India - France relations.

[D68]

Do you think France is on Mars? It is a part of EU.

WTO panel rules against India in IT tariffs dispute with EU, others

A World Trade Organization panel said on Monday that India had violated global trading rules in a dispute with the European Union, Japan and Taiwan over import duties on IT products.

www.thehindubusinessline.com

WTO panel rules against India in IT tariffs dispute with EU, others | India News - Times of India

India News: GENEVA: A World Trade Organization panel said on Monday that India had violated global trading rules in a dispute with the European Union, Japan and T.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

You keep up the charade of globalised/interconnected world when there are only 2 trading superpowers - US and China. One of these countries is encroaching on our borders and is ideologically motivated be the historic middle kingdom & to make us subservient to them. Now you can continue to keep this charade of leverage and "eggs in multiple baskets" but India's only option is to trade extensively with the other superpower before the window of opportunity closes.

My ideas are driven by realism. When India's supreme leader says - "...na koi ghusa hai, na koi ghuse tha....." despite all that has happened, then you can safely assume ki upar se leke niche tak sabki phati hui hai. No video of Galwan released from our side, why? Why is 56inch so afraid to piss off China. Because these guys live in real world and know that actions have consequences. The supremacy of their forces and economy are real.

You can continue to live in 2016, the world has moved on. It is 2023 here.

Chinese solar panels have flooded the market and they are econimcally cheaper and technologically more advanced. So, much so that Indian policymakers are planning to fulfill their green energy quotas by massive imports of chinese solar panels.

Historic dip in Chinese solar module prices set to boost India's solar capacity addition - ET EnergyWorld

What has caused the latest record drop in the prices of Chinese solar modules and what will be the implications for India in terms of its capacity creation, competitiveness of local manufacturers and solar import bill? ETEnergyworld takes a look.

energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com

Chinese hand? Solar imports surge from FTA nations - Times of India

India Business News: NEW DELHI: A surge in duty-free solar imports from southeast Asian countries that have free trade agreement with India, have raised suspicion of China.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

The solution is to have more advanced tech investments from american firms or you can continue to have ever widening trade deficit with China.

>Imagine the Americans had more leverage over India, over a big defence export for example? Our negotiating power would be diminshed.
You can continue to imagine hypotheticals based on 7 year old minor incidents meanwhile India-China trade deficit has widened to $77billion . This is almost equal to our defence budget.

Indian Nationalists will keep justifying retarded non-alignment to ward off imaginary American threat. Increasing engagement with americans(which GoI is already doing) is equal to becoming their slave. There are no in-betweens.

Meanwhile in real world, record number of Indians are giving up Indian citizenship to live in US or their allied countries.

Please enlighten me as to when this "window of opportunity" will close since you seem to be able to predict the future. France is in the EU but we deal with them bilaterally in defence. The EU is a different beast entirely when it comes to trade. Instead of labelling people who don't agree with you nationalists, you should do some critical thinking. No one in their right mind would hitch their future to one single power, whether it's the US, China, France etc. You seem like a guy disheartened and butthurt that India isn't where China is today. Yes, Indian economy should be doing a lot better and growing at double digits but I don't see how that translates to sucking US pee pee dry. We are in a position now to capitalise on corporate supply chain diversification and ensure our masses prosper and build up a robust industrial base. This means trading with China as well. You have a problem of seeing things as an absolute. The world is not binary.

>They were very quick to withdraw GSP as well. They use their currency manipulator list for benefits. They constantly threaten India using religious freedom, slavery, human rights violations etc.
Yes, keep complaining on such minor issues like jealous ex-girlfriends while ignoring the actual trade data.

International Trade

www.census.gov

Trade deficit trends bw India & US(from US pov) :
2020: -$24Billion
2021: -$33Billion
2022: -$38Billion

The american attacks on China are far more vicious. But at the end of the day China has $382 Billion trade surplus with US. Thats what we can achieve. But indian nationalists would rather suck the french.
US administration has been very very accommodating of Indian Govt. But indian nationalists would love to just ignore that so they can own the US while being piss poor. This thinking is mystery to me.

>While India is trying to reduce strategic dependency on the US
Wow, what weird way to reduce strategic dependency-
All 83 tejas mk1a will run on american F404 engines. All future jets(tejas mk2, TEDBF, AMCA mk1) will run on american F414 engines. Almost all future frigates/destroyers/Aircraft Carriers will run on US General Electric LM2500 gas turbine engines. What a weird way to reduce strategic dependency? wow, maybe randomradio can tell us something we don't know.

