Let us think the unthinkable. If India decides to go for a decisive war with Pakistan, what an be realistic outcomes.
- Thread starter Saaho
- Start date
. Where is humanity heading 
@safriz
Pakistan wants Everything for FREE
That also includes KASHMIR
What price can you pay for Kashmir
Pakistan...and pay!!! Now that's unthinkable for sure
This scenario is "unthinkable" because I'm not sure what would cause Indian leadership to engage in nuclear war with Pakistan. India actually has a future. By siting back and growing the economy, India can dwarf the Pakistani economy several times over and, with sheer industrial/economic might, render Pakistan's efforts at destabilization moot. Engaging in nuclear war throws all that potential down the drain.
Engagement with Pakistan should be left to limited strikes on specific targets, economic/diplomatic pressure, and various intelligence lead activities.
Engagement with Pakistan should be left to limited strikes on specific targets, economic/diplomatic pressure, and various intelligence lead activities.
The "oh so pawaful" India has only 1.25 times bigger air force than Pakistan.
And while Pakistan can keep an AWACS up in the air 24/7. India cannot because India has too few of them for very large area
And while Pakistan can keep an AWACS up in the air 24/7. India cannot because India has too few of them for very large area
The problem with nuclear exchange in SA is the proximity of targets to respective countries.
In India's case the problem is more , por..... has the luxury of targets much inside india. As long as Hindus die jihadis won't care a fig.
And one would be advised to note the weather pattern especially wind flow etc throughout the year
So how would india solve(ed) the problem ?
In India's case the problem is more , por..... has the luxury of targets much inside india. As long as Hindus die jihadis won't care a fig.
And one would be advised to note the weather pattern especially wind flow etc throughout the year
So how would india solve(ed) the problem ?
I feel the Nature of CAS in the context of India-Pakistan has changed significantly.
More than advancing armor needing air cover, it is more of Armor advancing to positions pummelled by Air interdiction, and we saw a bit of that during the desert storm where US air interdictions went in phases, EW systems and Radar installation were taken out first, then the Sam Systems employing F117's and in some cases even rotary platforms to avoid detection, once the ops commences, EW platforms led large fleets of F15/F16/F4's to dismantle C&C and AD assets, once Air Superiority was achieved, that's when A10 and rotary platform along with f16 came in to aid Ground advancements, until then the focus was completely on SEAD/Air interdiction. Even the Tomahawk barrages were mostly against stature targets like factories, palaces, offices, etc (Although In India's case Brahmos/Shaurya combine I believe will play a critical role in early phases)
In India's case, Ground operations would be more of armor occupying the areas scorched by Air interdiction and taking out stragglers rather than full-blown armor duels that would need Dedicated CAS. I feel smaller quantities of LCA, and dedicated LCH/Dhruv WSO units will do the bulk of CAS heavy lifting.
That is why we need more Rocket Artillery
Missiles like Prahar , Shaurya , Brahmos are all expensive
Sending in Helicopters will expose them to AAA and Manpads
Rocket artillery can destroy not only SAMs but also The Enemy Ground Troops
And completely dislocate and disrupt the enemy formations
IBGs are not going to go deeper than 30 KM
Rocket Artillery will destroy the rear areas
Before the Contact battles begin
Arre kanjus baniyaa, War mein bhi chillar ginn raha hai.
Smerch's are a nightmare to service, and its Missile is not as cheap as you think. Pinaka is a far better system, and more importantly domestic system.
Prahaar is a multi-tube SRBM, Shaurya is an intermediate quasi ballistic canisterized missile and Brahmos as hypersonic CM, You cannot compare their price and effect with tube arty.
Rocket Arty doesn't go in at the outset of hostilities, it will work exactly like any other arty, clearing tool to aid Ground movement.
You might already know this but, Helicopters are very effective to take advantage of terrain against Forwarding radars, during Desert Storm the first Blows were dealt on Radar Installation not by F117 or B2's but by AH64's and MH 53 Pavelows. Also, the flexibility the rotary assets bring during CAS is mind-boggling.
