Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

I am not against US fighters in IAF or IN. But this autonomy thing is a huge contentious issue for us.

NGAD and B-21 for us, I'm all game. F-35, no problem. Just remove the kill switch and allow us to use it as we want and don't mind it too.

But realistically, the above scenario doesn't look probable or possible. So only reaslitic 5th gen we can procure this decade to counter J-20 is Su-57M. Period.
The Americans ain't removing any kill switches. Buy 36-48 f-35I's with meteor in the interim and focus on amca. Reality is with tejas the Americans have lot of arm twisting abilities because we use the americunt engine.
 
The Americans ain't removing any kill switches. Buy 36-48 f-35I's with meteor in the interim and focus on amca. Reality is with tejas the Americans have lot of arm twisting abilities because we use the americunt engine.
That's why it's extremely important to set up logistics base for repair/overhaul/support of GE F404 engines in India itself. We should have gone with the French engines for Tejas, IMO. Depending upon America for any critical tech is extremely dangerous.
 
That's why it's extremely important to set up logistics base for repair/overhaul/support of GE F404 engines in India itself. We should have gone with the French engines for Tejas, IMO. Depending upon America for any critical tech is extremely dangerous.
The latest buzz on Twitter is India'd go in for 4 squadrons of F-35 , additional 2 of Rafales & let the MRFA tender proceed on it's meandering course .

For a country so wary about US's intentions not at all without any foundation , it's baffling why did they go in for the US engines. It's basically a throwback to the IG & RG era where they met Reagan with a request to train Indian personnel from ADA / DRDO & a commitment to supply US made engines , a request duly accepted & honoured .

Why did we proceed with it subsequently in spite of the sanctions the US imposed on us post the Pokhran -2 tests are a mystery ! Arguably by then we had already designed & started trials on the FA with the engine but couldn't we have changed course then ? For once it flew & was accepted followed by certification it's really difficult to go back to the drawing board to re design a FA with a new engine & then spend time validating the design. The subsequent iterations following the same design , the US engines became an intrinsic part of our programs . Now they're here to stay.
 
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The latest buzz on Twitter is India'd go in for 4 squadrons of F-35 , additional 2 of Rafales & let the MRFA tender proceed on it's meandering course .

For a country so wary about US's intentions not at all without any foundation , it's baffling why did they go in for the US engines. It's basically a throwback to the IG & RG era where they met Reagan with a request to train Indian personnel from ADA / DRDO & a commitment to supply US made engines , a request duly accepted & honoured .

Why did we proceed with it subsequently in spite of the sanctions the US imposed on us post the Pokhran -2 tests are a mystery ! Arguably by then we had already designed & started trials on the FA with the engine but couldn't we have changed course then ? For once it flew & was accepted followed by certification it's really difficult to go back to the drawing board to re design a FA with a new engine & then spend time validating the design. The subsequent iterations following the same design , the US engines became an intrinsic part of our programs . Now they're here to stay.
No one makes jet engines like US. They are head and shoulders above everyone else. Only problem is their unpredictable nature. Tejas programme suffered delays because of US bans post Pokhran. Tech wise they are indeed the best. No one can doubt them.

F-35? IAF won't accept it. Also will US allow F-35 to be integrated with S-400? Hell no. More Rafales and in future Su-57M is the answer until MK2 and AMCA become ready and mature. After that no need to import any foreign fighter.
 
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No one makes jet engines like US. They are head and shoulders above everyone else. Only problem is their unpredictable nature. Tejas programme suffered delays because of US bans post Pokhran. Tech wise they are indeed the best. No one can doubt them.


F-35? IAF won't accept it. Also will US allow F-35 to be integrated with S-400? Hell no. More Rafales and in future Su-57M is the answer until MK2 and AMCA become ready and mature. After that no need to import any foreign fighter.

The US was sending feelers with their participation in the AI-2023 with the Lightnings . A compromise & via media can be worked out according to that discussion. The key to everything is the IAF getting it's head out of it's a r s e & thinking about how to handle contingencies in a rapidly evolving situation.

If we continue the way we are we'd be back to the stage where we're shopping for a 6th Generation while developing one in house sans any collaboration.
 
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That's why it's extremely important to set up logistics base for repair/overhaul/support of GE F404 engines in India itself. We should have gone with the French engines for Tejas, IMO. Depending upon America for any critical tech is extremely dangerous.
Should have gone with ej200 90kN output with a growth potential uptill 110 kN already tested. No arm twisting since too many players involved.
 
No one makes jet engines like US. They are head and shoulders above everyone else. Only problem is their unpredictable nature. Tejas programme suffered delays because of US bans post Pokhran. Tech wise they are indeed the best. No one can doubt them.

F-35? IAF won't accept it. Also will US allow F-35 to be integrated with S-400? Hell no. More Rafales and in future Su-57M is the answer until MK2 and AMCA become ready and mature. After that no need to import any foreign fighter.
The Russians can barely produce su-57 for their own. On top of that after CAATSA any major russian hardware is out of question.
F-35 is the only realistic path. Su-57 is inferior to the j-20. By the time we procure su-57M's the j-20 would be ready with its 180kN engine and would have GaN. We need breathing space. But the reality is IAF ain't touching f-35 untill the BLk 4 goes online along with AETP engine.
 