>our man here practically wants us to become their slaves instead.
yes, indian nationalists and their worldviews. Increasing engagement with US means becoming their slaves, there are no in-betweens(which by the way is already happening due to China's pressure). I wonder why so many Indians willingly leave India to live in oppressive US?
If only chinese thought of US as you think, maybe they wouldn't have become the industrial power they are today. Its India's bad luck that we have such far-sighted thinkers in our country.

US govt. is accomodating as they want a strong ally in the region against China. Fairly recent development in the scheme of things. Not enough trust built up between to two countries to consider them a sole ally. This is for countries like SK, Japan and Taiwan. And our share of global trade is paltry compared to the others. We will first have to build our own supply chain and increase trade with South Asian neighbours, China and SEA nations.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

Please enlighten me as to when this "window of opportunity" will close since you seem to be able to predict the future. France is in the EU but we deal with them bilaterally in defence. The EU is a different beast entirely when it comes to trade. Instead of labelling people who don't agree with you nationalists, you should do some critical thinking. No one in their right mind would hitch their future to one single power, whether it's the US, China, France etc. You seem like a guy disheartened and butthurt that India isn't where China is today. Yes, Indian economy should be doing a lot better and growing at double digits but I don't see how that translates to sucking US pee pee dry. We are in a position now to capitalise on corporate supply chain diversification and ensure our masses prosper and build up a robust industrial base. This means trading with China as well. You have a problem of seeing things as an absolute. The world is not binary.

>"window of opportunity"
This window of opportunity will last till the time chinese companies are still behind american ones. BYD, Huawei, etc are their national champions that are competing with the best america has to offer. CPC is pumping enormous amount of money into its R&D, unprecedented in any country seen before in such quick time. They are climbing the value chains astonishingly fast.

Leading countries by gross research and development (R&D) expenditure worldwide in 2022​

1$ fetches a lot more value in China than it does in America. So, in some ways their supremacy is already set in stone. No one will want to piss them off due to trade relations.

India-China conflict will definitely happen and the more we delay in accelerating our own industrialisation the more we are axing our own feets.
In this little window we have, we should invite as many companies as we can to invest in india. Cause if its too late, then we would be begging chinese conglomerates mostly and they will always follow CPC diktats rather than profit margins. Indian PM will be touching Chinese president's feet then.

>France is in the EU but we deal with them bilaterally in defence. The EU is a different beast entirely when it comes to trade
Yes, EU is such a beast that pretty much all major EU economies want to defy US in maintaining their China trade links due to trade volumes. If they ignore India-China clashes today, 10 years in the future, they won't even acknowledge India-China boundary issues just to keep china happy.
You asked me to give 1 example of India-France trade dispute, I just presented to you a few months old case. You were so confidently incorrect.

>No one in their right mind would hitch their future to one single power
Everyone is hitching their future to 1 superpower, its either US or China. Everyone's value in this world is decided by the the value and importance of products they produce. China's supremacy is already forcing your old allies like Russia to toe to the Chinese versions of events.

No one will be left to help India in our neighborhood when the next war with china happens.

>critical thinking
bruh....all my arguments have plenty of data to back them up. I can atleast respect Randomradio to argue with data, all you have done is just to say 'no' with almost no data.


>You seem like a guy disheartened and butthurt that India isn't where China is today.
Sure bruh, use any word you like. But atleast I can see the difference in bayanbazi & real actions. When my 56inch PM says - "...na koi ghusa hai, na koi ghusa tha...". When my Foreign Minister says ".......S. Jaishankar said that India cannot pick a fight with China because the latter has a bigger economy.......

The Wire: The Wire News India, Latest News,News from India, Politics, External Affairs, Science, Economics, Gender and Culture

thewire.in

I realise there is a lot of rhetoric and misconceptions around the power differentials bw India & China. I mean look at the cope in this forum. China can't do this...China can't do that.....blah blah blah. Its ok to be in delusion but don't get cranky when other don't share that same "ostrich's head in the sand" attitude. Same delusion is with rafale.

>Yes, Indian economy should be doing a lot better and growing at double digits but I don't see how that translates to sucking US pee pee dry
Again with the same delusion. I just think indian nationalists have a lot of hurt ego that US chose Pakistan over India. This insecurity is the reason behind the almost 'conspiracy nut' level of anti-americanism. Engaging with US does not mean sucking their PP. This is the 3rd time I am saying this.
Indian nationalists think in absolutes, there is no in-between.

>We are in a position now to capitalise on corporate supply chain diversification and ensure our masses prosper and build up a robust industrial base
Yeah, I explained this entire thing in my previous posts. You just didn't read any of it. So let me reiterate for one last time.
India has limited political capital. The more we spend it on France the less we would be able to extract from US. There was this news report where US Senators were complaining about how much bi-partisan support existed for India but India goes ahead and buys French Planes. These kind of things do affect the relationship. Buying Rafales again for Navy is axing our own feets. We will get much more industrial support from US. Moving anything in US Congress is a 'give and take' proposition. We are taking but not giving much.

