Kashmir : An Illusive Solution

[Falcon]

Buddy, The J&K assembly has a total of 111 seats while the elections are held only for 87 seats as the two are for nominated members and other 21 seats fall in POK. The majority population of POK is Shia. Muftis and Abdullahs are Sunni. Jammu and Doda are Hindu/Shia majority. Only Kashmir valley is sunni majority with largest number of seats which decides who will form govt in J&K.
You might have read the recent comments of Farooqh Abdullah when he said that POK belongs to Pakistan. Why did he say it? The reason is simple, Muftis and Abudullahs will go out of power for ever once POK is integrated as the Shia population will ensure a majority for regions of J&K other than Kashmir valley. These people will never accept re-integration of POK with India for the very reason of their survival.

So, why doesn't the Central Government realize this very basic point of the problem? What, in your opinion, stops the people and the government from being able to recognize this point and taking it into consideration while devising the strategy?

Further, what, in your opinion, has been the ramification of the much talked about policy of Pakistan to settle and encourage their service personnel on retirement to base near LoC and marry local women of PoK? How does that impede or facilitate an Indian policy to 'retake' PoK?

 

[nair]

Sir. What stops the Government of India from rescinding the citizenship of these people and declaring them foreign agents and taking action against them? I can list out the number of ways they can be 'educated' just using the legal means available to the State of India, yet somehow, we still see the same issue being lamented about?

You think declaring them foreign agents and taking actions as a solution, Do check the funeral possession of the terrorists...... Let us not ignore the fact that there are certain amount of support for insurgency or terrorism which ever way you want to look at it.... The moment our forces zero in on a target there is stone pelters all over..... It is not a solution mate.....

 

[Falcon]

Well it has to be done otherwise the situation will only get worse with the passage of time

Sir. One very important tenet of fighting a counter insurgency is time. It is said that the side which is most patient, has maximum time to continue on it's strategy, wins.

If you look at the present trends, the increased incidence of the terrorists striking servicemen and their families as happened recently and last year, indicates that the movement is metamorphizing into pure terror acts from what could earlier be called as a somewhat legitimate or illegitimate (depending on who you want to ask) armed struggle. Also, the failure of the Government of India to declare the action against the Kashmiri Pandits as a case of Genocide, was not only a miscalculation, but a mistake till date.

If I may, I would like to draw your attention to the Kosovo issue and the Serbian action in the FYR of Kosovo, which led to the intervention by US & NATO. As it can be seen from this example, the failure of Government of India to declare it as a genocide, prevented an action in commensurate with the crime. Till date, we have shirked from declaring the act as genocide and not brought to trial perpetrators, who are being given legitimacy as Separatists (JKLF leadershp). In the case of FRY, the action of Muslims in a predominant Muslim republic of Kosovo (Albanian ethinicity predominating) against the Serbs minority drew reprisals.

The only mistake that Slobodan Milosovic made, was in employing disproportionate force to the task at hand. Although he was justified in the same, he clearly did not have the political and diplomatic muscle to get away. And even the Russian intervention, which saved him from complete dismemberment of his nation on his watch, was of a weakened Russia already suffering an ongoing military defeat in Chechnya.

 

[Falcon]

Most of them are not injected with hatred.. They involve in stone pelting because they get easy money. Its like the political parties here giving money to people for attending their party rallies and functions. Once the cash flow is stopped (which will be hard btw) these incidents will reduce!!

Sir.

Is that also not an indicator of poor social indices? If you look at the population growth in the region as opposed to the rate of economic growth, you will find that there is a severe mismatch that creates a problem of redundancies, unemployment and rampant and large scale truancy. How do you think will India achieve any of it's aims when there is existence of all the conditions necessary for a strife, in the region? Without putting children in school, without a National Population Policy with legal enforcement to check the phenomenal population growth in the region and without creating an incentive to work, how do you expect to reverse the trend?

 

[Falcon]

A fair amount of the people participating are actually against their will and in the fear of being singled out in the community.

Sir, not true. India is primarily an unorganized sector dominated economy. When the wages are not assured and constant and the concept of daily wage is a norm, how will you expect the masses to earn if not through these activities? How will they feed their children and their families?

 

[Falcon]

It is true that there is money involved, but let us not forget their age... They are being brain washed at this age and chances are high that they will continue their fight thru out their life..... And we are talking about another 40 50 years of unrest........ Not good...

Sir. It is a cyclical trend. The present generation, starting about a decade back, is from that, which saw the highest level of anti-Hindu rhetoric and acts in the valley as also height of militancy in 90s. They have grown up in that shadow.

In the quest to re-establish the writ of Indian State, the Indian Army and security forces were brutal and they had to be. They killed more often than made an attempt to capture. Imagine the impact on the psyche of the young who have seen that level of violence.

A generation, as a result, got created that is bred on their hatred for India. It was a time where on an average, everyone in the valley had someone who was fighting against Union of India. And died.

