathya

Senior member
Dec 2, 2017
2,590
1,528
India
$500Milliions is a very small amount for India's defense procurement and I don't think it's having any relation with Russia. The USA is India's biggest trading partner where we see employment and future growth "$$". IN will decide which is the best platform for them, I think we shouldn't waste time on the fighter ecosystem for a small number. DRDO and HAL are on the right track to develop indigenous platforms for IN and IAF.
Yea amount is too low for even having a base accommodations.
Also some places it's aid, some places it's financing.
I certainly won't want our R&D programmes get side lined for receiving aid , like Israel gave up Lavi.
 

Hydra

Senior member
May 19, 2020
2,756
1,319
Mumbai
Yea amount is too low for even having a base accommodations.
Also some places it's aid, some places it's financing.
I certainly won't want our R&D programmes get side lined for receiving aid , like Israel gave up Lavi.
Chinese already flying with a gen 5 fighter, they will start fielding 6th gen by 2030-35 timeframe. We still stuck up with paper plane mk2,a gen 4 fighter. Our R&D is already in ICU. So forget about the so called indigenous efforts , face the reality, you cannot engage endlessly with mmrca2 tendering process. Go with what ever good is available in market.
 
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Sathya

Senior member
Dec 2, 2017
2,590
1,528
India
Chinese already flying with a gen 5 fighter, they will start fielding 6th gen by 2030-35 timeframe. We still stuck up with paper plane mk2,a gen 4 fighter. Our R&D is already in ICU. So forget about the so called indigenous efforts , face the reality, you cannot engage endlessly with mmrca2 tendering process. Go with what ever good is available in market.

They ll slow down from there, as there ll be not much to copy, and R& D will have to come out from their own.

We ll get Mk1A fully inducted within this decade. + Rafale ( atleast 72 nos.)
Mk2 1 or 2 squads
Within next decade we will induct Amca & tedbf.
And probably test flied another generation aircraft too.
And Imported few sqauds of plane from else where.

Seems good enough in 2 decades.
One plane for attacking, 3 for defending.
+ 1 foreign plane
 

suryakiran

Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
865
1,090
Bangalore
Chinese already flying with a gen 5 fighter, they will start fielding 6th gen by 2030-35 timeframe. We still stuck up with paper plane mk2,a gen 4 fighter. Our R&D is already in ICU. So forget about the so called indigenous efforts , face the reality, you cannot engage endlessly with mmrca2 tendering process. Go with what ever good is available in market.

Are you Ajai Shukla by any chance. Wherever opportunity presents itself, Amreeeeka!!!
 

TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
697
579
When will MMRCA 2.0 Happen? Come on man, Rafale is the best choice, just select Rafale and end this whole circus. I hope this tender does not end up like the 1st one.
It's a long-term investment as per the proposed plan and I don't see it as a good idea to block our funds on a single product. If MOD doesn't want to play Ping pong and is serious about the acquisitions of aircraft...another 36 Rafale will be a good option.
 

Hydra

Senior member
May 19, 2020
2,756
1,319
Mumbai
Are you Ajai Shukla by any chance. Wherever opportunity presents itself, Amreeeeka!!!
I am not, rather i am more realistic, unlike most Russian fan boys & domestic weapon industry fan boys. I can understand why people become a prey for propoganda from domestic industry, everyone including myself wants their country to be self reliant, but we have to accept the fact that we always strech the deadline, thet will be the case with upcoming 4th gen MK2, and Chinese had a habit of developing iton time. After 2030 there will be a gap of 2 generation in fighter jet arena if we didn't induct mmrca by then. Its like pakistan fighting us Mirage 3/5 our 36 numbers of Rafale.

Why peoples are Worshipping Russian weapons, i really dont know. Only indians will do this.
 
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Hydra

Senior member
May 19, 2020
2,756
1,319
Mumbai
A lot of people across many Indian defence forums are pro-Amreeka at the cost of India. Here, Other Forum, BRF.
Brute majority of Indians are Russian fan boys, only thing you need to do is open your eye & ears and look around. Even Russians will not defend Russian actions in Ukrain the way indians indians does, and the Russian weapon's failures.
 
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suryakiran

Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
865
1,090
Bangalore
I am not, rather i am more realistic, unlike most Russian fan boys & domestic weapon industry fan boys. I can understand why people become a prey for propoganda from domestic industry, everyone including myself wants their country to be self reliant, but we have to accept the fact that we always strech the deadline, thet will be the case with upcoming 4th gen MK2, and Chinese had a habit of developing iton time. After 2030 there will be a gap of 2 generation in fighter jet arena if we didn't induct mmrca by then. Its like pakistan fighting us Mirage 3/5 our 36 numbers of Rafale.

Why peoples are Worshipping Russian weapons, i really dont know. Only indians will do this.

Which is why the Rafale makes more sense, don't you think? Instead of advocating the use of F-15 which is nothing but the American variant of the Su-30?

The stretched timelines do not necessitate the need to buy American fighters. There are options available beyond that. Most Indians seem to forget what happens when you buy American frontline equipment. You cannot oppose their policies. This is something drilled into every Indian bureaucrat and military personnel. The time-line from 2024 to 2030 is when the IAF will be having a tough time. But again, these are issues not insurmountable. Any deal even if signed today will take 3-4 years to start deliveries. 2 years from there to develop tactics and train personnel. Why buy American equipment which already will be unusable against the Chinese in 10 years, when 6-7 years will go in learning how to use them?

Indian problems in aviation are linked to the engine. Which is why we are currently procuring the GE-404/414. If the engine issue is solved by joint development or help from Safran or RR, this makes far more sense than buying a full blown American fighter. Especially ones that are no longer deemed capable in a decade from now.

By the way, the reason the Chinese are able to do what you are saying today is because they took the hard route 15 years back. We take the short cut and do what you recommend we are back to the stage of the Marut.

People who blindly recommend American equipment are equally bad for the Indian ecosytem as are the ones who blindly cheer the Russians.
 
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Lolwa

Senior member
Feb 6, 2020
1,555
1,004
Delhi
When will MMRCA 2.0 Happen? Come on man, Rafale is the best choice, just select Rafale and end this whole circus. I hope this tender does not end up like the 1st one.
Realistically never. But chances are that the competition begins in 2024 so deal signing could be as soon as 2026.