India - France relations.

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

Hello, as I did not know you (I had never read you here although you have been registered for much longer than me),
and as I considered the videos you posted not serious at all (and therefore I posted one of the same level myself by irony),
I didn't really answer you. I apologize for this.

But since you insist and argue, then ok, i will comment seriously (with sometimes a bit of irony, ‘cause i am who i am)

vid#1 Caspian Report​

1/ About the CFA franc, rejoice! it is planned to be replaced in 2027 by an African currency: the ECO.​

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It was supposed to be done as soon as 2020, but you know: c’est l’Afrique, chef.​

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https://www.agenceecofin.com/econom...eco-se-heurte-encore-a-des-questions-de-forme:​

(…) Among the reasons cited to explain the delay in the implementation of the single currency, there are economic reasons such 1/ as the difficulty of certain countries in respecting the convergence criteria, 2/ but also the hesitation of Nigeria, the region's leading economic power and of the continent, which still needs to be convinced by its neighbors to give real momentum to the project. (…)​

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2/ in the vid’ i do appreciate: (…) 10:38: But the world is changing. Since the end of the cold war [i.e. 30 years ago, the CaspianReport document is a bit "dated". This is not fresh news], the presence of France in Africa has diminished. The growing economic competition from China, the United States and many other countries [Russia, Turkey, India…] has plunged the French market share on the continent to historically low levels. And with the coming to power of a new generation of French-speaking African leaders, African youth are increasingly looking for alternative patrons. (…)​

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GREAT! I wish African youth much pleasure with their new Chinese, Turkish, Indian or Russian “patrons”…​

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For example, since France withdrew from Mali at the request of the Malian coup authorities, and Russia "replaced" it, I wouldn’t say that the security nor the economical situation has improved in the West African region. Wassim Nasr either​

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Anyway, in the information war, I hold Caspian Report for a false nose of Turkish diplomacy and its neo-Ottoman nostalgia, or/and pan-Turkish ideology.​

vid#2 Gravel Institute.​

« a progressive US left-wing advocacy group » (wiki)​

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I didn't know about this organization. It is the same one who conceived the documentary titled "How America Funded Ukraine's Neo-Nazis". It would have been a big hit here with some people ( ), but ultimately it didn't air. And their website went down. RIP. No regrets, that was BS.​

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The doc you linked is zero. Ultimately, that of Caspian Report is more serious, whatever dated.​

vid#3 skynewsau // gorgia Meloni​

A bit of irony : can Murdoch be considered a defender of the "free and independent" press, or as a Frenchman, err sorry: i mean a colonialist of the mediasphere?​

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Anyway, I find the oratorical precautions and deny of the puppet, sorry: the journalist tasty: « no no giorgia Meloni is NOT from the far right, especially not! » (huhu)​

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That's it, yes: « (…) In 1992, Meloni joined the Youth Front, the youth wing of the Italian Social Movement (MSI), a neo-fascist political party founded in 1946 by former followers of Italian fascism. She later became the national leader of Student Action, the student movement of the National Alliance (AN), a post-fascist party that became the MSI's legal successor in 1995 and moved towards national conservatism. (…) A right-wing populist and nationalist, her political positions have been described as far-right, which she rejects (…) [wiki]​

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I understand, within a democratic European Union, this is a somewhat heavy legacy to assume. Better is to make-up.​

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I recall that during the 1930s the Italian fascists invaded and occupied Libya and Somalia. You can see what state these countries are in today.​

I did not hear Madame Meloni contrition nor repent. Probably because it's so much more populist, sorry: more easy to criticize France.​

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No, really, Gasoline, haven't you found more serious sources?

But as I said, CaspianReport is the least bad of the three: certainly 30 years late (the end of the Cold War), it nevertheless recognizes that the world is changing in Africa and that French-speaking countries are emancipating. I agree! Whether they manage with the Russians, the Turks or the Kalmyks. They can do what they want, France has paid enough.

I would add that in French public opinion, Africa - in economic terms - has long been considered a dead weight. And a scourge in terms of immigration.

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ps: against France you cast a wide net: a pro-Turkish lobbyist, the American « progressive left » channel that no longer exists, and an Italian neo-fascist. Congratulations on your smearing efforts. Having said that, of course, I am not criticizing you for having your personal opinions, let that be clear.

ps2: if you could go and discuss fail-35 or India-US relations in the dedicated threads I would appreciate it.
Thanks in advance.

