Indian AESA Radar Developments

Ashwin

Agent_47
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LRDE should give a date on which it can deliver fully certified version , till that date whatever number of MK1A HAL plans to build, we should buy those many 2052.
No need. If it's ready integrate it else don't. No need to depend on it.

Even if they got to work radar as per requirement then there are still hurdles of integration with Israeli EW suits and BVR missiles.

It should be default for future additional Mk1A/B orders.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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LRDE should give a date on which it can deliver fully certified version , till that date whatever number of MK1A HAL plans to build, we should buy those many 2052.

They will make the radar in time for the last 2 squadrons of Mk1A, but will fail in integrating it with the Israeli supplied EW suite in any realistic timeframe. IAF may not agree to changing specs in the middle of delivery either.

But what I do see is the HAL pushing for the delivery of 3 more squadrons of Mk1A, perhaps with the Uttam and other electronics developed for MWF.
 

rockstarIN

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Dec 26, 2017
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They will make the radar in time for the last 2 squadrons of Mk1A, but will fail in integrating it with the Israeli supplied EW suite in any realistic timeframe. IAF may not agree to changing specs in the middle of delivery either.

But what I do see is the HAL pushing for the delivery of 3 more squadrons of Mk1A, perhaps with the Uttam and other electronics developed for MWF.

By the time we get Astra-2 and integration of meteor(by any chance) to LCA MKIA successfully, at least 3-4 sqdns will be exported.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

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Dec 4, 2017
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They will make the radar in time for the last 2 squadrons of Mk1A, but will fail in integrating it with the Israeli supplied EW suite in any realistic timeframe. IAF may not agree to changing specs in the middle of delivery either.

But what I do see is the HAL pushing for the delivery of 3 more squadrons of Mk1A, perhaps with the Uttam and other electronics developed for MWF.

HAL will try to integrate Uttam with Mk1 A , atleast after 2025

They cannot wait for MK 2

Israel will ask for some
"consultation fees " ; but waiting till MK 2 is wrong
By the time we get Astra-2 and integration of meteor(by any chance) to LCA MKIA successfully, at least 3-4 sqdns will be exported.

The First MK 1A is coming in 2023

And all 83 till 2028

So.there is no chance of exports
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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HAL will try to integrate Uttam with Mk1 A , atleast after 2025

They cannot wait for MK 2

Israel will ask for some
"consultation fees " ; but waiting till MK 2 is wrong

Mk2 will get Uttam before Mk1A does. The plan is to start flying in 2023 and get IOC in 2025-26, so the first flight's going to have to be a fully configured aircraft.

They will most likely use the Mk2 experience on the Mk1A.

Anyway, if they try to do it after 2025, it means they skipped out on the currently ordered Mk1A squadrons. 'Cause the HAL's supposed to finish delivery of all 73 in 2026. But I do think HAL is willing to take the risk of switching configuration to Uttam for 1 or 2 squadrons. However I see a greater possibility of the HAL simply pushing for more squadrons with the Uttam beyond the first 4 squadrons, all in the name of supporting indigenous projects. HAL's been pushing for 3 more squadrons after the 6.
 

rockstarIN

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Dec 26, 2017
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Why we want to export it by reducing the squadrons for IAF?

IAF protect us or foreign AF?

What I said like if IAF sticks to original plan of 83 of MKIA and if we are able to get the same with AESA+Meteor, there will be interested customers.
Export ? There isn't a market for this category of fighter jet anymore.


Well, Gripen C/D still flying with few countries. If the cost is as same as Gripen C/D and we offer them AESA+Meteor, it will be attractive for foreign customers.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

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Dec 4, 2017
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Mk2 will get Uttam before Mk1A does. The plan is to start flying in 2023 and get IOC in 2025-26, so the first flight's going to have to be a fully configured aircraft.

They will most likely use the Mk2 experience on the Mk1A.

Anyway, if they try to do it after 2025, it means they skipped out on the currently ordered Mk1A squadrons. 'Cause the HAL's supposed to finish delivery of all 73 in 2026. But I do think HAL is willing to take the risk of switching configuration to Uttam for 1 or 2 squadrons. However I see a greater possibility of the HAL simply pushing for more squadrons with the Uttam beyond the first 4 squadrons, all in the name of supporting indigenous projects. HAL's been pushing for 3 more squadrons after the 6.

I believe that we will simply cancel
Single Engine MK2 and tell HAL and DRDO to make a twin engined MK2

Do you think that after MK 1 and MK 1A delays , IAF will be interested in a Single
Engined Plane

What is all the talk about ORCA , TEDBF
 

Ankit Kumar

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Nov 30, 2017
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Why we want to export it by reducing the squadrons for IAF?

IAF protect us or foreign AF?

Production speed can always be ramped up, or
What I said like if IAF sticks to original plan of 83 of MKIA and if we are able to get the same with AESA+Meteor, there will be interested customers.



Well, Gripen C/D still flying with few countries. If the cost is as same as Gripen C/D and we offer them AESA+Meteor, it will be attractive for foreign customers.
Long Range AAMs and AESA are important but not everything. It doesn't just work that way.

Even then , let's say I agree to your point. List 3 realistic markets for MK1A in 2025.
I believe that we will simply cancel
Single Engine MK2 and tell HAL and DRDO to make a twin engined MK2

Do you think that after MK 1 and MK 1A delays , IAF will be interested in a Single
Engined Plane

What is all the talk about ORCA , TEDBF
For the roles we want MK2 to do , single engine triumps.

