Kalvari Class Submarines - Updates & Discussions

Ankit Kumar

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Nov 30, 2017
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French navy is not so enthousiast about F21 : the tests were not highly conclusiv. Main problem : the range & speed combo.
A first small batch of "evol 1" F21 is produce for SSN. Another one of "evol2" is on the agenda with better perf.
It will then likely lead to a small batch procurement of Blackshark.

But on F21, what will the Brazilian Scorpenes carry ?
 

randomradio

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aditya g

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Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
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Yup. After this MDL submarine division will be Vela.
Extremely quick movement on P75I will see actual contract signing by 2024 and the first submarine delivery by 2027. If everything is fast.

Ordering say 3-4 extra Scorpene will take from AoN to CCS , around 6 months if the forces decide, another 1 year for contract signing and procurement of lead materials.

By 2025 we will have first 2 delivered.

And it will not hamper the production of P75I even if it goes to MDL.

Alas.... By year end when PN suddenly gets 4 new SSKs....
 
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randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Extremely quick movement on P75I will see actual contract signing by 2024 and the first submarine delivery by 2027. If everything is fast.

Ordering say 3-4 extra Scorpene will take from AoN to CCS , around 6 months if the forces decide, another 1 year for contract signing and procurement of lead materials.

By 2025 we will have first 2 delivered.

And it will not hamper the production of P75I even if it goes to MDL.

Alas.... By year end when PN suddenly gets 4 new SSKs....

A repeat order of 3 Scorpenes will take 7-10 years for all 3.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
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Bangalore
A repeat order of 3 Scorpenes will take 7-10 years for all 3.
Two can be produced together and ToT for assembly will no longer be required which takes up a lot of time.

Anyways once there is a break of production for 4-5 years, any new P75I design will take a lot of time for ToT absorption , we simply messed this up.

While C17 mess up was not that big a loss, this is pretty much repeat of Type209.

We will again need to start from scratch.
And if this doesn't happen, I would hope that instead of getting the first P75I somewhere in 2028-29 , cancel the whole project and put those 6 billion USD in SSN production.

Let these Scorpene be our last manned SSK and invest in SSNs.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
14,983
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India
Two can be produced together and ToT for assembly will no longer be required which takes up a lot of time.

Anyways once there is a break of production for 4-5 years, any new P75I design will take a lot of time for ToT absorption , we simply messed this up.

While C17 mess up was not that big a loss, this is pretty much repeat of Type209.

We will again need to start from scratch.
And if this doesn't happen, I would hope that instead of getting the first P75I somewhere in 2028-29 , cancel the whole project and put those 6 billion USD in SSN production.

The Scorpene is too old by IN's standards. It's like pushing for more MKIs instead of buying new Rafales. Or Arjuns instead of FRCV.

Let these Scorpene be our last manned SSK and invest in SSNs.

We need both though. We need P-75I for the technologies it will bring (Rafale). And we need P-76 in order to achieve self-sufficiency (AMCA). Scorpene is like the MKI, it delivers neither.
 

RISING SUN

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Dec 3, 2017
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Extremely quick movement on P75I will see actual contract signing by 2024 and the first submarine delivery by 2027. If everything is fast.

Ordering say 3-4 extra Scorpene will take from AoN to CCS , around 6 months if the forces decide, another 1 year for contract signing and procurement of lead materials.

By 2025 we will have first 2 delivered.

And it will not hamper the production of P75I even if it goes to MDL.

Alas.... By year end when PN suddenly gets 4 new SSKs....
I believe MDL has signed the order of unmanned submarine already, not much is disclosed in public domain. So it's not like production line is going to get idle. 2nd there is ongoing Discussion on next SSk series along with 3 additional boats of Scorpion class. Whether that discussion converts into concrete order is yet to be seen.

Aside, I haven't seen enough push from MDL for submarine exports till now despite it being the most experienced conventional submarine builder in India. Let's hope they at least make some attempt earnestly.
 

_Anonymous_

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Dec 4, 2017
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I believe MDL has signed the order of unmanned submarine already, not much is disclosed in public domain. So it's not like production line is going to get idle. 2nd there is ongoing Discussion on next SSk series along with 3 additional boats of Scorpion class. Whether that discussion converts into concrete order is yet to be seen.

Aside, I haven't seen enough push from MDL for submarine exports till now despite it being the most experienced conventional submarine builder in India. Let's hope they at least make some attempt earnestly.
I don't think the IN intends to order new Scorpenes. Had the opposite been the case , they'd have already ordered additional ones by now.

Why? I've no clue & I'm not buying the obsolescence theory being peddled. If you accept this argument it automatically follows that the current Scorpenes are themselves obsolete . All this in less than 5 yrs since the first Scorpene was inducted into service & it's more or less the same story across the world with the first of their export orders having been commissioned around a decade ago +/- 2 yrs.

In the event Naval Group has reiterated it's offer of upgraded Scorpenes plenty of times, were IN to consider additional Scorpenes. IN chose not to exercise that option. Has it something to do with leaked documents pertaining to Scorpenes on the web in Australia few yrs ago ? As of now we don't know the answer to that one though the IN & NG claims nothing confidential was revealed.

For MDL to handle exports, they ought to tie up with Naval Group preferably since we've no indigenous design of our own & since they've already collaborated before & the former can take advantage of the costs of mfg in India for export orders they bag. Frankly neither parties seem interested in it.

MDL could team up with Kockums or Thyssen Group as well but it's a bit of a long shot as both the foreign OEMs would be interested in collaboration only if GoI / MoD / IN is the client not for 3rd party deliveries , I suspect.
 
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