 

[Falcon]

People change after a certain period of time.. Agreed that some of them will get into radicalization but when they were forced to feed their families and have to earn daily bread, most of them will lead a normal life!!

But sir, they are earning through stone pelting as they have no opportunity to work as the government is unable to secure the valley and environment for businesses to remain open.

 

[Falcon]

You think declaring them foreign agents and taking actions as a solution, Do check the funeral possession of the terrorists...... Let us not ignore the fact that there are certain amount of support for insurgency or terrorism which ever way you want to look at it.... The moment our forces zero in on a target there is stone pelters all over..... It is not a solution mate.....

Sir. Insurgency is fought on the principle of greater terror winning. Let us not forget that basic concept. Death is never a threat for those radicalised enough, as is the case, but familial loyalties do play a role.

You videograph and simply push these people across LoC. Anyways they claim brethren on other side. They can go and live there.

 

[Paro]

Sir, not true. India is primarily an unorganized sector dominated economy. When the wages are not assured and constant and the concept of daily wage is a norm, how will you expect the masses to earn if not through these activities? How will they feed their children and their families?

I never denied money didnt play a role. But in certain communities especially in Kashmir religious heads are given more importance than they should. When a certain family isn't participating in an unanimously declared activity by the heads they are boycotted by everyone around. There have been accounts of separatists forcing public to participate.

 

[Falcon]

I never denied money didnt play a role. But in certain communities especially in Kashmir religious heads are given more importance than they should. Went a certain family isn't participating in an unanimously declared activity by the heads they are boycotted by everyone around. There have been accounts of separatists forcing public to participate.

Sir. That is the case with every society in Indian subcontinent. That cuts across all political and religious affiliations.


And insurgency is based on precisely that premise - of coercing public participation against the 'target' party.

 

[bonobashi]

Actually a lot of people are of the opinion of repealing article 370,
what is lacking is the political will

With the greatest regret, Sir, this is impossible. There is no question of political will intervening in the situation, without totally destroying the legality of the relationship between the state of Jammu & Kashmir. My apologies for this very late interjection. Please feel free to ignore this.

 

[bonobashi]

The solution to Kashmir problem does not lie in India, it lies in Pakistan. Junagarh was the reason which resulted in invasion of Neutral J&K even though Pakistan had also signed a Stand still Agreement with J&K just like India. The solution will also come from same part of India. Invade Pakistan or forget POK.

Dear Sir,

Why should a defiant and originally rebellious POK be conquered by force and maintained by force? Every piece of evidence is clear that POK wanted nothing to do with India.

 

[bonobashi]

How about split Pakistan and then take over PoK ?

What on earth for, Sir?

 

[bonobashi]

@bonobashi

I am not sure that I have the maturity to participate in this particular discussion. It is so very antipathetic to my views that I find it difficult to find a point of connection.

 

[VCheng]

Did I make some mistake, Sir? About your remarks about the nature of this discussion? It seems that I grossly misunderstood the nature of the discussion.

The nature of the discussion is only what its participants make of it. My initial comments were in response to one side or the other trying to take over the remainder. I was merely pointing out that both sides are nuclear armed, and hence conventional warfare would quickly lead to MAD. Therefore, the nature of the any solution proposed or sought must be non violent.

I am not sure that I have the maturity to participate in this particular discussion. It is so very antipathetic to my views that I find it difficult to find a point of connection.

Let us establish an appropriately mature anchor point by an explanation of your views about this matter: what do you see as a "solution" to Kashmir?

 

[bonobashi]

The nature of the discussion is only what its participants make of it. My initial comments were in response to one side or the other trying to take over the remainder. I was merely pointing out that both sides are nuclear armed, and hence conventional warfare would quickly lead to MAD. Therefore, the nature of the any solution proposed or sought must be non violent.



Let us establish an appropriately mature anchor point by an explanation of your views about this matter: what do you see as a "solution" to Kashmir?

Quite simply, Sir, to accept the dissolution of the Dogra conquests from the 1830s onwards, and retain whatever is presently under Indian control, with full autonomy, rolled back from the underhanded extensions of the interim, back to the situation prevailing in 1953.

I can explain, but would like your reactions first.

 

[VCheng]

Quite simply, Sir, to accept the dissolution of the Dogra conquests from the 1830s onwards, and retain whatever is presently under Indian control, with full autonomy, rolled back from the underhanded extensions of the interim, back to the situation prevailing in 1953.

I can explain, but would like your reactions first.

My reaction would be supportive, given that establishing any mutually acceptable rationale that can consolidate the situation to the point both sides are relieved of the constant bickering that condemns a fifth of humanity to totally unnecessary squalor, would be a step forward.

 

[bonobashi]

My reaction would be supportive, given that establishing any mutually acceptable rationale that can consolidate the situation to the point both sides are relieved of the constant bickering that condemns a fifth of humanity to totally unnecessary squalor, would be a step forward.