I think and it is just my thinking that War will happen in the following manner
Please correct me if I am wrong
Suppose we want to open up only the Jammu Sector
1 First we use Tube artillery to drive away all their Forward Observation posts and bunkers
2 Then Long range range Rockets will be used for targetting the enemy formations because Pak Army formations ( in their assembly areas ) are located at a maximum distance Of 50 KM from the border
3 Air strikes using long range stand off munitions and Missile strikes for the SAM.sites and other static important targets
4 Only when the enemy is softened up
will our Armour and infantry move in to
occupy territory
We have to factor in enemy retaliation firing and air strikes also
Opening up one sector is a waste of time.
Akin to eating your food only using your pinky finger. If a war has to be fought, the intent must be:
Denuclearize Pakistan as a state.
Exact unilateral Surrender of Pakistan Military
Complete control over the erstwhile state of J&K
Full Autonomy to successor states that wish to separate from Pakistani union.
Opening up a sector is absolutely foolish. India's might only comes in when India's entire military volume goes up against Pakistan. If you deploy 1 division in one sector against Pakistan, Pakistan will have parity. When you deploy 10 aircraft against PAF, they can deploy 10 Aircrafts or more against you. When you open up the entire Sky, and run 40 strike packages, that's when Pakistan falls shorts, or if you have 3 pivot division with 16 IBG's that's when Pakistan cannot cope.
Fight to your own strengths, not to your enemy's strength, this low-intensity conflict non-sense is peddled mostly by Paxtan or the so-called writers in India who are doing their bidding knowing/unknowingly. In any low-intensity conflict, Pakistan will easily be able to match India. So if we want to fight a war, we should fight a decisive war and not pussyfoot about it.
To me:
>The initial strike needs to be on the Command and control centers, i.e Divisional HQ's, Radar Sites, Air Strips, fuel depots, harbors, and ballistic missile sites. This should happen Via Ballistic Missiles, Shaurya, and Brahmos.
> Within minutes Air interdiction and Air superiority missions on the armor bases, forward sites, forward airstrips and power grid, communication grid, bridges, and railway infrastructure. And when I say within minutes, your first strike package should be taking off when your first decapitating missile salvo are in the air.
> Then starts naval and ground mobilization, Naval forces block off any re-supply efforts, sink every floating object and conduct the land attack. Ground mobilization starts via pivot corp preceded by forwarding Air Support.
> Tube and conventional artillery come into effect to soften the defensive position of ground forces, to aid the movement of pivot corp. Holding corp once having blunted any forward enemy movement will eventually see no more action and will be thinned out to resupply and reinforce pivot corp. Once Holding Corps proceed into Pakistan, by then Surrender should be in order by Rawalpindi.
> Once holding Corp moves forward to pivot corp position, Pivot corp then breaks into smaller brigades and drives into localized missions to avoid regrouping of forces, also evacuate civilians, establishing relief camps etc.
That to me would be the order.
Order similar to Desert Storm, but more precise, and more agile deployment followed by the release of enemy territory to the countries established post-war instead of nation-building and policing like in the case of US.
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But in the present state the war will meet its end between firing the initial strike and mobilizing pivot corps. Notice how soon international community reacted during 27th feb.
It depends on the intent. Although the strategic scenario is different, the attitude of Israelis is something to learn from.
If India prepares today, it will be in a position to execute its ideal play in a decade. The point is we should be able to execute this play at all times and continue to upgrade its forces to minimize the time to complete all of it's objective thereafter. Ideally, the conflict should not last longer than 71 war.
Army is asking for a 10-12 ton Tactical Battlefield Support Helicopter (TBSH) for a long time. Maybe IMRH will fill the requirement.
Sir ji , let us have practical and realistic aims
Please tell.us under What Circumstances
Can India mount an all out Invasion across
IB ie Punjab ,Rajasthan and Gujarat
And also involve the Navy and IAF in a full frontal assault
Right now we are building the Narrative of
Taking back POK
At the maximum , We can open Jammu front to grab some territory
We need a strong. "Casus Belli " for an all out assault like 26 / 11
If we make a strong push in Jammu and capture some territory, Pakistan will be forced to open up another front where they perceive us to be relatively vulnerable. this would probably be Rajasthan or near Kutch. that would give us the Causus Belli for an all out assault.