Yes attack the messenger rather than message. great job. You got dissed by both a left wing and right wing source. Congratulations. You are too disgusting for both sides. Since you rate caspian report the most credible, lets talk about that.

1. Why did france subjugate the african nations by creating a financial dependency? Why couldn't these nations get access to their own reserves in the aftermath of 2008 financial crisis? They couldn't get new credit either as their reserves were in france's name. WTF? Currency printing controls? Can you imagine that today bw India-Britain. India would nuke britain if that came to happen today.

2. French treasury effectively controls the currency of those 14 nations, enriching french state, while subjugating these african nations and effectively shooting off their knee-caps so they can't grow. France is effectively a blood sucker here. Jacques chirac says that big part of france's wealth comes from these nations and without these france would be a third rate power.

3. Shirvan makes an excellent point that since these nations have no control over their own currencies, they cant devalue them. They are stuck exporting raw materials (with low value addition) to richer europens who process these good and sell it to the whole world. These nations are stuck with an avg of 1.5% annual GDP growth.

4. This environment breeds corruption, capital flight to europe & criminal activities. No chance of growth.

5. You don't like Meloni? How about Italian Luigi Di Maio. He says similar things. France impoverished Africa even after its colonial rule ended.

6. Why do French MNCs have an exclusive right to reject/accept raw resources extracted from the soil these former colonies? These countries are effectively dependent on these firms to sell commodities on international markets. Sounds like colonial rule to me. And due to this dependency, these nations can't afford to piss off France, effectively becoming their slaves. Disgusting.

This video opened my eyes. I have no hope from the french members on this website (& their indian slaves who can't help but keep deepthroating french cocks) but the silent members and non-members who don't comment much (like me) should think for themselves and watch more and more such videos. This needs to highlighted. Indians are woefully unaware of the history of africa and what goes on there today w.r.t. France.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

No one said don't do trade with USA. Did anyone say it? Did China stop doing trade with USA?
But has China EVER aligned with USA? In 80s? or in 90s? or in 2000s? or now?

You are conflating Trade and Geopolitical Alignment.

India and US are not enemies but their interest do not align.

US is interested in India as a counterbalance or at least an irritant to China. India wants to play US against China when needed -- like it did with Soviet Russia in 71. These are conflicting goals diplomatically and geopolitically.

The reality is this : You CAN do trade with USA without having a military and geopolitical alignment with it. And thats perhaps the best we can get out of USA. Otherwise, you can see what aligning to USA did to Pakistan. It dragged Pakistan in un-needed wars like one in Afghanistan.

Here is another reality : US never wanted India to develop nuclear weapons or even delivery mechanism. If India were to do another test, US will oppose. If you align with USA absolutely, you will have to surrender that. And you can see how Taiwan and Ukraine are faring by surrendering their nuclear option.

There is NO sentimentalism here. Its pure rational thinking.

Oh and BTW, 10 trillion dollar are not 50 years away. Maximum by 2040. Less than 20 years away. At that point you will become an irritant and will be percieved as a threat by USA.

You must be trolling. How can someone be so wrong/ignorant of history? China was COMPLETELY aligned with US after the Sino-Soviet Split.

Visit by Deng Xiaoping to the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So much so that China even entertained the idea of invading India in 1971 on US's insistence. It was the fear of Soviet Union that kept them in check. China was pretty much US's lackey after their relations with USSR broke down. They sucked off investment from US and did their bidding in Asia.
You just keep vomiting the same ideological non sense. india-US interests align a lot. The more we position ourself with them, the more capital will come our way, despite not having favourable investment climate. Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam have far better investment ecosystem but apple, Micron and other american companies are coming to india. Why? Due to market size? hell no. Its the pressure from white house. We have given some concessions to them and they are pressuring more and more american companies to invest in india. Without that pressure, india would not be getting the FDI it gets today.

US can get by fine without involving India in their anti-China plans. They live 15,000km away. All their closest allies lie on the other side of the globe. Its India who has to live near China. India has the weaker hand here. Unless we give more concessions and drop this non-aligned charade, we will keep our mediocre growth of 5 to 6%. Instead we could be growing at 8 or 9% if we align with them, thats the difference. You are ready to accept mediocre growth while being content with the retarded notion of non-alignment. I am not. You give example of Pakistan, a very retarded country but not of Taiwan, South Korea or Japan, all of them have 32k to 35k USD GDP per capita. Pakistan failed to take advantage of its US support to grow its economy. Its retarded elites were happy to fill their own pockets. Now that they have fallen out with US, they are bitter. This bitterness is compounded when they see american companies making a bee-line to invest in india. Something they never cared about. Do you think if they were given another chance with US, they wouldn't take it? They absolutely would. Because they understand that US was the only reason why their economy was better than India for most of post-independence history.

