Mirage 2000H, MiG-29UPG, Jaguar DARIN III - Medium Multirole Aircraft of IAF

TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
578
466
Without proper refurbishment, they will hardly have 250-300 hours in them. That's 2, may be 3 years tops.
If we get the Mirages with 200 to 300 flight hours left in them it will be better to use them as spare parts, Spending money on trash always be trash.
 

TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
578
466
Refurbished Mirage 2000 will give better availability rates than Mig29 or even Su30
Agree, Western products have good safety records compared to Russian products with after-service life upgrades but we should refrain from creating another Mig 21 saga. Don't feed the babus for spare parts and maintenance ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sathya

Sathya

Senior member
Dec 2, 2017
2,322
1,311
India
Agree, Western products have good safety records compared to Russian products with after-service life upgrades but we should refrain from creating another Mig 21 saga. Don't feed the babus for spare parts and maintenance ...

Yeah without aesa radar s and don't know what standard of radar is already existing..
Spending like 50 million per craft to upgrade is too costly.

Better to buy Lca mk1A with aesa and other sensors.

We have capacity to upgrade Mirage 2000..
Hopefully we do a DARIN 3+ on mirage instead of going expensive upgrade s.

Only 13 are in complete condition. I think atleast 10 will be refurbished.

And atleast a oldest squadron oh mig 21/ Jaguar can be retired...
 
  • Agree
Reactions: TARGET

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
12,070
9,208
India
If we get the Mirages with 200 to 300 flight hours left in them it will be better to use them as spare parts, Spending money on trash always be trash.

The upgraded M2000s are currently our second best jets in the fleet, behind the Rafale. So it's not trash.

Just those 13 flying M2000s are equal to an entire squadron of F-16 B52s.

Since we seem to be open to flying 2nd hand jets, I'd actually like to see us getting our hands on the 54 Taiwanese M2000s as well.
 

TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
578
466
The upgraded M2000s are currently our second best jets in the fleet, behind the Rafale. So it's not trash.

Just those 13 flying M2000s are equal to an entire squadron of F-16 B52s.

Since we seem to be open to flying 2nd hand jets, I'd actually like to see us getting our hands on the 54 Taiwanese M2000s as well.
I was talking about the new mirages which are having 200 to 300 hrs of flight hours that max of 1 to 2 years of service. So if we are going to spend a good amount of money on upgrades, we will have fund issues for our bigger projects (AMCA)... it's better to invest in indigenous development, we have to move ahead with the next-generation aircraft.

The deal is good, we should use all the mirages to max which are in good shape with the minimal fix, and stop doing the upgrade work.
 
Last edited:

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
12,070
9,208
India
I was talking about the new mirages which are having 200 to 300 hrs of flight hours that max of 1 to 2 years of service. So if we are going to spend a good amount of money on upgrades, we will have fund issues for our bigger projects (AMCA)... it's better to invest in indigenous development, we have to move ahead with the next-generation aircraft.

The deal is good, we should use all the mirages to max which are in good shape with the minimal fix, and stop doing the upgrade work.

200-300 hours is incorrect. The normal airframe life of the aircraft is 6000 hours, and the Taiwanese haven't even used most of it. Their aircraft entered service in 1997 in its modernised 2000-5 form, 15 years after ours did, and still have plenty of life left even without needing to upgrade, at least 2000 hours on the oldest jets. Our jets are being upgraded to 11500 hours to last until 2042, so the Taiwanese jets can last until the late 2050s if we upgrade it before 2030. Out of a potential 11500 hours life, they have at best used less than 4000 hours, likely closer to 3000 hours due to the expenses incurred in maintaining them.

You can't compare it to the Mig-21 because it orignally had a service life of just 2500 hours and was extended by 1000-1500 hours.

As for indigenous projects, yeah, it's a good idea to throw money at our own stuff, but we need fighter jets in large numbers, and quickly. The Taiwanese plan to replace their M2000s with new F-16Vs between 2023 and 2026. So that's how quickly we can get the M2000s. Any indigneous project will begin delivery in significant numbers only after 2025, closer to 2026.
 

Hydra

Well-Known member
May 19, 2020
1,949
938
Mumbai
Pitty, an economic power in asia is purchasing second hand used aircraft from abroad. Whrn Pakistan is purchasing blk 3,when Chinese are going likr a maniac with its stealth aircraft, india is buying second hand aircraft.

Hope our ministry will not insist to import used uniforms from abroad as a part of cost cutting by getting inspired from some african countries.
 

Sathya

Senior member
Dec 2, 2017
2,322
1,311
India
200-300 hours is incorrect. The normal airframe life of the aircraft is 6000 hours, and the Taiwanese haven't even used most of it. Their aircraft entered service in 1997 in its modernised 2000-5 form, 15 years after ours did, and still have plenty of life left even without needing to upgrade, at least 2000 hours on the oldest jets. Our jets are being upgraded to 11500 hours to last until 2042, so the Taiwanese jets can last until the late 2050s if we upgrade it before 2030. Out of a potential 11500 hours life, they have at best used less than 4000 hours, likely closer to 3000 hours due to the expenses incurred in maintaining them.

You can't compare it to the Mig-21 because it orignally had a service life of just 2500 hours and was extended by 1000-1500 hours.

As for indigenous projects, yeah, it's a good idea to throw money at our own stuff, but we need fighter jets in large numbers, and quickly. The Taiwanese plan to replace their M2000s with new F-16Vs between 2023 and 2026. So that's how quickly we can get the M2000s. Any indigneous project will begin delivery in significant numbers only after 2025, closer to 2026.

Any idea from where we are getting those 24 mirages?

I think from France only. Just like Jaguars bought for spares.

We even refurbished some Jaguars to fly.

I don't think much life will be left when are buying it for spares.

Edit :

The aircraft is becoming obsolete in France, they added, and IAF chief Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhaduaria decided to go in for the purchase
 
Last edited:

Sathya

Senior member
Dec 2, 2017
2,322
1,311
India
Pitty, an economic power in asia is purchasing second hand used aircraft from abroad. Whrn Pakistan is purchasing blk 3,when Chinese are going likr a maniac with its stealth aircraft, india is buying second hand aircraft.

Hope our ministry will not insist to import used uniforms from abroad as a part of cost cutting by getting inspired from some african countries.

Mostly for spares to maintain our fleet for another decade. Who ll hand over flying mirages at such throw away prices. - 27 million euros

From the article

the people said – with the trigger for the acquisition of the second-hand aircraft being the immediate need for 300 critical spares.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Chain Smoker

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
12,070
9,208
India
Pitty, an economic power in asia is purchasing second hand used aircraft from abroad. Whrn Pakistan is purchasing blk 3,when Chinese are going likr a maniac with its stealth aircraft, india is buying second hand aircraft.

Hope our ministry will not insist to import used uniforms from abroad as a part of cost cutting by getting inspired from some african countries.

Second hand comes with the fastest induction time.
Any idea from where we are getting those 24 mirages?

I think from France only. Just like Jaguars bought for spares.

We even refurbished some Jaguars to fly.

I don't think much life will be left when are buying it for spares.

From France. The article says that 13 are completed aircraft, the rest are partially completed. And 8 of those 13 only need servicing before they can fly.
 

Sathya

Senior member
Dec 2, 2017
2,322
1,311
India
Second hand comes with the fastest induction time.


From France. The article says that 13 are completed aircraft, the rest are partially completed. And 8 of those 13 only need servicing before they can fly.

I don't think we ll upgrade at all..

We might use it for training and practice etc..

And keep our Mirage 2005 for real sorties.

------

All in all, it's nice to have more available platforms for Strike mission.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
12,070
9,208
India
I don't think we ll upgrade at all..

We might use it for training and practice etc..

And keep our Mirage 2005 for real sorties.

------

All in all, it's nice to have more available platforms for Strike mission.

Gotta see. They wouldn't bother to tell 13 can fly for no reason after all. I'm not a big fan of getting second hand stuff for operational use, but right now our situation isn't comfortable. The SAMs and the planned rocket force can only do so much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sathya

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
1,211
833
Delhi
Great decision. Wouldn't mind getting more hands on second hand M2000's. They can handle most of pakistani fleet and the 4th gen Chinese fleet. We just need to get hands on mig 29 and upgrade it to smt and upg standard and raise more squadrons..Both these AC's are superior to most of the Pakistani fleet and the Half of the Chinese fleet..
 

TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
578
466
Pitty, an economic power in asia is purchasing second hand used aircraft from abroad. Whrn Pakistan is purchasing blk 3,when Chinese are going likr a maniac with its stealth aircraft, india is buying second hand aircraft.

Hope our ministry will not insist to import used uniforms from abroad as a part of cost cutting by getting inspired from some african countries.
I will pick Mirage 2000 any day over junk 17 ...Even Pakistan will pick f16 over their junk17-III, we are getting a good deal so we are fine ...we have to be careful on spending extra money on the sound system and other accessories :ROFLMAO:
 

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
1,211
833
Delhi
Gotta see. They wouldn't bother to tell 13 can fly for no reason after all. I'm not a big fan of getting second hand stuff for operational use, but right now our situation isn't comfortable. The SAMs and the planned rocket force can only do so much.
Honestly we should do a G2G deal seperate from the MMRCA for the Mig 35's. And I know it's stupid but we have atleast 100 mig 29 across the IAF and IN. They need to be AESA equipped. And we can use them as a test bed for further tech until the tejas mk 2 comes online. Though by the time this deal fruitions the mk 2 will come online
 

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
1,211
833
Delhi
I will pick Mirage 2000 any day over junk 17 ...Even Pakistan will pick f16 over their junk17-III, we are getting a good deal so we are fine ...we have to be careful on spending extra money on the sound system and other accessories :ROFLMAO:
I don't know jf 17 could threaten our mirages. From the interviews on HI Sutton and even DCS gameplays.
The Pakistanis seem quite confident on taking on our Mirages


Though our mirages also use the r73 but still the jf 17 seems to win in a turn fight against our mirage. Which also brings in to question how will Tejas fair against the jf-17..