Kalvari Class Submarines - Updates & Discussions

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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India
Why aren't we ordering next subs..
Production won't get idle?

The Scorpene project is ending with 6 subs because its current configuration is already outdated, it was supposed to be inducted between 2012 and 2017. The navy needs larger, more capable subs that can patrol regions thousands of kilometers away from their base, which will come with the new tender.
 

Arctic Wolf

Member
Sep 7, 2021
75
45
Odisha
The Scorpene project is ending with 6 subs because its current configuration is already outdated, it was supposed to be inducted between 2012 and 2017. The navy needs larger, more capable subs that can patrol regions thousands of kilometers away from their base, which will come with the new tender.
Isn't DSME the only contender remaining now (since TKMS withdrew)?
 

Amarante

Well-Known member
Jun 22, 2021
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La Défense, France
Isn't DSME the only contender remaining now (since TKMS withdrew)?
There are four contenders for the Indian Navy's next generation P75I submarine. They are currently submitting design proposals to the Indian government. Whatever the outcome, the boats should all be built in India. The deal will therefore take into account political and industrial considerations as well as naval requirements.

The four competitors are the Barracuda from France, the S-80-Plus from Spain, the DSME-3000 from South Korea and Amur design from Russia. Germany had also been a candidate, but recently said it had dropped out.
 

Arctic Wolf

Member
Sep 7, 2021
75
45
Odisha
Sorry, got mistaken with the number of contenders.

1. The French Barracuda may not have a French AIP (the Attack class proposal didn't). And the Amur/Lada class doesn't have an AIP either. So is there a possibility that the DRDO AIP under-development might be used, should these designs get selected?

2. Is the plan to refit the Scorpenes with the Indian AIP still on?

Do you have any idea on when we can expect the P75I submarine contract to be awarded (assuming IN wants the first sub by 2027-28, they'll need to start construction within 1-2 years)?
 

AbRaj

Senior member
Dec 6, 2017
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Republic of Wadiya
Sorry, got mistaken with the number of contenders.

1. The French Barracuda may not have a French AIP (the Attack class proposal didn't). And the Amur/Lada class doesn't have an AIP either. So is there a possibility that the DRDO AIP under-development might be used, should these designs get selected?

2. Is the plan to refit the Scorpenes with the Indian AIP still on?

Do you have any idea on when we can expect the P75I submarine contract to be awarded (assuming IN wants the first sub by 2027-28, they'll need to start construction within 1-2 years)?
This deal is Naval group to loose now. Orherwise none other option meets all the requirements(considering VLS for SLCM and AIP are two of them).
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,983
10,956
India
Sorry, got mistaken with the number of contenders.

1. The French Barracuda may not have a French AIP (the Attack class proposal didn't). And the Amur/Lada class doesn't have an AIP either. So is there a possibility that the DRDO AIP under-development might be used, should these designs get selected?

2. Is the plan to refit the Scorpenes with the Indian AIP still on?

No way to tell anything right now. Gotta wait for official announcement.

Do you have any idea on when we can expect the P75I submarine contract to be awarded (assuming IN wants the first sub by 2027-28, they'll need to start construction within 1-2 years)?

If the IN wants actual evaluations, particularly AIP, then it would take years, most of the 4 left will fail 'cause only the Koreans have it ready. If the IN is fine with paper evaluations, then a shortlist can be done within 6 months after the MoD hands over the tender to the IN.
 

jk007

Member
Apr 9, 2020
82
53
Boston, USA
No way to tell anything right now. Gotta wait for official announcement.



If the IN wants actual evaluations, particularly AIP, then it would take years, most of the 4 left will fail 'cause only the Koreans have it ready. If the IN is fine with paper evaluations, then a shortlist can be done within 6 months after the MoD hands over the tender to the IN.
@_Anonymous_ many years ago, I remember (?) you mentioned that you have inside info on AIP development in India. You also mentioned that there are great people working on it, and that the project is showing great potential to complete successfully.

I guess that was not the case. Not many articles in what went wrong.

Any idea? Is that project shelved?
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,251
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Mumbai
@_Anonymous_ many years ago, I remember (?) you mentioned that you have inside info on AIP development in India. You also mentioned that there are great people working on it, and that the project is showing great potential to complete successfully.

I guess that was not the case. Not many articles in what went wrong.

Any idea? Is that project shelved?
Nope. You must be mistaking me for someone else. In any case we're nearing 2022. A lot of dynamic developments have been predicted for next year. Both - the expected & the unexpected . Belt your seats up. It's going to be one hell of an exciting roller coaster ride.

The project itself is very much alive as per recent articles . I guess the refit of INS Kalvari is due in 2023 . That's when the AIP goes in & the testing would commence . If everything goes well then by 2027-28 the system itself would be certified for use in the rest of the Kalvari class.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
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Bangalore

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,251
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Mumbai

It says that Scorpenes are currently using Russian Torpedoes with life extension. Also no desi version available right now, to import will likely be done.
Ban on Leonardo was lifted more than a year back yet no plans in pipeline or on table for procurement of Blacksharks.

How exactly did they mate the Russian torpedoes to the CMS of the Scorpenes ?

PKS has been jumping up & down shouting for years to anybody who'd care to listen that there was absolutely no alternative to the Blacksharks given the CMS of the Scorpenes except a couple of other European alternatives which didn't exactly match the potency & efficacy of the Blacksharks.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,983
10,956
India

It says that Scorpenes are currently using Russian Torpedoes with life extension. Also no desi version available right now, to import will likely be done.

Incorrect. Our Scorpenes are using upgraded SUT torpedoes that are used on our Type 209s.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
4,208
4,024
Bangalore
Ban on Leonardo was lifted more than a year back yet no plans in pipeline or on table for procurement of Blacksharks.

How exactly did they mate the Russian torpedoes to the CMS of the Scorpenes ?

PKS has been jumping up & down shouting for years to anybody who'd care to listen that there was absolutely no alternative to the Blacksharks given the CMS of the Scorpenes except a couple of other European alternatives which didn't exactly match the potency & efficacy of the Blacksharks.
Black Shark, F21 and DM2A4 are the ready to use solutions available.

Given Germany doesn't show much interest, it's between Black Shark or F21.
 
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Bon Plan

Senior member
Dec 1, 2017
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France
Black Shark, F21 and DM2A4 are the ready to use solutions available.

Given Germany doesn't show much interest, it's between Black Shark or F21.
French navy is not so enthousiast about F21 : the tests were not highly conclusiv. Main problem : the range & speed combo.
A first small batch of "evol 1" F21 is produce for SSN. Another one of "evol2" is on the agenda with better perf.