The Russians can barely produce su-57 for their own. On top of that after CAATSA any major russian hardware is out of question.
F-35 is the only realistic path. Su-57 is inferior to the j-20. By the time we procure su-57M's the j-20 would be ready with its 180kN engine and would have GaN. We need breathing space. But the reality is IAF ain't touching f-35 untill the BLk 4 goes online along with AETP engine.
The Russians are waiting for Type-30 to mature. Su-57 is superior to any jet flying today. Don't go by western propaganda. Kinematically none are a match to it and RCS wise it's good enough to nullify any BVR advantage. Americans know this, that's why they are developing NGAD to counter future Su-57 advance derivatives.
 
The Russians are waiting for Type-30 to mature. Su-57 is superior to any jet flying today. Don't go by western propaganda. Kinematically none are a match to it and RCS wise it's good enough to nullify any BVR advantage. Americans know this, that's why they are developing NGAD to counter future Su-57 advance derivatives.
NGAD is for China, not Russia.
 
For both.

Not really. Russian Air Force isn't really a threat.

SAMs yes. Planes, no. At Ukraine war peak, S-300, Buk and MANPADS were able to defeat Russian air force and keep air contested.

F-35 is tailor designed for defeating SAM sites so why would NGAD be for Europe? Range expansion isn't for Europe, where plenty of airbases exist unlike the Pacific.

A2A focus would be wasted on Russia. They have what? 75 SU-57s by 2027? Not great.
 
The Russians are waiting for Type-30 to mature. Su-57 is superior to any jet flying today. Don't go by western propaganda. Kinematically none are a match to it and RCS wise it's good enough to nullify any BVR advantage. Americans know this, that's why they are developing NGAD to counter future Su-57 advance derivatives.
Bro their AESA tech is inferior to western AESA might be also inferior to us. The su-57 has huge faults in design and will have a 0.1sqm rcs. It's only superior to rafales and super hornets. But I feel it will have a hard time against j-20's and would be easily taken out by f-35's. The K-77m is vapourware.

Their qwip irst is a generation behind our current rafales. That's how much difference is their. The qwip irst on rafales is second generation according to the French. And the frenchies pretty much have the most efficient tech out of all western countries.
 
Not really. Russian Air Force isn't really a threat.

SAMs yes. Planes, no. At Ukraine war peak, S-300, Buk and MANPADS were able to defeat Russian air force and keep air contested.

F-35 is tailor designed for defeating SAM sites so why would NGAD be for Europe? Range expansion isn't for Europe, where plenty of airbases exist unlike the Pacific.

A2A focus would be wasted on Russia. They have what? 75 SU-57s by 2027? Not great.
You are underestimating RuAF which thankfully USAF isn't. They fully know the threat presented by advance derivatives of Su-57 and future Chinese 6th gen J-XX fighter.
Bro their AESA tech is inferior to western AESA might be also inferior to us.

True. But they are rapidly working on ROFAR for Su-57M. If successful it should allow them to leap-frog everyone.
The su-57 has huge faults in design and will have a 0.1sqm rcs. It's only superior to rafales and super hornets. But I feel it will have a hard time against j-20's and would be easily taken out by f-35's. The K-77m is vapourware.
Su-57 is full-on VLO from front on. It's even stealthier than F-22/F-35/J-20 from front. That's what matter in head to head BVR combat.

From all aspect, F-22 and F-35 are ahead. J-20 would be quite close. This 0.1m2 figure is again western propaganda. Sukhoi chief said that F-22 has also 0.3m2 RCS. Did anyone believe him then?

Rafale/SH/Typhoon/Gripen are all good planes but are RO(reduced observable) when clean. But load them with 6 missiles and a drop tank and their RCS increases to 1-1.5m2. They would get detected far away by modern radars. In comparison Su-57 is VLO front-on and LO all aspect.
Their qwip irst is a generation behind our current rafales.

The earlier IRST of Su-30MKI and Su-35S were superior to all except PIRATE. Su-57's OLS-50 would be as good as it gets. It also uses QWIP AFAIK.
That's how much difference is their. The qwip irst on rafales is second generation according to the French. And the frenchies pretty much have the most efficient tech out of all western countries.
Second gen IRST, but first gen QWIP(and our Rafales have got this first).
 
You are underestimating RuAF which thankfully USAF isn't. They fully know the threat presented by advance derivatives of Su-57 and future Chinese 6th gen J-XX fighter.
China yes, Russia no.

That's just facts. Russia has performed worse than even the most negative person on this forum could predict in Ukraine.

Russia is a threat due to nukes and information warfare.

Conventionally, really? The SU-57.

Let's read the most recent tank production thread.
How could a country be putting out the T-55 and you think is a threat to the USAF. Like c'mon. China WS-15 full production. Big threat conventionally in the air, Russia? No way.
 
China yes, Russia no.

That's just facts. Russia has performed worse than even the most negative person on this forum could predict in Ukraine.

Russia is a threat due to nukes and information warfare.

Conventionally, really? The SU-57.

Let's read the most recent tank production thread.
How could a country be putting out the T-55 and you think is a threat to the USAF. Like c'mon. China WS-15 full production. Big threat conventionally in the air, Russia? No way.