let's wait the final german bill.....
I hope for you they will not decide an embargo during the construction phase.
I hope for you they will not decide an embargo during the construction phase.
It will definitely increase in future.
Just like cost of 6 scorpene subs also increased by the time last was delivered.
And the cost of 3 additional will also increase by the time all are delivered.
Can confidently say the same for Indonesian deal.
But the initial quoted price is still too high if even compared to Indonesian deal.
I too have that worry.
Not only is the French diesel a generation behind the Germans,
Your Barracuda, which you offered Australia is also way behind, We didn't want it
The French sub we were getting was limited French Hull and drive line, the rest was old tech and we didn't want it,,, the guts of it was AU/US
If the French can work a deal for ToT on Nuke subs for India, that could possibly work
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We already have SSBNs and have the capability to make them along with their missiles, why would we need French help lol. Indian and French SSBN programs are worlds apart and so will be the SSN programs.
I don't know how the tech lines up, I assume yours is Russian based, Perhaps the French has some tech worth having?
The missile is completely self made, the reactor is derived heavily from the Charlie class iirc. The reactors we have uses more HEU compared to the French reactors so they're quite different. Only thing worth procuring is pump jet and other sub quietning tech, maybe some advanced sonar sensor stuff too but considering the amount of funding the government is giving for this program me thinks we can do it by ourselves too.
French SSN AND SSBN tech is way ahead of ours right now.
For example
PANG (Porte-avions de nouvelle génération), will be nuclear-powered and is designed to have two K22 reactors from TechnicAtome. These reactors will provide a combined power of up to 450 MW of thermal power to run the propulsion system and provide electricity for the ship's systems.
The French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle has a total thermal output of 300 MW from its two K15 pressurized water reactors.
~50% more power for future pang, which will be ~73% heavier in total displacement than current charles.
They are betting on better efficiency in harnessing the reactors power and more efficient hull design of pang to make do with only 50% reactor output increase for a 73% heavier carrier.
I don't know if the tech is firewalled, but BAE and Thales UK are doing the sonar on the AUKUS and Thales does the AU Collins sonar, I don't know if Thales FR owns IP or has access
The French sold the Mistral class to Russia, before they were pressured not to go through with delivery, India is seen more favourably, so there could be discussions going on
The question is about what Navy wants. Its not about money. If the negotiations were completed, it means we were satisfied.
Keep in mind that the Type 209s although 40 year old will start retiring from 2033-34.
Of the 7 Kilos, the oldest is expected to go out of service by this year end. And we will likely be left with 4 Kilos by 2033, if we extend its service at the cost of trained men.
That means in 2030-35 we will have at best 8 submarines (if 3 follow on subs are cancelled) at 2 coasts, along with 8 50 year old boats.
This when Pak alone will have 11 boats and Bangladesh may have 4.
Indian Navy's power projection will be limited to coastal waters, untill 2040.
That's the cost of cancelling additional Kalvaris.
Keep in mind that the Type 209s although 40 year old will start retiring from 2033-34.
Of the 7 Kilos, the oldest is expected to go out of service by this year end. And we will likely be left with 4 Kilos by 2033, if we extend its service at the cost of trained men.
That means in 2030-35 we will have at best 8 submarines (if 3 follow on subs are cancelled) at 2 coasts, along with 8 50 year old boats.
This when Pak alone will have 11 boats and Bangladesh may have 4.
Indian Navy's power projection will be limited to coastal waters, untill 2040.
That's the cost of cancelling additional Kalvaris.
12 German subs built 6+6 in MDL and private sector.. will lead to faster induction?
The German offering is a brand new design and there are many things that go wrong which can delay construction even further.
Simply increasing the number of boats on order isn't going to rectify the unknowns with construction of a brand new design & platform.
The Kalvaris are based on a tried and tested design that has been in service with various nations since 2005 and MDL has gained a significant amount of expertise building these boats, so those 3 boats will definitely be in service before the P75I boats.
The Kalvari assembly line at MDL is already idle. The 3 follow-on B2 boats would've helped preserve crucial hull fabrication, welding skills gained from the B1 production run. But now that we're dithering once again, I'm willing to bet that countries like Taiwan, Oz would pay any price to hire those skilled workers.
Besides, I'd always thought that the cost of Kalvari B2 included secret payments for Suffren class design blueprints or components meant for P77 SSN. Apparently that's not the case. Back to Russia for design consultancy, then?
Besides, I'd always thought that the cost of Kalvari B2 included secret payments for Suffren class design blueprints or components meant for P77 SSN. Apparently that's not the case. Back to Russia for design consultancy, then?
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Will benefit in 2035-40 period.
Both the shipyards will take 6-7 years to deliver the 1st vessel from the date of signing.
french bashing? What was factually incorrect?Pessimism and french bashing, from all than an Optimist
1,The french were going to build the hull and drive train, Australia was going to fit it out with mostly AU and US tech
2, We were offered the French nuke barracuda, but we said no
3, the article posted said the French diesel is a generation behind the German's
Immensely disappointed with Scorpenes decision.
"A bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush".
The P75I contract is not even signed yet. The situation is a self inflicted wound - MDL probably cannot make both models simultaneusly.
"A bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush".
The P75I contract is not even signed yet. The situation is a self inflicted wound - MDL probably cannot make both models simultaneusly.
False.
1) Only the tactical system was US, and probably the weapons. And what kind of Australian systems for SSK exist ? life jacket ?
2) No. Barracuda SSN was not offered so not refused. Why? because it was forbiden by non proliferation agreement. Something uncle Sam and the brits didn't respect.
3) The article compare the Scorpene, a mature product, to a german paper SSK. like to compare F47 and F35... (even if F35 is not mature).
1, There is a lot from the Collins, Australian tech on CBASS, for a starter, It isn't that hard to look at the ADF and Australian companies involved in the future sub
2, Is your Google broken? However, the reason this came up is because I said that French nukes subs could be an option for India and I gave australia's experience with the french offer
after the nuke sub was announced Macron offered a Nuke barracuda, which would have been easier, as the tech was already in place, We said no, on the basis that it would need nuke refueling and we wouldn't have enough sovereignty, In truth the deal with the UK and US was done and there wasn't a serious consideration,
The French are still offering to supply us with subs, which would be nukes
3, so you now accept that the German is a generation ahead?
2, Is your Google broken? However, the reason this came up is because I said that French nukes subs could be an option for India and I gave australia's experience with the french offer
after the nuke sub was announced Macron offered a Nuke barracuda, which would have been easier, as the tech was already in place, We said no, on the basis that it would need nuke refueling and we wouldn't have enough sovereignty, In truth the deal with the UK and US was done and there wasn't a serious consideration,
The French are still offering to supply us with subs, which would be nukes
3, so you now accept that the German is a generation ahead?
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