The only talk about ORCA is from Twitter.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

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Dec 4, 2017
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Production speed can always be ramped up, or

Long Range AAMs and AESA are important but not everything. It doesn't just work that way.

Even then , let's say I agree to your point. List 3 realistic markets for MK1A in 2025.

For the roles we want MK2 to do , single engine triumps.

The only talk about ORCA is from Twitter.

If we can make a Twin Engined MK 2 with at least 80 percent capabilities of Rafale F 4 by the Year 2030 , it will be
A Huge achievement
 

Ankit Kumar

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Nov 30, 2017
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If we can make a Twin Engined MK 2 with at least 80 percent capabilities of Rafale F 4 by the Year 2030 , it will be
A Huge achievement
Is there a requirement as such from IAF ? NO.

What is the requirement? MK1A and AMCA , and if still some gas is left in development agencies, MK2 for replacing DARIN 3, UPGs and Is from 2035.
 

_Anonymous_

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Dec 4, 2017
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What is the requirement? MK1A and AMCA , and if still some gas is left in development agencies, MK2 for replacing DARIN 3, UPGs and Is from 2035.

Isn't it Mk1a, Mk2/MWF , AMCA & TEDBF for the IN? With Mk1a undergoing development trials, the focus ought to shift to MWF & AMCA - Mk1 now followed by TEDBF & AMCA - Mk2 later. It's a tall order but barring the AMCA ( not sure if it'd live up to all what we've been promised) , I think the others are certainly doable.
 
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STEPHEN COHEN

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Isn't it Mk1a, Mk2/MWF , AMCA & TEDBF for the IN? With Mk1a undergoing development trials, the focus ought to shift to MWF & AMCA - Mk1 now followed by TEDBF & AMCA - Mk2 later. It's a tall order but barring the AMCA ( not sure if it'd live up to all what we've been promised) , I think the others are certainly doable.

The Mk2 should be Renamed AMCA
OR Both the Projects should be merged

We will need More Twin Engined Fighters for continuos CAPs

That is why we are buying More MiG 29s , because they have a good loiter time

In a Few years China will start Aggressive Sorties from North East Border ie from Myanmar border

And that will effectively mean a 3 front situation

That is because they know the limitations of taking off from Tibet and Xinjiang

The Conflict with China has just begun
 

Ankit Kumar

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Isn't it Mk1a, Mk2/MWF , AMCA & TEDBF for the IN? With Mk1a undergoing development trials, the focus ought to shift to MWF & AMCA - Mk1 now followed by TEDBF & AMCA - Mk2 later. It's a tall order but barring the AMCA ( not sure if it'd live up to all what we've been promised) , I think the others are certainly doable.
The airforce projects are certainly doable.

For the TEDBF , I have my reservations. Let's see if IN first succeeds in convincing the MoD and MoF for 3rd AC before 2030.
 

_Anonymous_

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For the TEDBF , I have my reservations. Let's see if IN first succeeds in convincing the MoD and MoF for 3rd AC before 2030.
Frankly, I don't think the TEDBF is linked to the 3rd AC. I also don't quite think AMCA ( Mk1 or Mk2) would deliver all what it's promised.
 
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Ankit Kumar

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Frankly, I don't think the TEDBF is linked to the 3rd AC. I also don't quite think AMCA ( Mk1 or Mk2) would deliver all what it's promised.
When we bought the S400 we limited our Next Generation Stealth Fighter Options. If you see where the F16s are being offered or sold , are states where offering F35 is either economically or politically not possible. Otherwise LM , wherever it is competing in a fighter jet competition, the offer is F35. And with S400 we have closed that door for us. Our only options are a derivative of Su57 or AMCA. That's why I believe that AMCA will happen. It might not be enough to replace Flankers, but it is only option we have.

On TEDBF, it's directly linked with if IN convinces the parties for 3rd AC. Because for the interim I see IN making do with the 40+ Mig29K for Vicky and Vikrant. And it's not like the capital investment in Mig29K is small, so if anyone says that IN will give up them before 30+ years , it's not worth believing. Only way TEDBF can be realised is if IN has 3rd AC approved.
 

Arpit

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Nov 30, 2017
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When we bought the S400 we limited our Next Generation Stealth Fighter Options. If you see where the F16s are being offered or sold , are states where offering F35 is either economically or politically not possible. Otherwise LM , wherever it is competing in a fighter jet competition, the offer is F35. And with S400 we have closed that door for us. Our only options are a derivative of Su57 or AMCA. That's why I believe that AMCA will happen. It might not be enough to replace Flankers, but it is only option we have.

On TEDBF, it's directly linked with if IN convinces the parties for 3rd AC. Because for the interim I see IN making do with the 40+ Mig29K for Vicky and Vikrant. And it's not like the capital investment in Mig29K is small, so if anyone says that IN will give up them before 30+ years , it's not worth believing. Only way TEDBF can be realised is if IN has 3rd AC approved.
We wont replace SUs with AMCA. After Super sukhoi upgrade, it more become like multi role. While AMCA take charge of air superiority, similarly like F 15EX. And I dont think we need F 35, neither US offer that to us, they very well knows we dont sign certain contracts which is required for F 35 sale.

On TEDBF, all the people from Navy after 2 whiskey says this, MiG 29K is shit, and it is impossible for them to make 2 carriers operationalized as Carrier battle group. For operationalizing that they need aircraft like Rafale M or TEDBF.

So we shouldn't even dream about 3rd AC right now, we need to operationalize what we have right now.

And most likely shit project like P 75I eaten up most of there budget, so they now dropped the plan of STOBAR Rafale, and only hope is TEDBF.
 
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