Indian AESA Radar Developments

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
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We are going to see a Heavy increase in
Army and Airforce Budget because of
Tensions with China

So Navy' s budget will have to be sacrificed

Forget the 3 rd AC
 

Nikhil

nik141993
Dec 1, 2017
477
269
India
Uttam is a good AESA. High density quad packed notch radiators offering higher bandwidth , impressive range ( 150 km for 2m^2 target with peak Power between 7.6 kw and 10kw ). SAR resolution is not that great, compared to western one though. They need to work on Tapered slot antenna aka vivaldi flared notch antenna like in RBE 2 AESA....LRDE , DARE has already built Vivaldi TSA for RWR & EW application.....they can surely build one for the main radar.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
12,651
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Mumbai
When we bought the S400 we limited our Next Generation Stealth Fighter Options. If you see where the F16s are being offered or sold , are states where offering F35 is either economically or politically not possible. Otherwise LM , wherever it is competing in a fighter jet competition, the offer is F35. And with S400 we have closed that door for us. Our only options are a derivative of Su57 or AMCA. That's why I believe that AMCA will happen. It might not be enough to replace Flankers, but it is only option we have.
In any case, I think as a policy the top brass in the IAF & MoD have decided not to go in for critical offensive platforms to the US - viz Fighter Aircrafts , which is why not just F-35 but what follows it too won't be considered.

The US would be considered for supporting platforms viz transport, AEW, MALE / HALE Drones for IST & offensive capabilities, Naval & Air Force Helicopters, etc. For that matter, I doubt we'd go to the US for a tank too. As far as the carrier based version of the F-35 goes, I'm not too sure. There seems to be a dearth of a good 5th generation platform for naval aviation as of today. So, the IN could probably opt for the F-35B for sheer lack of choice in the matter. But that's a decision which would be made post 2025 not today.

You misunderstood. I never claimed the AMCA won't happen. I have misgivings on its potency & whether it will live up to whatever is being promised to us by ADA. In any case one won't see the definitive version of the AMCA before 2035-40 timeline which in turn means whatever requirement we have for a 5th Gen platform will have to be met by the Russians. I believe all parties involved viz the GoI, MoD, ADA / DRDO & the IAF are on one page on this issue.

On TEDBF, it's directly linked with if IN convinces the parties for 3rd AC. Because for the interim I see IN making do with the 40+ Mig29K for Vicky and Vikrant. And it's not like the capital investment in Mig29K is small, so if anyone says that IN will give up them before 30+ years , it's not worth believing. Only way TEDBF can be realised is if IN has 3rd AC approved.
The TEDBF won't arrive before 2030-35 which is approximately around 30 years after the first MiG -29K made it's debut for the IN. By this time we'd definitely have the 3rd AC under construction - the decision for which I believe we'd take after 2025 in which case, we certainly won't be intending 4th Gen or 4.5 Gen Aircrafts to fly off it or at least be the central piece around which we build our Air power for the 3rd AC which in turn means we'd probably go in for a combination of whatever 5th Gen Carrier based FA is available with the TEDBF . What that's going to be isn't clear as of today.

As far as the MiG -29K goes, let's just say it's been a disappointment & leave it at that. It won't be missed unless whatever replaces it is as bad or worse.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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I believe that we will simply cancel
Single Engine MK2 and tell HAL and DRDO to make a twin engined MK2

Do you think that after MK 1 and MK 1A delays , IAF will be interested in a Single
Engined Plane
If SE Mk2 is cancelled, then we will buy Gripen E/F-21, not TE Mk2.

Single engine aircraft in the medium weight category is required. As long as we share soft borders with our enemies, we will need single engine aircraft. Mk1A is simply a stopgap measure until Mk2 becomes available, or else IAF wouldn't have gone for Mk1A.

