Kalvari Class Submarines - Updates & Discussions

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
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Almost all subs can fire missiles from torpedo tubes. At best, 6 missiles, and only 1 or 2 capable of being fired at once. It's not tactically efficient. What I'm referring to is a larger volley with 8-12 missiles from VLS. IN wants 12 Brahmos-Ms in VLS for their next batch of submarines.
Unlike Kilo, where only 2 out of 6 tubes can fire LACMs, in Scorpene, all 6 can fire MdCN. And it can very well carry 18 MdCN or a mix of 12 MdCN and 6 F21 torpedoes.

Brahmos is a costly system, if need arises to say attack Quetta Airbase from Arabian sea, it would be better to use 20-30 Klubs, not 20-30 Brahmos, they are costly and would be used for specific targets only as we cannot have them in very large numbers, but we can have something like Klub or MdCN in thousands , Navy wants something like 1000-1500km range subsonic Klub but with better terminal guidance to increase accuracy. The French and British SSNs fire LACMs from torpedo tubes, so no problem for IN to use Scorpene for the same purpose.

It will only reduce complications.
 
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randomradio

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Unlike Kilo, where only 2 out of 6 tubes can fire LACMs, in Scorpene, all 6 can fire MdCN. And it can very well carry 18 MdCN or a mix of 12 MdCN and 6 F21 torpedoes.

That's pointless. Can't carry one for the other. The primary duty of the Scorpene is to hunt and kill submarines and ships, land attack is a secondary capability, and most of it is needed for the anti-ship role using the Exocet now and Brahmos-M later.

Also, torpedo tubes primarily are equipped with torpedoes rather than land attack cruise missiles because reequipping them can either be impossible or time consuming. So you can always expect most or all torpedo tubes to come with torpedoes. Only 2 torpedo tubes are sometimes equipped with AShM, sometimes none. Allowing all 6 tubes to fire missiles is only for the sake of flexibility.

The next line of subs will carry land attack missiles in VLS, and only those missiles are generally used for land attack, while maintaining the torpedo based missiles for anti-ship role. Although, with Brahmos, you can use it for both.

As for further Scorpene orders, from the time a new contract is signed to the time the first sub is delivered, it will take 7+ years. This is about the same time it will take for new gen subs to start coming in. So it makes sense to end Scorpene with 6.

Brahmos is a costly system, if need arises to say attack Quetta Airbase from Arabian sea, it would be better to use 20-30 Klubs, not 20-30 Brahmos, they are costly and would be used for specific targets only as we cannot have them in very large numbers, but we can have something like Klub or MdCN in thousands , Navy wants something like 1000-1500km range subsonic Klub but with better terminal guidance to increase accuracy. The French and British SSNs fire LACMs from torpedo tubes, so no problem for IN to use Scorpene for the same purpose.

It will only reduce complications.

Klub has to be fully imported, more than half of Brahmos is now made in India. It's obvious we will use Brahmos. For long range, we will use the new long range missile being developed in place of Nirbhay. I don't believe there are any plans to buy the long range version of Klub as of now for use in submarines. Even the MdCN will not be required. Our long range missile will come with anti-shipping capability as well.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Unlike Kilo, where only 2 out of 6 tubes can fire LACMs, in Scorpene, all 6 can fire MdCN. And it can very well carry 18 MdCN or a mix of 12 MdCN and 6 F21 torpedoes.

Brahmos is a costly system, if need arises to say attack Quetta Airbase from Arabian sea, it would be better to use 20-30 Klubs, not 20-30 Brahmos, they are costly and would be used for specific targets only as we cannot have them in very large numbers, but we can have something like Klub or MdCN in thousands , Navy wants something like 1000-1500km range subsonic Klub but with better terminal guidance to increase accuracy. The French and British SSNs fire LACMs from torpedo tubes, so no problem for IN to use Scorpene for the same purpose.

It will only reduce complications.

Btw, there are rumours floating around of P-75I being split being MDL and L&T.
 

Ashwin

Agent_47
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Nov 30, 2017
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I don't know what the Navantia time is, but what I do know is that they gave up construction along the way and the French had to replace them without notice so that the Indian yards could finish the job.
Has anything ever a French problem ?

IN wants 12 Brahmos-Ms in VLS for their next batch of submarines
Do you have the RFI documents to say this ?
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Do you have the RFI documents to say this ?

I doubt RFI will carry such information, there won't be any absolutes in it. 12 is the max expected. The largest A26 variant offered 18 IIRC, but A26 is out. Whereas SMX 3 is offering 8. Amur can give as many as 10. So the IN may award points based on whatever the OEMs decide to offer. Even the RFP will likely carry a minimum of 8 and tell it's up to the OEM to surpass that.

And all these come in just one section. If more are needed, more sections can be attached if necessary. So this requirement is very flexible.

12 is what I've heard the navy personnel say.
 
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Bon Plan

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Dec 1, 2017
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As for further Scorpene orders, from the time a new contract is signed to the time the first sub is delivered, it will take 7+ years. This is about the same time it will take for new gen subs to start coming in. So it makes sense to end Scorpene with 6.
less, far less time needed.
 
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randomradio

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Not if you are producing another time a sub already produced.

According to MDL, that was a few years ago. Now, if we order new Scorpenes, the entire process from long lead procurement to first metal cut will be as long a process as making a whole new sub. The only advantage is we have a trained and experienced workforce.
MDL can start work on 2 submarines simultaneously. So within 4 years 2 submarines will get delivered. Any pause will lead to loss of trained and skilled workforce.

No, MDL did not get authorisation for the second line. They can only produce 1 sub at a time.
 

_Anonymous_

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Dec 4, 2017
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_Anonymous_

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Dec 4, 2017
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As I understand the process, it's something like this. The Scorpenes come back for MLU. One of them is cut open & the AIP system installed. Post that the Sub undergoes trials till all concerned are duly satisfied with it's performance. Then it's certified & the process repeated for the other subs. Hence the entire process for certifying the pilot system ought to take a good 5-6 years assuming, of course, no major mishaps or delays due to other factors.