Our silence on this cruel and blatant Russian invasion of Ukraine is further damaging ties. We are delaying our own industrialization with these steps. The fact that India cant openly criticize a smaller economy like Russia tells us what a farce our so called non-aligned policy is.

>The world is not binary.
Ironic, considering that you think increasing engagement with US is equal to sucking their PP.

>US govt. is accomodating as they want a strong ally in the region against China. Fairly recent development in the scheme of things. Not enough trust built up between to two countries to consider them a sole ally
You can keep this charade of trust when 4.4 million+ indians live in US and send back billions in remittances. Pray to god that Donald Trump doesn't come to power as he will tear up all the concessional deals that Biden has signed with India. Trump has a purely transactional mind which is why India bought so much american arms bw 2016-2020. It was to satisfy that egotistical maniac. The widening trade surplus we have with US will be wiped. Go look up the data I provided in my previous post for 2016, you will be surprised by the pattern.

>And our share of global trade is paltry compared to the others. We will first have to build our own supply chain and increase trade with South Asian neighbours, China and SEA nations.

"Our supply chains". We are so far down the value chain that we are struggling to be part of others' supply chain and my man is talking about our supply chains. Lmao. Every one of our neighbor likes to trade with China rather than us. SEA is far more industrialized than India. ASEAN is deeply connected to China that there is no competition.

China and ASEAN: Cooperating to Build Epicentrum of Growth

".............China-ASEAN bilateral trade even bucked the negative trend caused by the pandemic, jumping from US$641.5 billion in 2019 to US$975.3 billion in 2022................"

Top diplomat says China, ASEAN pushing ahead with free trade area talks

China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) are pushing ahead with talks on a third version of a free trade agreement at an ASEAN summit in the Indonesian capital of Jakarta, China's top diplomat Wang Yi said on Thursday.

www.reuters.com

India chose to stay away from RCEP.

India has already missed the bus with SEA. China is making inroads so deep that forget competition, nobody there wants to buy anything substantial from India. ASEAN's largest economy is Indonesia. Chinese investments are so huge there that China will remain Indonesia's largest partner for decades to come.
China uses this relationship to dump its products into India, one of the reason's why India's trade deficit with China keeps on rising.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

I have also noticed this "American media is so hostile to india....blah blah blah" narrative numerous times. I don't understand it. American media is very activism driven. White House does not control what news is published and what is not. White House doesn't even control their own Govt organs like USCIRF which Indians get so angry about. They are independent in their functioning. If you don't like it, just ignore them. But Indians can't even do that, hordes and hordes of Indians will comment on such irrelevant institutions on twitter and make them famous. Why? White House doesn't attach any importance to them, so why do Indians? Readership of outlets like New York Times or Washington Post is very minimal. If Americans don't read them, why do Indians? I don't understand this mentality.

And if there is so much butthurt, then why don't indian institutions start their own such mouthpieces. Attack US ,UK, everyone and anyone. Who's stopping Indians? But I don't think americans would care that much about what Times Of India says about US. Like do you think British people get upset at every little negative story that runs in the Hindu or IndianExpress. But hordes of Indians get angry when BBC writes something negative about India.

Why can't people just ignore them? These papers attack China far more viciously but do chinese people care? NO. They are focused on their economy. Indians should learn from them.

 

[randomradio]

>They were very quick to withdraw GSP as well. They use their currency manipulator list for benefits. They constantly threaten India using religious freedom, slavery, human rights violations etc.
Yes, keep complaining on such minor issues like jealous ex-girlfriends while ignoring the actual trade data.

International Trade

www.census.gov

Trade deficit trends bw India & US(from US pov) :
2020: -$24Billion
2021: -$33Billion
2022: -$38Billion

The american attacks on China are far more vicious. But at the end of the day China has $382 Billion trade surplus with US. Thats what we can achieve. But indian nationalists would rather suck the french.
US administration has been very very accommodating of Indian Govt. But indian nationalists would love to just ignore that so they can own the US while being piss poor. This thinking is mystery to me.

>While India is trying to reduce strategic dependency on the US
Wow, what weird way to reduce strategic dependency-
All 83 tejas mk1a will run on american F404 engines. All future jets(tejas mk2, TEDBF, AMCA mk1) will run on american F414 engines. Almost all future frigates/destroyers/Aircraft Carriers will run on US General Electric LM2500 gas turbine engines. What a weird way to reduce strategic dependency? wow, maybe randomradio can tell us something we don't know.