What I suggested is based on plain common sense, Sir, that being a rare virtue rare enough to be called common. Consider the following facts:

1. The domain of the Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir started very small.
2. It originally consisted of the grant of the jagir of Jammu to Gulab Singh by Ranjit Singh, given to the Dogra for services rendered.
3. The Gulab Singh family took care to take a pre-emptive deed of transfer of the title by the previous Raja, also a relative.
4. Then during the existence of the Lahore suzerainty, the Dogras captured Kishtwar, Rajauri, and much of the foothills beyond the Shivaliks, largely through their own, home-grown doctrine of lapse. More than one of these came to them through the failure of existing rulers to maintain control over their state, and to the cupidity of their ministers.
5. Poonch was ruled by a collateral branch of the Jammu family, that was also related to the Gulab Singh branch. It was taken over by mandate from the Lahore Durbar, in order to exploit the mines there better, more efficiently; the Durbar felt that it was being short-changed and too much revenue was leaking away.
6. Already, in Kishtwar, Rajauri and Poonch, the Dogras had acquired Muslim majority principalities, and set in motion the disasters of 1947.
7. Their loyal general, Zorawar Singh, annexed through war and victory the area we call Baltistan and that we call Ladakh. While the two were very alike, they were not identical, and their annexation was based on the agreement of their suzerain, Tibet, directed by its own suzerain, China.
8. By the time of the fall of the Lahore Durbar, the Dogras had acquired a conglomeration of territories in the shape of a doughnut, with the vale represented by the central hole of the doughnut.
9. Jointly with the British (please note this), the Dogras then captured the cis-Pamir Emirates. Sometimes with great slaughter, even among the non-combatant women and children.
10. The British then took away the territory of Gilgit under a lease from the Srinagar Durbar, only returning it less than a month before independence, thereby ensuring that the change would be rejected by the people.

That is for the acquisition. You can see for yourself that the portions that broke away did so in refusal of the Maharaja's authority to speak for them. The action they took is a separate story.

 

[Falcon]

Quite simply, Sir, to accept the dissolution of the Dogra conquests from the 1830s onwards, and retain whatever is presently under Indian control, with full autonomy, rolled back from the underhanded extensions of the interim, back to the situation prevailing in 1953.

I can explain, but would like your reactions first.

Sir.

There is nothing underhanded as you have made the situation out to be. All steps were taken in complete conjunction with the State government within the legal parameters of the relationship established at the time of accession.

When you propose a roll back to 1953, would you not say that this resonates with the demand of the Catalans in Spain and Kurds in Iraq-Turkey-Iran-Syria (okay the latter is talking about a couple of centuries)?

How about abolishing Article 370 in conjunction with the State Government?

 

[bonobashi]

Sir.

There is nothing underhanded as you have made the situation out to be. All steps were taken in complete conjunction with the State government within the legal parameters of the relationship established at the time of accession.

When you propose a roll back to 1953, would you not say that this resonates with the demand of the Catalans in Spain and Kurds in Iraq-Turkey-Iran-Syria (okay the latter is talking about a couple of centuries)?

How about abolishing Article 370 in conjunction with the State Government?

Sir,

The situation is indeed underhanded. The dispensation given to the Centre, under the Constitution, for incorporation of subjects to be implemented by Ordinance in J&K was a one-time dispensation, for a single use only, that has been misused by successive Governments at the Centre over nearly sixty years, the first time, in the full realisation by the ministers and bureaucrats at Delhi that they were collusive in a breach of the Constitution. The legal parameters that you refer to have been specifically and egregiously violated. You might find Dr. Rajendra Prasad's views on the matter of interest.

And as for the comparison with the Catalans and the Kurds, neither of them had the constitutional sanction that the Kashmiris do. Article 370 is hard-wired into the Constitution of India.

Lastly, I sympathise with the frequent attempts of opponents of the status quo to do away with Article 370. Please look at the legal situation once again. It is not a question of the Indian Parliament passing a law with a simply majority; it is not even a question of the Indian Parliament passing a law with a two-thirds majority sufficient for a constitutional amendment either.

Only the state Constituent Assembly was empowered to inform the Indian Parliament that Article 370 is no longer needed, and may be abrogated. The state Constituent Assembly dissolved itself without so informing the Indian Parliament. This Constituent Assembly cannot be reformed, and is forever extinct. Therefore, a possibility of informing the Indian Parliament that Article 370 is no longer needed does not exist, and can never exist, not if we want to retain any legal link to the Valley or to Ladakh or to Jammu.

Please do bear in mind, Sir, that this is not my personal opinion, but the irrefutable legal position, that has been examined gingerly by far greater constitutional authorities than I, and from which position those experts have found it best to retire, creeping away furtively to avoid attracting attention.