You keep saying you are not sentimental but keep bringing back historical enmity with US, thats exactly what sentimentalism is. Just because US was hostile to India in the past, doesn't mean it has to be that way today as well. First get rich, then think about these things. India's per capita income in 2.5k USD. Aukat dekho apni, then talk about global wars and ideologies. China was cold and pragmatic to ally with US after Sino-soviet split. They got all the investments despite having an opposite ideology. They got rich and then they let ideological issues come to the front. We have indian nationalists here, who are piss poor but want to have ideological enmity with a country that is among the richest in the world and is offering friendship. Sentimentalism.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

If you want take example of China?

China is biggest trade partner of USA but does it align with USA? NEVER! Has it ever aligned to any major world power strategically? Never! Why do you think Sino-Soviet split happen?

China has been an ally of Russia, but have you seen it aligned with Russia or USSR? No! Heck right now, China is not supplying weapons to Russia even though Russia is short of weapons. China has its own interest in mind -- preserving its trade everywhere and making Russia dependent on itself.

And you want India to align itself with USA.

Here is the real meaning of aligning with USA is :
Getting dragged into conflicts in which you have no point of joining. Eg. US - Iran conflict. Or Russia - Ukraine conflict. Or another US-Afghan war in future. You want to see Indian forces fighting in Afghanistan? Ultimately US will leave but we will have to live with consequences of that. Like Pakistan is now facing those consequences.

Does India want to make enemy out of Iran? Or Russia? Or Taliban?

How did China become US's biggest trade partner? I can't believe the non-sense that is coming out of your mouth. China ABSOLUTELY aligned with US after sino-soviet split. They knew they were weaker than USSR and aligned with their ideological enemy(US) to counter their ideological cousins(USSR). Bold pragmatism. And they got rewarded with american investments. So much so that China is more powerful than all former soviet states combined.

China's alignment with US was so extreme that -
MAO proposed sending 10 million Chinese women to the US, in talks with Kissinger in 1973. Mao said China was a "very poor country, what we have in excess is women." "They give birth to children and our children are too many."

Mao proposed 'exporting' millions of women to US

amp.theage.com.au

They were ready to sell their women to become rich cause they knew at the end of the day what matters.

China is aligned with Russia today beacuse its advanced enough to do so. Its sending all sorts of military aid like vests, boots, etc that don't violate western sanctions. Thats what they are afraid of. Losing access to western markets. Not ideological nonsense. We have blind indian nationalists here who are so sentimental that they can't see the obvious here. If Russia were to choose, they would absolutely choose China and dump India, cause China is the world's factory. Thats what runs the world, not sentimentalism.

Everyone can trade with everyone but it will be mediocre unless you have ideological alignment. Thats what I want, you are ready to accept mediocrity.

And you keep giving strawman arguments about US led wars. You won't talk about how eastern europeans and east asians that algined with US are so much more richer and peaceful today. We don't always have to be aligned with them. That can be changed in the future but for that first become rich through industrialisation.

Enemy out of taliban, Iran, Russia? Have some confidence in yourself and your country. This leap of logic is beyond me. The countries with the best living standards - South Korea, Japan, Taiwan - are these countries enemies of Iran or Taliban or Russia? (Japan has its own historic issues with Russia). Man Indian nationalists are capable of some mind bending arguments.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

All of that's irrelevant. The only things that matters are geopolitics and leverage, everything else is negotiable.

It's all about how important some things are on the gorund that can change status quo and how much leverage one holds over the other.

For example, if the US desperately needs iPhones for survival and China is the only source, then the Chinese have leverage. But if the US develops other sources for the same, then China has lost its leverage. Trade partners can change overnight. At best, a country may suffer through 1 or 2 years of inflation for most things the Chinese supply before other suppliers can build capacities and replace them. We have already seen that with Russia and Europe. So all major powers try and reduce the leverage others have over them and increase their own leverage over others.

