Either way, damage seems precise and pretty extensive as higher resolution images emerge.
View attachment 4849
So now tree shadows count as "precise and extensive" damage?
I am waiting for GoI or someone in media to make that expense. I have a quote of about $2000-3000 from two satellite constellations: WorldView 02 and Pleiades : both having better resolution than one used by Planet Labs. It is 27th Feb one to boot.
Don't you find it interesting that even the funded nationalist TV channels (e.g. Republic), which earn loads probably, can't seem to spend a teeny tiny amount on the said satellite imagery to prove their point? Why are they sticking to the PlanetLabs imagery and trying to find holes in it? What happened to the famed ISRO imagery satellites, why can't they seem to be utilized here?
I have a second thought. It might have happened that Pakistan army might have killed and buried any survivors with dead inside the buildings only. Saves the siren for ambulance and keeps things hidden you know..
And I thought only my countrymen were unique (reference: Israeli pilot). Seems like we do share more than just the color of our skins.
Those were apparently IEDs tested by JeM trainees. Spice does not create the kind of damage shown by those craters.
Interesting theory. So apparently JeM trainees timed their IED-blasts perfectly well with the IAF strikes? Because an old man sustained light injuries because of the window shards the blasts generated outside the target site.
Where did Rafael say that SPICE-2000 does not cause that kind of damage? I have seen extensive footage from Rafael of SPICE guided munitions in use which depict otherwise. Besides, we have evidence of SPICE-2000 wing(let)s debris in the craters.
It was all part of the same engagement. The 'hot pursuit' as it is called was simply because the Mig-21 continued giving chase.
If you say so.
@Falcon had already addressed that. There are no tell tale signs of it being shot down.
Alright, didn't know that a punched hole in the tail is not a tell tale sign. I wonder what else could have caused it then. Explanations are welcome.
At the time of the attack, the entire region was covered by clouds, so no optical satellite imagery exists. Anything that claims to be one is plain wrong. This has already been discussed on the forum, brought to our attention by
@Shajida Khan.
I don't think anyone (except the fanboys) expects/expected video feed from a satellite of the strike. All people asked for were simple before/after images. I read reports that IAF had SAR imagery of the area. ISRO also has SAR satellite(s) in the orbit. So kindly don't say that imagery doesn't exists.
And, as explained by the IAF already, all the Spice 2000 does is make a hole on the roof and then explode inside the building, but there won't be visible damage to the structure from the outside with the exception of a hole on the roof. It was followed by with Pokhran imagery of targets destroyed by Spice.
IAF didn't explain ANYTHING. They didn't even claim employment of SPICE kits. It has just been the media with their sources, however it was verified because of the debris found in the crater(s).
I believe this is the image in question for the "hole" theory:
If you believe that this "Classified Google Earth Image" (whatever that means) represents that a ~5x5m target was DESTROYED by a 2000lbs LIVE munition equipped with a SPICE-2000 SOW kit...then I'm afraid I have nothing more to say, except refer you to youtube for blast videos of Mk 84 or even BLU-109 bombs. Until then, maybe this classified stuff will help you feel more at ease.
Now considering the extensive cloud cover and minimal damage, logic says the PA managed to fix those holes relatively quickly and satellites were unable to confirm that.
Logic has been quite unusually in favor of Pakistan lately, hasn't it? I wonder which logic would explain a ~30x30m structure hit with 4x SPICE-2000 SOWs (with a combined 8000lbs of total ordinance, of which 2000-4000lbs was explosive, depending on if it was general-purpose or penetrating)...and still remaining intact, with no signs of visible damage, besides some "holes" a retd. Col. found.
The real clincher is the fact that PA has still not allowed media to access a mere madrassa. Normally, if there was no damage, the media would have been allowed right in on day 1 of the strikes to prove that no damage was done. Even photographs of undamaged structures would have been released by ISPR. None exist.
Let me guess. PA officially denies the very existence of JeM, yet it will allow foreign media inside a JeM run Madrassa...because proving India wrong is more important than saving its own face, right?
Consider this: Nothing we try to prove or disprove on the internet changes the things that have happened on the ground. Even if the strike failed, India has shown willingness to attack another N-power on its soil without any hesitation, which means this can be repeated time and time again and hence has set a precedent. Even if an F-16 was not shot down or PAF hasn't lost a pilot, India has demonstrated the capability to prevent PAF action on Indian soil, whereas the Indian strike proved India can strike Pakistan at will even when PAF was on high alert. So this is the worst case for India.
Now let's consider the worst case for Pakistan. PAF failed at stopping the IAF's attack even after being on high alert for 12 days. The strikes were highly successful and eliminated 200-300 terrorists. A reactionary attack by PAF was thwarted and an F-16 and one of its pilots was lost, in exchange for an old aircraft and the return of a hale and hearty Indian pilot. A flurry of BVR attacks from PAF's best aircraft and none from IAF with no tangible losses on the Indian side has established a massive mismatch in capability between the two forces. And if you consider proof of all this happened is available, for example, the release of radar imagery of the strikes, and radar analysis of the air combat from AWACS, like the one the Russians released after the IL-20 incident, one can imagine what would happen to the reputation of the Pak military domestically and internationally after having constantly lied every day.
There is such a huge mismatch between India's worst case and Pakistan's worst case. The PR advantage is currently on Pakistan's side. But the actual ground situation is in India's favour no matter how you look at it.
As I said, I'm not here to measure stuff. India indeed demonstrated its will to cross its self-imposed red lines. Pakistan also demonstrated its will to not sit back, even if there were no damages. As far as I'm concerned, both countries underestimated each others' responses.
@the_deterrent
@safriz
Not sure if you guys are trolling - but I want to really believe that you are here for a rational debate. In that case, I request you both - we can get on a skype/zoom session on video and discuss the Indian and Pakistan View. I can organize the session and we can discuss the topic for 30-45 min.
@randomradio
@Falcon
I volunteer to be on the debate and we can really discuss this rationally
I humbly excuse from taking part in such a debate, for personal reasons. I believe that this platform is more than enough for the intended purpose. Thank you.