What is all the talk about ORCA , TEDBF
TEDBF is IN's requirement. HAL is making ORCA as a replacement for MRFA tender, since HAL knows they won't win MRFA.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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When we bought the S400 we limited our Next Generation Stealth Fighter Options. If you see where the F16s are being offered or sold , are states where offering F35 is either economically or politically not possible. Otherwise LM , wherever it is competing in a fighter jet competition, the offer is F35. And with S400 we have closed that door for us. Our only options are a derivative of Su57 or AMCA. That's why I believe that AMCA will happen. It might not be enough to replace Flankers, but it is only option we have.
LM can't offer F-35 for MRFA since the tender is only for 4th gen designs.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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We are going to see a Heavy increase in
Army and Airforce Budget because of
Tensions with China

So Navy' s budget will have to be sacrificed

Forget the 3 rd AC
It's the opposite. In a major confrontation with China, the navy is going to be the more important service. Or else the Chinese will bomb our peninsula from the sea, with the help of 2 or 3 CBGs after 2030. If we are to prevent that from happening, then we need to spend more money on the navy now.

And of course, we have to spend on the air force and army as well.
( 150 km for 2m^2 target
That's only for the prototype. It's not enough for a production radar.
 

Nikhil

nik141993
Dec 1, 2017
477
269
India
That's only for the prototype. It's not enough for a production radar.
I don't think production radar range would be any different. if you notice the previous version had 90km range for 2m^2 target....There is a limit to amount of power you can squeeze out of that single engine. What they need to do is go for vivaldi antenna, since they already have build one for electronic warfare system along with GaN replacing GaAs module completely.
 
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randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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I don't think production radar range would be any different. if you notice the previous version had 90km range for 2m^2 target....There is a limit to amount of power you can squeeze out of that single engine. What they need to do is go for vivaldi antenna, since they already have build one for electronic warfare system along with GaN replacing GaAs module completely.
Production version will have 50% more T/R modules.
 
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Nikhil

nik141993
Dec 1, 2017
477
269
India
hey how TSA based aesa radar is different than GAN based radar?
GaN is a wide bandgap semiconductor material while TSA is broadband antenna suitable for Ultra wideband signals.
GaN based radar is a radar in which material being used is gallium nitride....it doesn't matter what type of antenna you use... whether you use patch , slot , notch radiator etc.
Gallium nitride has certain property which make it better material for next generation radar. all current AESA use GaAs ( gallium arsenide ). F 35 is probably using GaN based RF transmitter module in my opinion though.
 

Hydra

Well-Known member
May 19, 2020
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It's the opposite. In a major confrontation with China, the navy is going to be the more important service. Or else the Chinese will bomb our peninsula from the sea, with the help of 2 or 3 CBGs after 2030. If we are to prevent that from happening, then we need to spend more money on the navy now.

And of course, we have to spend on the air force and army as well.


That's only for the prototype. It's not enough for a production radar.
Totally agreed on IN part.
And.range for uttam, ie 150 km against 2m2 target is morethan enough against all sort of gen4+ fighters.
 

JustCurious

Member
Aug 2, 2020
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It's the opposite. In a major confrontation with China, the navy is going to be the more important service. Or else the Chinese will bomb our peninsula from the sea, with the help of 2 or 3 CBGs after 2030.
With what ?

The naval war is supposed to be fought in SCS, right ?
Else, the worth is QUAD for ?
LM can't offer F-35 for MRFA since the tender is only for 4th gen designs.
4th Gen ? Is it mentioned in black & white in EoI / RFI / RFP ?
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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With what ?

The naval war is supposed to be fought in SCS, right ?
Else, the worth is QUAD for ?
I was referring to if we fight alone. And if we don't modernise the navy, then we are screwed.

QUAD won't fight for us if we are too weak.

4th Gen ? Is it mentioned in black & white in EoI / RFI / RFP ?
I don't know where it's mentioned specifically, but the contest is only for 4th gen airframe designs. The EoI to the OEM should mention it once released. Anyway, no next gen designs responded to the RFI.

Since it's under SPM, the RFP will go only to Indian companies. So it's pointless by then.