Geopolitics is even more important, especially concerning territory, 'cause real estate is at a premium, we have only one planet. Take Taiwan for example. China today has zero access to the world's oceans. But the minute they take Taiwan, China gains access to the entire Pacific and the Arctic. This is a major existential threat to the US. So why would the US care about little bits of trade with China, barely a fraction of their economy, in comparison to 2 oceans that they currently dominate? Rather than worry about poor American kids paying $10 extra for Indian sneakers, the USG and Pentagon are more concerned about retaining control over the Pacific.

India's trade with Russia, France and Israel reduces American leverage over India. That's why they are important. The value of the trade is insignificant in comparison. And we are in mutually beneficial relationships. Naturally, India's trade with China is also of less significance since their leverage over us is diminishing every year, so geopolitics will take away a much bigger share of our energy in time.



PAF's F-16s are done. It's soon entering its replacement cycle, and they are not getting the F-35. AMRAAM is also done, it's entered the replacement cycle as well, the PAF's not gonna get that either. Their J-10Cs are now superior to the F-16. Neither are gonna "trash" the Rafale.

China is not yet a military threat to India. Also, the Chinese have to match the Americans, India doesn't have to match the Chinese.

Read posts 489 and 492.

People's Liberation Army Air Force : News & Discussions

https://nitter.net/RupprechtDeino/status/1680945248921350149 PLAAF J20 production rates are through the roof. 120 J-20 production per year. at least 500 j-20s by 2025 if this is true, it wouldn't be a shock to see over 1000 J-20 of the old and new variant by 2030. Before India even starts...

www.strategicfront.org

4.5th gen jets will still play a part due to the development of stealth drones and combat cloud, even against the J-20 and a future J-XX. Also, the Rafale is more suitable for use in the mountains than any 5th gen in existence today. They all lack the operational efficiency of the Rafale. No point operating the J-20 if all one can do is chase an egressing Rafale's tailpipe.

I have replied about trade stuff to other guy (the first part of your reply)

(2nd part of your reply)
Pakistan's F-16 are absolutely not done yet. AMRAAM's newer versions will beat METEOR. Americans and chinese will be the top dogs in military technology. For obvious reasons, the chinese MIC is off limit to us. US MIC is not. But we keep buying sub-standard european trash, giving pakistanis access to both american and chinese MIC. We are getting the worst of both worlds. Neither are we co-opting chinese, nor are we co-opting americans. We are going the retarded middle way of buying european. God help us.

And I am done with Indians who keep downplaying J-20 with their fairy tales as no one has access to actual data. I just hope indian military planners aren't this retarded.

Rafale is more suitable for use in the mountains than any 5th gen in existence today

Yes thats why 945+ F-35 are in service as of July 2023. Everyone is retarded. Its the french geniuses with their super-duper rafale that everyone is dying to buy. Also, why are french developing a stealth fighter jet then? Wow Rafale isn't good enough or what? I thought spectra made stealth shaping redundant. Also, why are the chinese developing 5th gen fighters for tibetan plateau? J-10s and Su-27 copies shoud be good enough. no?

I am done with rafale fanboys. You can deepthroat the french as much as you like but don't reply to me with such non-sense.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

We don't need to embrace anybody. We don't need to do anything outside of reforms to attract "unprecedented" capital inflows as well.

China didn't embrace the US either, it was the other way round. And the same thing's happening today between the US and India. It's the US wanting to embrace India.

The problem is this American embrace has come 15 years too late. A lot of the things we needed help with, we have developed on our own or with the assistance of others. And what we need help with, the Americans are not willing to provide. For example, even after all that big talk, the Americans have offered only 80% ToT of an older engine, whereas the French are providing 100% ToT, know-how and know-why of a more advanced engine which they themselves plan on using on the FCAS demonstrator.

And when it comes to the economy, unlike in the 70s, where the USG had some say in what the insutry does, globalisation has ensured only competitive behaviour can attract investments. For that, we need reforms and infrastructure. Without either, it doesn't matter how close we get to the US, we can even fall at their feet, but their businesses will simply invest elsewhere. So, even if we become enemies with the US, businesses will still come to India as long as we actually do our jobs.