>our man here practically wants us to become their slaves instead.
yes, indian nationalists and their worldviews. Increasing engagement with US means becoming their slaves, there are no in-betweens(which by the way is already happening due to China's pressure). I wonder why so many Indians willingly leave India to live in oppressive US?
If only chinese thought of US as you think, maybe they wouldn't have become the industrial power they are today. Its India's bad luck that we have such far-sighted thinkers in our country.

When you look at trade, you look at quality of trade, not quantity. The US, given its big market, will appear big, but any access to the US market requires merit, not deepthroat techniques.

You have have gotten though life through underhanded means, so that's your experience, but playing with the top dogs needs more than whatever you have come up with in life.

India has no leverage in the US market. They control everything there. That's why even our IT industry is diversifying away from the US.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

When you look at trade, you look at quality of trade, not quantity. The US, given its big market, will appear big, but any access to the US market requires merit, not deepthroat techniques.

You have have gotten though life through underhanded means, so that's your experience, but playing with the top dogs needs more than whatever you have come up with in life.

India has no leverage in the US market. They control everything there. That's why even our IT industry is diversifying away from the US.

>quality of trade, not quantity
your goal posts will never stop shifting. I have given you so much data by now, its not even funny. India's trade surplus with US increased from $24billion to $38Billion b/w 2020 and 2022. Please do tell, what quality of indian products changed in these 2 years? This was a result of greater alignment with US interests. I like to see it. Similarly, there has been no change in investment ecosystem in the last few years but now so many semiconductor firms are ready to invest in india. Why? what quality changed? Its the geopolitics and interests, not quality.

>deepthroat techniques.
this is the 4th time I am saying this. Indian nationalists think that greater engagement with US means deepthroating them. there is no in-between.

>You have have gotten though life through underhanded means, so that's your experience
You are just blabering emotional nonsense at this point. take your meds and go to sleep now. I am going to sleep as well

>but playing with the top dogs needs more than whatever you have come up with in life.
I am not sure what top dogs you are playing with but good luck.

>India has no leverage in the US market. They control everything there. That's why even our IT industry is diversifying away from the US.
yes, thats why our trade with US is increasing the most, even leaving China behind. US is the largest buyer of Indian IT services and this trade just keeps on climbing higher and higher. How can someone be so confidently wrong?

"............The US is a significant destination for India’s software exports and a top buyer of Indian goods. About 60 per cent or an estimated $100 billion revenue of Indian IT and ITeS firms comes from the US.........."
Source:

Win-win for US-India trade

Make in India initiative is set to get a boost, thanks to both countries striking many business deals and resolving to end trade disputes during Modi’s visit

www.thehindubusinessline.com

At this point Indian nationalists are competing with Russians in delusion. If you ever go to twitter, search for what russian propaganda accounts are saying. They have gone off the deep end, making up stories about BRICS and what not. They even call India the weakest link in BRICS when Indian govt. takes any step against their narrative.

You sound just like them.

 

[D68]

>"window of opportunity"
This window of opportunity will last till the time chinese companies are still behind american ones. BYD, Huawei, etc are their national champions that are competing with the best america has to offer. CPC is pumping enormous amount of money into its R&D, unprecedented in any country seen before in such quick time. They are climbing the value chains astonishingly fast.

Leading countries by gross research and development (R&D) expenditure worldwide in 2022​

View attachment 29366
1$ fetches a lot more value in China than it does in America. So, in some ways their supremacy is already set in stone. No one will want to piss them off due to trade relations.

India-China conflict will definitely happen and the more we delay in accelerating our own industrialisation the more we are axing our own feets.
In this little window we have, we should invite as many companies as we can to invest in india. Cause if its too late, then we would be begging chinese conglomerates mostly and they will always follow CPC diktats rather than profit margins. Indian PM will be touching Chinese president's feet then.

>France is in the EU but we deal with them bilaterally in defence. The EU is a different beast entirely when it comes to trade
Yes, EU is such a beast that pretty much all major EU economies want to defy US in maintaining their China trade links due to trade volumes. If they ignore India-China clashes today, 10 years in the future, they won't even acknowledge India-China boundary issues just to keep china happy.
You asked me to give 1 example of India-France trade dispute, I just presented to you a few months old case. You were so confidently incorrect.

>No one in their right mind would hitch their future to one single power
Everyone is hitching their future to 1 superpower, its either US or China. Everyone's value in this world is decided by the the value and importance of products they produce. China's supremacy is already forcing your old allies like Russia to toe to the Chinese versions of events.

View attachment 29368
No one will be left to help India in our neighborhood when the next war with china happens.

>critical thinking
bruh....all my arguments have plenty of data to back them up. I can atleast respect Randomradio to argue with data, all you have done is just to say 'no' with almost no data.


>You seem like a guy disheartened and butthurt that India isn't where China is today.
Sure bruh, use any word you like. But atleast I can see the difference in bayanbazi & real actions. When my 56inch PM says - "...na koi ghusa hai, na koi ghusa tha...". When my Foreign Minister says ".......S. Jaishankar said that India cannot pick a fight with China because the latter has a bigger economy.......

The Wire: The Wire News India, Latest News,News from India, Politics, External Affairs, Science, Economics, Gender and Culture

thewire.in

I realise there is a lot of rhetoric and misconceptions around the power differentials bw India & China. I mean look at the cope in this forum. China can't do this...China can't do that.....blah blah blah. Its ok to be in delusion but don't get cranky when other don't share that same "ostrich's head in the sand" attitude. Same delusion is with rafale.

>Yes, Indian economy should be doing a lot better and growing at double digits but I don't see how that translates to sucking US pee pee dry
Again with the same delusion. I just think indian nationalists have a lot of hurt ego that US chose Pakistan over India. This insecurity is the reason behind the almost 'conspiracy nut' level of anti-americanism. Engaging with US does not mean sucking their PP. This is the 3rd time I am saying this.
Indian nationalists think in absolutes, there is no in-between.

>We are in a position now to capitalise on corporate supply chain diversification and ensure our masses prosper and build up a robust industrial base
Yeah, I explained this entire thing in my previous posts. You just didn't read any of it. So let me reiterate for one last time.
India has limited political capital. The more we spend it on France the less we would be able to extract from US. There was this news report where US Senators were complaining about how much bi-partisan support existed for India but India goes ahead and buys French Planes. These kind of things do affect the relationship. Buying Rafales again for Navy is axing our own feets. We will get much more industrial support from US. Moving anything in US Congress is a 'give and take' proposition. We are taking but not giving much.

Our silence on this cruel and blatant Russian invasion of Ukraine is further damaging ties. We are delaying our own industrialization with these steps. The fact that India cant openly criticize a smaller economy like Russia tells us what a farce our so called non-aligned policy is.

>The world is not binary.
Ironic, considering that you think increasing engagement with US is equal to sucking their PP.

>US govt. is accomodating as they want a strong ally in the region against China. Fairly recent development in the scheme of things. Not enough trust built up between to two countries to consider them a sole ally
You can keep this charade of trust when 4.4 million+ indians live in US and send back billions in remittances. Pray to god that Donald Trump doesn't come to power as he will tear up all the concessional deals that Biden has signed with India. Trump has a purely transactional mind which is why India bought so much american arms bw 2016-2020. It was to satisfy that egotistical maniac. The widening trade surplus we have with US will be wiped. Go look up the data I provided in my previous post for 2016, you will be surprised by the pattern.

>And our share of global trade is paltry compared to the others. We will first have to build our own supply chain and increase trade with South Asian neighbours, China and SEA nations.

"Our supply chains". We are so far down the value chain that we are struggling to be part of others' supply chain and my man is talking about our supply chains. Lmao. Every one of our neighbor likes to trade with China rather than us. SEA is far more industrialized than India. ASEAN is deeply connected to China that there is no competition.

China and ASEAN: Cooperating to Build Epicentrum of Growth

".............China-ASEAN bilateral trade even bucked the negative trend caused by the pandemic, jumping from US$641.5 billion in 2019 to US$975.3 billion in 2022................"

Top diplomat says China, ASEAN pushing ahead with free trade area talks

China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) are pushing ahead with talks on a third version of a free trade agreement at an ASEAN summit in the Indonesian capital of Jakarta, China's top diplomat Wang Yi said on Thursday.

www.reuters.com

India chose to stay away from RCEP.

India has already missed the bus with SEA. China is making inroads so deep that forget competition, nobody there wants to buy anything substantial from India. ASEAN's largest economy is Indonesia. Chinese investments are so huge there that China will remain Indonesia's largest partner for decades to come.
China uses this relationship to dump its products into India, one of the reason's why India's trade deficit with China keeps on rising.

Trade dispute with EU is not the same as a trade dispute between India and France. France is part of 27 nations that consist of the EU. France's power in this organisation is diluted. You asserted that we have bilateral trade disputes with France, not a 27 member state organisation which France is part of, which is why I ignored this entirely. You are just showing us how disingenious you are with data, another example of you extrapolating nonsense to suit your narrative; Balance of trade for you equals strategic alliance? Are you for real? No other factors involved in trade apart from strategic alliance obviously.

 

[D68]

>And our share of global trade is paltry compared to the others. We will first have to build our own supply chain and increase trade with South Asian neighbours, China and SEA nations.

