Mirage 2000H, MiG-29UPG, Jaguar DARIN III - Medium Multirole Aircraft of IAF

randomradio

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Maybe that was the plan. Put enough a show and bait our air force to over extend leading to a su getting shot down. Ground targets were never their objectives. They wanted a visual propaganda victory. So their actual target was shooting down an IAF aircraft. Most likely an mki but they got mig 21 instead. Then they used their info war capabilities to push propaganda. It was all propaganda victory. They won't need much security once cpec comes online..

So a lot of they capabilities they had accumulated over the last 20 years, they demonstrated, and now will spend billions replacing them, all for propaganda?

You do realise once something is showed off, the enemy makes countermeasures for it, right? Then that something becomes largely useless in the next war. So a lot of the capabilities they used on their AWACS, ECM aircraft, F-16's radar, EW suite, AIM-120's seeker, datalinks etc requires expensive modifications and/or replacements. All that for propaganda?

That's what they always wanted it was a media campaign to show themselves as the sane mature power and india as reactionary..

It's obvious it served the opposite purpose. They have domestic compulsions. When 300+ terrorists die in just one location, we have no clue about the other locations that were actually hit successfully too, then pressure comes from their cohorts to retaliate in kind. It gains significance when one realises this is the first time in history when the sovereign territory of one nuclear power was attacked by another.
 

randomradio

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@Picdelamirand-oil France has 24 mirage-2000 to sell at $1M each??? Previously, yourself & other French members are saying that France loves & needs her mirage-2000? Is this all real?

Personally, I think getting Mirage-2000 at $1M is very cheap.

France once operated over 300 M2000s, and now less than half are still operational. Many have been replaced with the Rafale. Since both India and France began operating the M2000s at the same time, and we are willing to upgrade and operate the oldest versions, so it's not difficult to guess a number of such jets are still in storage awaiting upgrades to make them flyable again.

Taiwan is so rich, why would they sell their good weapons?? that too when no country (other than USA) is selling them weapons??

They have a lot of financial arguments against using the M2000 over the F-16. As per Taiwan, parts are 2x more and fuel consumption is 1.5x more.


However, yeah, it doesn't make sense for them to sell the jets, considering the threats they are facing and the fact that upgrading is cheaper than replacing.
We had Jaguar production, so some frames were made flyable. With respect to Mirages, I am not sure how capable we are...
Do we have to import kits from France to upgrade? @randomradio

The second hand Jaguars are only for cannibalising parts. If we plan to fly some of the M2000s, then they will need upgrade kits from France.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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@Picdelamirand-oil France has 24 mirage-2000 to sell at $1M each??? Previously, yourself & other French members are saying that France loves & needs her mirage-2000? Is this all real?

Personally, I think getting Mirage-2000 at $1M is very cheap.
The Mirage 2000 C was recently withdrawn from service. But our planes are well maintained until they are retired, so they are still able to fly, but with little potential unless they are refurbished. These are probably the ones that are sold.
 

randomradio

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13 are flying fit but need somekind of sevicing and of the other eleven, we can make 3-4 fully fit using spares from the other aircraft as we did in the case of Jaguars. M2k sqns have 16 aircraft each. so we will get a total of four M2K sqns.

If they manage to get another squadron's worth, along with 2 more Rafale squadrons, we will have all 6 MMRCA squadrons that we wanted by 2025 or so.
 

randomradio

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The Mirage 2000 C was recently withdrawn from service. But our planes are well maintained until they are retired, so they are still able to fly, but with little potential unless they are refurbished. These are probably the ones that are sold.

There's no mention of the breakup of the 24 between Bs and Cs.

I suppose there are at least 90 more Cs left that the ADLA isn't using. But the overall French fleet has only 30 Bs.

With new F4.1s coming in, I suppose there could be room for an additional 24 jets.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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There's no mention of the breakup of the 24 between Bs and Cs.

I suppose there are at least 90 more Cs left that the ADLA isn't using. But the overall French fleet has only 30 Bs.

With new F4.1s coming in, I suppose there could be room for an additional 24 jets.
To replace 24 Mirage 2000 C we need 8 new Rafale, but we will have to replace also 12 Greeks Rafale and later 12 Croatians Rafale....so 32?
 
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STEPHEN COHEN

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650 Billion Dollars in Forex Reserves and we are
" Scrounging " for Scraps

Thank you Pakistan and China for your Enmity Otherwise IAF would only be flying "Gnats , Spitfires Canberras and Vampires "
 
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randomradio

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To replace 24 Mirage 2000 C we need 8 new Rafale, but we will have to replace also 12 Greeks Rafale and later 12 Croatians Rafale....so 32?

The ADLA has more than enough M2000s, they won't miss 24-30 more. Out of 300+ jets, they plan to operate only 100 jets. The remaining 200+ are in storage, out of which they gave up 24. I'm sure after F4 deliveries begin in 2023, more M2000s can be freed up. Even after transferring another 30 jets, ADLA will still have 150+ M2000s in storage, while having added 70+ new Rafales by the end of the decade.
 
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randomradio

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650 Billion Dollars in Forex Reserves and we are
" Scrounging " for Scraps

Thank you Pakistan and China for your Enmity Otherwise IAF would only be flying "Gnats , Spitfires Canberras and Vampires "

Time is of greater concern than money.

120 jets will be leaving soon before 2025 and we have only settled on 40 jets before that time. Money won't solve this problem.
 

jk007

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The ADLA has more than enough M2000s, they won't miss 24-30 more. Out of 300+ jets, they plan to operate only 100 jets. The remaining 200+ are in storage, out of which they gave up 24. I'm sure after F4 deliveries begin in 2023, more M2000s can be freed up. Even after transferring another 30 jets, ADLA will still have 150+ M2000s in storage, while having added 70+ new Rafales by the end of the decade.
Please educate me....what will India can / will do with M2000C? They can't be used in A2A. If they are used in A2G, they will need huge escorts.

Considering the kind of neighbours India have, why is India buying such jets?

I believe future wars will be short & intense. Will these jets be useful in such scenarios?

Time is of greater concern than money.

120 jets will be leaving soon before 2025 and we have only settled on 40 jets before that time. Money won't solve this problem.
Either much info is not in public domain (or) Modi govt not planning well - can't imagine as I am Modi fan (or) 120 jets not leaving by 2025.

I don't know why follow-on order for 36 / 54 more rafale not being given.

So a lot of they capabilities they had accumulated over the last 20 years, they demonstrated, and now will spend billions replacing them, all for propaganda?

You do realise once something is showed off, the enemy makes countermeasures for it, right? Then that something becomes largely useless in the next war. So a lot of the capabilities they used on their AWACS, ECM aircraft, F-16's radar, EW suite, AIM-120's seeker, datalinks etc requires expensive modifications and/or replacements. All that for propaganda?



It's obvious it served the opposite purpose. They have domestic compulsions. When 300+ terrorists die in just one location, we have no clue about the other locations that were actually hit successfully too, then pressure comes from their cohorts to retaliate in kind. It gains significance when one realises this is the first time in history when the sovereign territory of one nuclear power was attacked by another.
You must write blogs (for people like me) to understand what PAF gained / lost & what IAF gained & lost due to feb-27.

Also, If IAF shot down 1 or 2 PAF jets, then would they have prolonged it? Please note that Indian public may accept loosing jets, but pak public may be more dis-illusioned as they are fed lot of propaganda about their armed forces.
 
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STEPHEN COHEN

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Time is of greater concern than money.

120 jets will be leaving soon before 2025 and we have only settled on 40 jets before that time. Money won't solve this problem.

France has delivered 26 Rafales in
just over a Year

So why cannot we order 36 more of the F 3 Version , rather than wasting time for F 4 version
 
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STEPHEN COHEN

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Dec 4, 2017
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So a lot of they capabilities they had accumulated over the last 20 years, they demonstrated, and now will spend billions replacing them, all for propaganda?

You do realise once something is showed off, the enemy makes countermeasures for it, right? Then that something becomes largely useless in the next war. So a lot of the capabilities they used on their AWACS, ECM aircraft, F-16's radar, EW suite, AIM-120's seeker, datalinks etc requires expensive modifications and/or replacements. All that for propaganda?



It's obvious it served the opposite purpose. They have domestic compulsions. When 300+ terrorists die in just one location, we have no clue about the other locations that were actually hit successfully too, then pressure comes from their cohorts to retaliate in kind. It gains significance when one realises this is the first time in history when the sovereign territory of one nuclear power was attacked by another.

The one and only surprise of Feb 27 was that IAF did NOT have the "foresight " to
Anticipate that PAF will fire Aim 120 C 5
From well inside their own territory

Just because we bombed their territory , so they assumed that their Retaliation will be only in the form of SOW s

The other things like SDRs , AWACS , Communication Jamming , BAR CAPs are all SOPs

Anyway we must be thankful to PAF , otherwise we would still be living in a make believe world that R 77 Is good enough

On the positive side the enemy realized that IAF is not going to shy away from Dog Fighting and that our MIG 21 can also bring down their F 16
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Please educate me....what will India can / will do with M2000C? They can't be used in A2A. If they are used in A2G, they will need huge escorts.

Considering the kind of neighbours India have, why is India buying such jets?

I believe future wars will be short & intense. Will these jets be useful in such scenarios?

The M2000 with the current upgrade makes it an extremely advanced aircraft. It's actually the most useful jet for short wars.

It carries hardware specific to some missions that other aircraft cannot carry out properly.

Either much info is not in public domain (or) Modi govt not planning well - can't imagine as I am Modi fan (or) 120 jets not leaving by 2025.

I don't know why follow-on order for 36 / 54 more rafale not being given.

120 Mig-21s are leaving by 2024-25. They are already well past their shelf lives. Rafale won't help. We need a single engine jet like the LCA, Gripen, F-16 or M2000. LCAs will take time, post 2025. Gripen/F-16 are not going to happen. Second-hand M2000 are the fastest. Those 13 new jets alone can cover an entire sector all on their own, like the LoC.

We will be in a very uncomfortable position between the end of 2023 and the end of 2027. That's how long it will take us to get 3 new squadrons of LCA. So every new squadron of M2000 buys us an extra year.

You must write blogs (for people like me) to understand what PAF gained / lost & what IAF gained & lost due to feb-27.

Also, If IAF shot down 1 or 2 PAF jets, then would they have prolonged it? Please note that Indian public may accept loosing jets, but pak public may be more dis-illusioned as they are fed lot of propaganda about their armed forces.

The IAF achieved their goal of attacking terrorists, quite successfully. PAF failed to retaliate successfully.

Can't speculate on what Pak would have done. But as per Indian chiefs, had Abhinandan not been caught, we would have followed up with a Brahmos attack on Pak naval installations, post which we would have seen the army initiate a short border war all along the IB. That man ruined it for us. But his saving grace was he brought down an F-16, which has been witnessed by many, including a lot of circumstantial evidence unwittingly given away by both the ISPR and the general public in the viscinity of the action. There's a lot of material on this subject already in the Balakot thread.

In terms of material loss, they blundered Op Swift Retort magnificently, and then lost 2 highly qualified pilots and their second best jet. Not to mention the loss of their EM capabilities and tactics. It's difficult to quantify their true loss since the loss of face amongst the terrorist leadership was immense.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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France has delivered 26 Rafales in
just over a Year

So why cannot we order 36 more of the F 3 Version , rather than wasting time for F 4 version

It wasn't over a year. Delivery actually began in Sept 2019, and will finish only in Jan 2022.

The one and only surprise of Feb 27 was that IAF did NOT have the "foresight " to
Anticipate that PAF will fire Aim 120 C 5
From well inside their own territory

PAF didn't achieve surprise. I don't know why people keep saying this. Only civilians were surprised, but they are surprised by everything. Air force personnel were more like, "How stupid!"

But the PAF did surprise the IAF by vacating the air space.

Just because we bombed their territory , so they assumed that their Retaliation will be only in the form of SOW s

The other things like SDRs , AWACS , Communication Jamming , BAR CAPs are all SOPs

Anyway we must be thankful to PAF , otherwise we would still be living in a make believe world that R 77 Is good enough

On the positive side the enemy realized that IAF is not going to shy away from Dog Fighting and that our MIG 21 can also bring down their F 16

It woke up the govt. The IAF knew what they were doing.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
7,506
4,614
The M2000 with the current upgrade makes it an extremely advanced aircraft. It's actually the most useful jet for short wars.

It carries hardware specific to some missions that other aircraft cannot carry out properly.



120 Mig-21s are leaving by 2024-25. They are already well past their shelf lives. Rafale won't help. We need a single engine jet like the LCA, Gripen, F-16 or M2000. LCAs will take time, post 2025. Gripen/F-16 are not going to happen. Second-hand M2000 are the fastest. Those 13 new jets alone can cover an entire sector all on their own, like the LoC.

We will be in a very uncomfortable position between the end of 2023 and the end of 2027. That's how long it will take us to get 3 new squadrons of LCA. So every new squadron of M2000 buys us an extra year.



The IAF achieved their goal of attacking terrorists, quite successfully. PAF failed to retaliate successfully.

Can't speculate on what Pak would have done. But as per Indian chiefs, had Abhinandan not been caught, we would have followed up with a Brahmos attack on Pak naval installations, post which we would have seen the army initiate a short border war all along the IB. That man ruined it for us. But his saving grace was he brought down an F-16, which has been witnessed by many, including a lot of circumstantial evidence unwittingly given away by both the ISPR and the general public in the viscinity of the action. There's a lot of material on this subject already in the Balakot thread.

In terms of material loss, they blundered Op Swift Retort magnificently, and then lost 2 highly qualified pilots and their second best jet. Not to mention the loss of their EM capabilities and tactics. It's difficult to quantify their true loss since the loss of face amongst the terrorist leadership was immense.

They lost One pilot who was killed by their own people because of that Orange Parachute

And what does Second Best Jet mean

Was it a Second hand F 16