Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

Milspec

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No. It's a mix of budget and capability problems.

For example, ATAGS doesn't meet mountain requirements. The IA wants a lighter gun to navigate the terrain. Many of the bridges cannot handle its weight. It also needs to undergo an Mk1A/Mk2 transition to bring it on par with more modern Western guns. My guess is the IA will split the requirement between ATAGS and a second lighter gun.

K9 is going through, it's just a budget problem 'cause a lot of money was spent on emergency purchases to fill holes elsewhere. Now most of that emergency stuff has already been paid for. A signature is expected to happen soon, negotiations began in Feb.

MGS is awaiting prototypes from the private sector for testing. Both 105mm and 155mm. The 105mm ones are being upgraded. The 155mm will take until the end of the decade, minus an emergency purchase of 300 guns, which will follow the K9 purchase, but will take time to test and choose one.

Dhanush is a clusterfvuk, OFB screwed up, so new timetable. But more will be bought in the 52cal version. I won't be surprised if the pending order is also upgraded to 52cal.

Sharang is proceeding as usual. Another 500 are expected to be upgunned.

More M777s are on the anvil, it's a new extended range version with a 55cal barrel, in development.

Because of Bofors, K9, M777, Dhanush and Sharang, the IA is focusing much more on the technology side for the next round of procurements for the primary towed gun requirement and MGS. The idea is to get as much tech as possible right now so it remains relevant even 30 years down the line. New guns require all sorts of protection, anti-drone, anti-rocket, anti-missile etc alongside networking and electronic warfare. MGS in particular will need stealth as well.

With that said, our numbers are now pretty good. All 410 Bofors will be replaced by Dhanush Mk2, that takes us to about 414 guns. Sharang numbers could climb from 480 to 900-1000. M777 and M777ER could give us 145+300 guns. K9 will eventually climb to 300. ATAGS and MGS are expected at 300+ each. Of these only the M777 and K9 are foreign, without corruption to boot. That's practically 1350+ guns assured and 1100 more guns on the anvil, and only 1000 of the 2400+ guns are upgrades. So we are only unsure of around 1800 guns, towed and MGS. It's not bad at all. Especially if the remaining 1800 guns are expected to bring in new capabilities.
In which world do we have 410 Haubits? More than half of them were cannibalized back in 2016.
 

randomradio

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A basic battery level unit is nine guns.

I've been reading up on PLA's orbat. The artillery is the same as IA.

A PLA artillery battalion has 18 guns, that's 3 batteries of 4-6 guns each. There is no 9-gun unit.

I should make a correction here. Both of us are correct.

An artillery battalion connected to a CAB is a 9-gun unit. But an artillery brigade has 2 battalions with 18 guns each, and this is configured in the IA style, so 4-6 guns per battery.
 

randomradio

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Highly unlikely.

You brought up the same argument years ago, and @Hellfire pointed out that all guns are operational.

With such severe shortage, and the fact that the IA is upgrading older guns than Bofors, it makes sense that their best gun has also been upgraded. In any case, the 414 Dhanush will replace the Bofors 1-to-1.
 

Milspec

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You brought up the same argument years ago, and @Hellfire pointed out that all guns are operational.

Dont recall that. Point it out if you can....My info is from Deolali, strong enough to stick my neck out.
With such severe shortage, and the fact that the IA is upgrading older guns than Bofors, it makes sense that their best gun has also been upgraded. In any case, the 414 Dhanush will replace the Bofors 1-to-1.
When a gun is cannibalized there is nothing left to upgrade. As far as replacements.... post Parrikar... its all doom and gloom, lets see how it goes. If LOC goes hot tomorrow, we will be headless chickens again. And this time around... there won't be emergency purchases from russians.
 

randomradio

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Dont recall that. Point it out if you can....My info is from Deolali, strong enough to stick my neck out.

I recall you missed it. 'Cause he was cryptic as usual. I obviously can't go looking for it, been years, especially if it was on the older forum.

When a gun is cannibalized there is nothing left to upgrade. As far as replacements.... post Parrikar... its all doom and gloom, lets see how it goes. If LOC goes hot tomorrow, we will be headless chickens again. And this time around... there won't be emergency purchases from russians.

Cannibalization doesn't break the gun, they are not scrapping it, all you gotta do is replace the part that was taken with a new one.

I mean, the entire point of a gun is you can disassemble it completely and reassemble it anywhere you want. It's also very highly repairable in the field, never mind a factory.

Just like the assembly and disassembly of a rifle, the same is done to a gun during maintenance.
 

marich01

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Is not it a little odd the report states the type of warhead, but no mention of which pinaka versions when there are 4?
 

randomradio

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Not a bad try from AWEIL. Apart from the 300 guns promised by the IA, they are aiming for these new 400 guns too. I don't think they will win though.

So, at least we know the current participants; AWEIL's Dhanush, Kalyani's Bharat 52 and Adani's (with Elbit) ATHOS. L&T is working with Nexter on a modern gun based on the CAESAR, which they have claimed they can start delivering within a year of order placement. Yet to see who else will join. Gotta see what Tata's gonna offer.

The 15T requirement kicks ATAGS out of the race, although some will come in through a separate requirement. Worst case, it goes the Arjun way, with only a few regiments bought. The 400-gun order can climb to its full 1600 limit after all.
 
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Gautam

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