"Our supply chains". We are so far down the value chain that we are struggling to be part of others' supply chain and my man is talking about our supply chains. Lmao. Every one of our neighbor likes to trade with China rather than us. SEA is far more industrialized than India. ASEAN is deeply connected to China that there is no competition.

Yes, a supply chain. Are you saying we don't have one or that we shouldn't build one? The nature of a supply chain is integration but we are not well connected to China by land in order to integrate well into their gargantuan mfg supply chain. What exactly do you think the point of attracting companies like Foxconn or Apple is? Addressing connectivity through freight corridors? Initiatives like 'Make in India' or 'Gati Shakti'? Pray tell, what is the point of all this if not an effort to build a supply chain of our own? You can argue about it's efficacy all day but it doesn't change the fact that India is currently in the process of expanding it's industrial base.

 

[randomradio]

>quality of trade, not quantity
your goal posts will never stop shifting. I have given you so much data by now, its not even funny. India's trade surplus with US increased from $24billion to $38Billion b/w 2020 and 2022. Please do tell, what quality of indian products changed in these 2 years? This was a result of greater alignment with US interests. I like to see it. Similarly, there has been no change in investment ecosystem in the last few years but now so many semiconductor firms are ready to invest in india. Why? what quality changed? Its the geopolitics and interests, not quality.

>deepthroat techniques.
this is the 4th time I am saying this. Indian nationalists think that greater engagement with US means deepthroating them. there is no in-between.

>You have have gotten though life through underhanded means, so that's your experience
You are just blabering emotional nonsense at this point. take your meds and go to sleep now. I am going to sleep as well

>but playing with the top dogs needs more than whatever you have come up with in life.
I am not sure what top dogs you are playing with but good luck.

>India has no leverage in the US market. They control everything there. That's why even our IT industry is diversifying away from the US.
yes, thats why our trade with US is increasing the most, even leaving China behind. US is the largest buyer of Indian IT services and this trade just keeps on climbing higher and higher. How can someone be so confidently wrong?

"............The US is a significant destination for India’s software exports and a top buyer of Indian goods. About 60 per cent or an estimated $100 billion revenue of Indian IT and ITeS firms comes from the US.........."
Source:

Win-win for US-India trade

Make in India initiative is set to get a boost, thanks to both countries striking many business deals and resolving to end trade disputes during Modi’s visit

www.thehindubusinessline.com

At this point Indian nationalists are competing with Russians in delusion. If you ever go to twitter, search for what russian propaganda accounts are saying. They have gone off the deep end, making up stories about BRICS and what not. They even call India the weakest link in BRICS when Indian govt. takes any step against their narrative.

You sound just like them.

You are the only one sounding irrational here. You are betting on a promise of a reward the US cannot give versus what we already have, and then you are blind to what the Indian govt and industry are also trying to do, ie, reducing the influence of the US in India. And then you prefer the words of individuals and twitter personalities over your own forces and leaders.

Forget the fact that the F-35 isn't even ready, even if it does become ready, it's not gonna meet IAF requirements simply due to the fact that it's not an ASF design. And AMCA has been designed to surpass it anyway.

 

[Saaho]

You must be trolling. How can someone be so wrong/ignorant of history? China was COMPLETELY aligned with US after the Sino-Soviet Split.

WRONG!
Soviet Sino split started out in 1960 when USSR went back on their promise of training Chinese on how to make an atomic bomb and sided with India in 1962 war.

China US relations remained frozen all the way from late 40s till 69. Only in 69 bare minimum trade restriction were lifted. No more progress was made till the end of Vietnam war in 1975. China was providing weapons to north vietnam during! LOL!. And you call China playing lackey to USA!! LOL!

Only in 1978-79 when the relationship of China with USA really improved. After the death of Mao! Wanna know the kicker? Till 1st Jan 1979, USA did not even consider China as China but considered Taiwan as China diplomatically. And you are saying China was playing lackey to USA during this period!

Only between 1979 till 1989 did China had any kind of pro-US stance. That also fell apart after Tianamen Square massacre. Only during 10 years between 1979 and 1989 US and China had military co-operation mainly because of Sino-Vietnam war and USSR supporting Vietnam and USA supporting China. Yes, only those 10 years.

Afterwards, the only thing that drove China USA relationship was commerce! And nothing else! Whitehouse got lobbied by commercial interests to allow imports from China. Clinton was the sell out. After 1989, there has not been any kind of military relationship between China and USA.

If anyone needs to know history, its you!

So much so that China even entertained the idea of invading India in 1971 on US's insistence. It was the fear of Soviet Union that kept them in check. China was pretty much US's lackey after their relations with USSR broke down. They sucked off investment from US and did their bidding in Asia.

LOL! Kissinger asked Chinese to increase activity against India in 1971, they did NOTHING! Zero Ziltch!
Why? Because they did not want to confront Russia!

Yes, unlike your suggestions, Nations look out for their interests.

The more we position ourself with them, the more capital will come our way, despite not having favourable investment climate. Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam have far better investment ecosystem but apple, Micron and other american companies are coming to india. Why? Due to market size? hell no.

Wrong! AGAIN WRONG!

Do you know what made investment in China so lucrative? It was Deng Xiaopeng's policies of economic libralization.

You seem to have this weird idea that in USA Government runs the businesses. Its the other way round. Businesses pressure governments. Why do you think that even after multiple incidences of hostility with China and knowing them to be a clear and present danger, trade with China has always flourished? "Its economics stupid!" as Clinton used to say.

Make your country business friendly and American corporates will come running! Why do you think Modi has been popular with corporate America? He is seen as a right wing business friendly leader who has power. Something which looks like republicans. Get labour laws sorted out. Make land acquisition easier. Make contracts easily enforcable. Created dedicated courts for businesses to fast track their disputes. Build infra. You will see massive businesses running to India.

Businesses do not flock to China because Whitehouse has asked them to do so. They go their because they have to convince very few people to get anything done in China. Convince the government at centre and you are done! Try that in India. Tata is still salty about its plans to open nano factories in Waste Bengal.

US can get by fine without involving India in their anti-China plans. They live 15,000km away. All their closest allies lie on the other side of the globe. Its India who has to live near China. India has the weaker hand here. Unless we give more concessions and drop this non-aligned charade, we will keep our mediocre growth of 5 to 6%. Instead we could be growing at 8 or 9% if we align with them, thats the difference. You are ready to accept mediocre growth while being content with the retarded notion of non-alignment. I am not. You give example of Pakistan, a very retarded country but not of Taiwan, South Korea or Japan, all of them have 32k to 35k USD GDP per capita. Pakistan failed to take advantage of its US support to grow its economy. Its retarded elites were happy to fill their own pockets. Now that they have fallen out with US, they are bitter. This bitterness is compounded when they see american companies making a bee-line to invest in india. Something they never cared about. Do you think if they were given another chance with US, they wouldn't take it? They absolutely would. Because they understand that US was the only reason why their economy was better than India for most of post-independence history.

Again, you have the very wrong idea. You can not become developed because you decide to follow US like a lackey. No, that shit does not happen. Pakistan being the prime example. You become developed by fixing your infra, developing skills in your people and making your country easy to do business in. Thats wht made China, China today. Thats what made Japan so successful before and after world war 2. Same is true with rest of the asian tigers. China became successful inspite of being opposed to USA. Pakistan become a failed state inspite of being absolutely subserviant to US first and now China and reciving massive amount of developmental aid. They never developed anything to attract major businesses to invest in their country no matter what whitehouse thinks of them.

You cannot run without learning to walk. Does not matter which shoes or t-shirt you wear.

 

[Saaho]

How did China become US's biggest trade partner? I can't believe the non-sense that is coming out of your mouth. China ABSOLUTELY aligned with US after sino-soviet split. They knew they were weaker than USSR and aligned with their ideological enemy(US) to counter their ideological cousins(USSR). Bold pragmatism. And they got rewarded with american investments. So much so that China is more powerful than all former soviet states combined.

LOL!

Lets see!

1960 Sino Soviet split started.

1965-75 American entry on ground in Vietnam war, China provided weapons to North Vietnam, despite being allegedly ally of USA after Soviet Sino split?

1st Jan 1979 : US actually recognises Mainland China as China (in place of Taiwan). LOL! And we are supposed to believe that China "Aligned" with the country that did not even recognized it as a nation? LOL!

1979 - 1989 : US China co-operation in practically all spheres including military. Yes, this is the only period in which China and USA were on friendly terms.

1989 : Tianaman Square, US ends military co-operation with its "staunch" ally China. LOL! No more major US/EU weapons to be sold to China. Embargo continues till date! Compare this with Pakistan. Even after 1971's genocide with MASSIVE amount of killings and rapes, US and EU till date supply weapons to Pakistan. And China is supposedly completely aligned with USA. LOL!

1990s : Clinton era of commercial relationship with China, mostly on pressure from business interests like Walmart.

You have zero knowledge of history to make claims like "China ABSOLUTELY aligned with US after sino-soviet split.". LOL!

 

[Saaho]

"Our supply chains". We are so far down the value chain that we are struggling to be part of others' supply chain and my man is talking about our supply chains. Lmao. Every one of our neighbor likes to trade with China rather than us. SEA is far more industrialized than India. ASEAN is deeply connected to China that there is no competition.

And your solution to that is "go suck Uncle Sam's Cock"??

You can do as much fellatio to Biden but its not going to make India into China or even anywhere near them. If it was this simple, rest assured Modi and entire South Block are not beyond that.

Ask Pakistan. They are masters in alignment. Have been doing it for a very long time now.

What you need is fundamentals. Infra like Roads, electricity and ports. Skilled labour. Business friendly policies. Legal system that caters to businesses when needed without wasting 50 years. Do that and you will get all the investment, Biden or Trump not withstanding.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

La nouvelle politique française d’exportation des armements se révèle en Grèce.​

France's new arms export policy is revealed in Greece.
France's arms export policy has been shaped by several decades of success, which led it to the foot of the world export podium as early as the mid-1960s, despite the trauma of the Second World War and the German occupation.

At the time, this strategy was based on two complementary approaches. Firstly, industrial defence partnerships, which gave rise to a number of Cold War programmes such as the Sepecat Jaguar fighter-bomber, the Breguet Atlantic maritime patrol aircraft, the Milan and HOT anti-tank missiles and the Tripartite mine hunters.

All these programmes were carried out in cooperation with France's European neighbours: Germany, Italy, the UK, Belgium and the Netherlands.

French arms export policy since 1945

At the same time, Paris has enjoyed a string of successes in exporting equipment, notably to countries in the Middle East (Israel, then Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Qatar and the UAE), Europe (Belgium, Greece, Spain), South America (Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru), Africa (Morocco, Egypt, South Africa, Libya, etc.) and Asia-Pacific (Pakistan, India, Australia, Taiwan, etc.).

Arms exports have not changed politically between 1945 and 2022

France's arms export policy had hardly changed since the late 1950s, when the French defence industry achieved its first major successes on the international stage.

This division between European partners and global customers persisted until President Macron's arrival at the Élysée Palace in 2017, even though it was increasingly clear that it was no longer responding effectively to French industrial and technological opportunities.

During his first five years in office, Emmanuel Macron, and the Minister for the Armed Forces, Florence Parly, reproduced and even accentuated this model, by undertaking numerous European initiatives designed to give substance to the ambition for a Europe of Defence supported by the newly elected President.

This gave rise to the Franco-Belgian CaMo programme and exhumed the Lancaster House agreements with London. The two main aspects of this presidential initiative were the emergence of an "Airbus Naval" by bringing together Naval Group and Italy's Fincantieri in a joint venture called Naviris, and above all the launch of several major Franco-German programmes, including the now well-known SCAF and MGCS.

The failure of President Macron's European ambitions

Unfortunately for the French President, this strategy fell short on a number of occasions. For example, after the failure of Fincantieri's takeover of Chantiers de l'Atlantique, Naviris was gutted, becoming a structure limited to bilateral cooperation programmes, such as the modernisation of the Horizon class anti-aircraft destroyers.

Co-operation with Germany has also deteriorated, following Berlin's abandonment of the MAWS, CIFS and Tiger III programmes, while the SCAF and especially the MGCS regularly encounter major turbulence that threatens their very survival.

However, it was probably the emergence of increasingly obvious divergences between Paris and Berlin, whether over the acquisition of the F-35A or the launch of the European Skyshield initiative involving 15 European countries but closed to France and Italy, that led the French authorities to consider changing their export strategy.

Towards a new French partnership and arms export policy

The first signs of this change came when Parliament passed the Military Planning Act 2024-2030 in spring 2023. On that occasion, the Minister for the Armed Forces, Sébastien Lecornu, announced that the new version of the Rafale, the F5, which was much more ambitious than expected, would be developed by 2030.

Above all, this programme would be open to the "Rafale Club", i.e. countries that operate the aircraft, have a defence aeronautics industry and wish to invest in it. This was the first time that France had opened up defence industrial cooperation that represented a strategic challenge for the country to non-European countries.

A few weeks later, during Indian PM Narendra Modi's official visit to France for the 14 July celebrations, several Franco-Indian programmes were discussed, along with the future acquisition of 26 Rafale M aircraft and three additional Scorpene submarines for the Indian Navy.

The rest of this article is reserved for subscribers -

 

[Ashwin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1700834303104729144

 

[Ashwin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1700820569174769878

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

I think our President is in India today.

 

[Saaho]

I think our President is in India today.

Presidente siamo con te~
Menomale che Silvio c'è~

Oh wait, thats a different one? Ooops sorry!

 

[Amarante]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1750575571258785959

https://twitter.com/x/status/1750576777058226297

 

[screambowl]

Though India is a member of Wassenaar Arrangement , but what if US puts sanctions on India like on China in near future, will France be able to carry out independent policy with India when it comes to defense deals?

 

[Ashwin]

They reached the trade target of $15 billion 3 years before !.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

France/India​

Beijing's Guoanbu concerned about growing relations