You are way too hung up on the F-35. It's not ready yet. It's great that you have read and understood all the marketing brochures, but reality is something else entirely. Operational F-35s don't have anything 5th gen that can be considered functional, nearly 900 jets are still awaiting the TR-3 computer upgrade. The F-35 needs the 25 times more computing power to actually make use of its capabilities, beginning in 2024. Furthermore, it also needs engine upgrades. At this time, it's somewhat fine in the cold weather of Europe, but there's not a single place in India it can be reliably used from, including the seas. That's also why the USN only operates 2 dozen jets today. Even in Europe, it's underpowered. Even after it gets a 10% thrust upgrade, it will only be somewhat usable in Punjab. For operating in India, it will need a 20-30% thrust upgrade to compensate for the massive degradation in power it will experience in the mountains just to be somewhat usable, that's at least 240KN.

And then there are two other problems. At this time, the F-35's avionics are outdated. Both its radar and optical sensors are behind current industry standards, even the Indian industry. LM has revealed a roadmap to upgrade both. It's yet to get the new APG-85. As for optical sensors, the stuff on Gripen E is more advanced and LCA Mk2 is getting even more advanced stuff than that, so the F-35 definitely needs upgrades here. The same with their MMI, it's now behind compared to industry standards.

The second problem is a bigger one. They recently figured out the engine sucks.

F-35 Engine Running Too Hot Due To 'Under-Speccing,' Upgrade Now Vital (Updated)

The F-35's engine is having to work harder to cool and power the aircraft's systems, leading to a logistical mess.

www.thedrive.com

With TR-2 and TR-3, it appears the engine is fine, minus the fact that the engine is running hotter than expected, thereby reducing life and increasing maintenance and costs. But with B4 upgrades, the jet will have both insufficient cooling and electrical power.

So, as of today, the F-35 is just an expensive piece of jewellery for men. The IAF can only consider it seriously after 2030, the Block 5 to 10 variants.

The J-20 faces a massive Himalayan burden too. It needs a more advanced engine to become somewhat usable in Tibet. And it's definitely going to suffer from significant teething troubles like the Americans did.

In any case, during Gaganshakti, ACM Dhanoa said that the current lot of stealth jets are not stealthy enough. Basically vertical fins and large control surfaces have to be eliminated for stealth. So the plan is to use proven 4.5th gen with Himalayan capabilities in concert with stealth drones coming out of IUSAV and FUFA programs through the 2030s and early 2040s.

I replied to you investment climate argument in my reply to saaho.

About your post on J-20 and F-35. Man indian nationalists are something. Everyone is retaded. Its the french and indians who are the real geniuses. So much so, that HV Thakur's opinion fails infront of you guys. He clearly rates F-35 above Rafales and I trust his opnion over anyone in this forum. The entire developed world is rushing into buying stealth jets and poring in billions and here we have armchair experts telling us how F-35 is not ready.

 

[randomradio]

I have replied about trade stuff to other guy (the first part of your reply)

I don't agree with your trade stuff, it doesn't match today's environment.

Bending over for the US doesn't give you economic benefits anymore.

(2nd part of your reply)
Pakistan's F-16 are absolutely not done yet. AMRAAM's newer versions will beat METEOR. Americans and chinese will be the top dogs in military technology. For obvious reasons, the chinese MIC is off limit to us. US MIC is not. But we keep buying sub-standard european trash, giving pakistanis access to both american and chinese MIC. We are getting the worst of both worlds. Neither are we co-opting chinese, nor are we co-opting americans. We are going the retarded middle way of buying european. God help us.

It doesn't matter how good of an AMRAAM the F-16s get, they can't use them. The F-16 cannot even use the AIM-120D to its fullest extent, never mind the new D3. PAF's F-16s are on the way out. Their oldest F-16s are already 40 years old. Only 18 are relatively new, about 10+ years old. Rumours about inducting 60 J-10Cs in total.

And I am done with Indians who keep downplaying J-20 with their fairy tales as no one has access to actual data. I just hope indian military planners aren't this retarded.

What's J-20 got to do with PAF?

Yes thats why 945+ F-35 are in service as of July 2023. Everyone is retarded.

Yes, they are all retarded. This discussion is happening on another thread.
#5705

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

one could arrive at such conclusions via comparison. which is typically how we arrive at conclusions of what is "best" . we compare them. If I am going too fast for you my friend, I can find ways to help. I do not know how you can say things like: How do you measure "seriousness" again? is...

www.strategicfront.org

The earliest date for the F-35's FOC is 2029, and it's tentative. The delays are worse than the LCA. 1000 jets delivered but still no FOC from any air force.

Its the french geniuses with their super-duper rafale that everyone is dying to buy. Also, why are french developing a stealth fighter jet then? