Mirage 2000H, MiG-29UPG, Jaguar DARIN III - Medium Multirole Aircraft of IAF

Ashwin said:
2015-16
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In 2015 Egypt ordered 24 Rafales from us and by 2018 it already had 23. In mid-December 2015, Qatar ordered 24 Rafales from us, which came into force at the beginning of 2016 and in 2019, i.e. 3 years later, we delivered 19. India ordered 36 Rafales from us in September 2016 and we began delivery 3 years later at the end of 2019 at a rate of 1 per month, which will be accelerated in 2021 after the COVID crisis. I don't think anyone has complained.

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Picdelamirand-oil said:
In 2015 Egypt ordered 24 Rafales from us and by 2018 it already had 23. In mid-December 2015, Qatar ordered 24 Rafales from us, which came into force at the beginning of 2016 and in 2019, i.e. 3 years later, we delivered 19. India ordered 36 Rafales from us in September 2016 and we began delivery 3 years later at the end of 2019 at a rate of 1 per month, which will be accelerated in 2021 after the COVID crisis. I don't think anyone has complained.

prod-rafale.jpg
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Your chart supports my point. It took three years to reach 12 per year from the initial order. The client delivery went smoothly because the French Air Force sacrificed their delivery schedule. Every manufacturer will take time to speed up production. We will have to give HAL the same.
 
Ashwin said:
Your chart supports my point. It took three years to reach 12 per year from the initial order. The client delivery went smoothly because the French Air Force sacrificed their delivery schedule. Every manufacturer will take time to speed up production. We will have to give HAL the same.
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For France, it wasn't a sacrifice. Already during the previous LPM, we wanted to reduce Rafale purchases so that we could buy other types of weapon, but there was an agreement between Dassault and the DGA to ensure that the rate of production didn't fall too low, so in 2014 and 2015 we bought 17 Rafales over and above our immediate requirements. The increase in production rate may be brutal, but it can be seen on delivery 3 years later. However, at that time there was only Egypt as a customer, not even France, so we accelerated a little after Qatar came on board.
 
Sathya said:
If Tejas mk1A is satisfactory, Mirage won't be extended beyond 2035. We would have built 40 upg + 83 + 97 Tejas by then.

If anything I would buy flying squads now as interim to retire our older jets.
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Agree, Check the life of the aircraft; if the aircraft is still in good condition for another ten years, just upgrade it to carry Astra and Rudram series missiles.
 
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TARGET said:
Agree, Check the life of the aircraft; if the aircraft is still in good condition for another ten years, just upgrade it to carry Astra and Rudram series missiles.
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We are fiddling with FCS of mirages, don't know to what extent, if we develop spares pool and local make of spares.. Then it ll make sense to buyout entire mirage fleet of them.

But news related to investment in mirage spares make and R&D isn't much in public knowledge.. I doubt it exist..

It ll be huge if we could install tejas FCS into mirages.
 
Sathya said:
We are fiddling with FCS of mirages, don't know to what extent, if we develop spares pool and local make of spares.. Then it ll make sense to buyout entire mirage fleet of them.

But news related to investment in mirage spares make and R&D isn't much in public knowledge.. I doubt it exist..

It ll be huge if we could install tejas FCS into mirages.
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Agreed, GOI should go for barter trade like Brahmos and a few P15-class destroyers for Mirages.
 
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The takeover of aircraft from the Qatar Emir's Air Force [QEAF], for an amount of around 680 million euros, was announced in June 2023, following negotiations which also involved the French company Défense Conseil International [DCI], E-Sytems Solutions, based in the United Arab Emirates, and the Czech group Excalibur International, a subsidiary of the arms group Czechoslovak Group [CSG].
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However, despite the advantages it promised, this operation aroused criticism. For some, the amount of the bill – which also included maintenance in operational condition [MCO] – was too high for old aircraft.


@randomradio

12 mirages for 680 million euro, worth the money?
Without maintenance contract, how much can the price be reduced?
we can also buy Greece Mirages for spares for these..

All in all is it worth the effort?
 
Sathya said:
The takeover of aircraft from the Qatar Emir's Air Force [QEAF], for an amount of around 680 million euros, was announced in June 2023, following negotiations which also involved the French company Défense Conseil International [DCI], E-Sytems Solutions, based in the United Arab Emirates, and the Czech group Excalibur International, a subsidiary of the arms group Czechoslovak Group [CSG].
.
.
.

However, despite the advantages it promised, this operation aroused criticism. For some, the amount of the bill – which also included maintenance in operational condition [MCO] – was too high for old aircraft.


@randomradio

12 mirages for 680 million euro, worth the money?
Without maintenance contract, how much can the price be reduced?
we can also buy Greece Mirages for spares for these..

All in all is it worth the effort?
Click to expand...
680 million for 12 aircraft is nearly double of what Qatar must have paid for the brand new aircraft.
 
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Sathya said:
The takeover of aircraft from the Qatar Emir's Air Force [QEAF], for an amount of around 680 million euros, was announced in June 2023, following negotiations which also involved the French company Défense Conseil International [DCI], E-Sytems Solutions, based in the United Arab Emirates, and the Czech group Excalibur International, a subsidiary of the arms group Czechoslovak Group [CSG].
.
.
.

However, despite the advantages it promised, this operation aroused criticism. For some, the amount of the bill – which also included maintenance in operational condition [MCO] – was too high for old aircraft.


@randomradio

12 mirages for 680 million euro, worth the money?
Without maintenance contract, how much can the price be reduced?
we can also buy Greece Mirages for spares for these..

All in all is it worth the effort?
Click to expand...

If that's the unit cost, then it's overpriced for 15 years of life left. Financially, it's better to wait for Mk2 instead. Operationally, it's definitely necessary, we can bring up our existing formations to full strength. Of course, if that price includes infrastructure, then it's a good deal if we just aim to get the jets alone, so there's room for negotiations.

The Greek ones are gonna have to come really cheap to make sense for use as a spares bin, although I don't think we need them like that anymore. What we got from France is enough. If we go for Greek jets, then they will need life extension and avionics upgrades for operational use.
 
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Indonesia Terminates Contract For Ex-Qatar Mirage 2000s​


SINGAPORE—The Indonesian Defense Ministry has chosen to walk away from its contract to acquire 12 ex-Qatar Mirage 2000-5.
Termination follows the ministry saying in January that the procurement had been postponed.

“The plan to purchase the Mirage 2000-5 has not yet been realized due to limited financial resources,” Muhammad Herindra, Indonesia's deputy defense minister, told local media outlets.

Jakarta's Mirage package—which included 14 engines, spare parts, three years of support, and pilot and technician training—was signed in June 2023 and carried a $734.5 million price tag.

On postponing the purchase in January, Indonesian officials said the country's priority was to upgrade and retrofit its existing fleet of Lockheed Martin F-16s and Sukhoi Su-27/30s, without providing specific details or a timeline.

High-profile local lawyer Hotman Paris Hutapea, who has been called in to represent the ministry, has pushed back against allegations made online that defense officials were involved in corruption relating to the contract. "Not a single penny" of state funds was paid out, the lawyer has said.

Meanwhile, Indonesia paid and signed off on the third and final batch of its planned acquisition of 42 Dassault Rafale fighters. The deal is estimated to be worth around $8.1 billion, the French Defense Ministry disclosed in 2022.

Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto is currently running for the presidential seat. The election takes place on Feb. 14, and Subianto is leading the race in opinion polls. It is unclear how his defense modernization priorities will evolve should he become president.
 
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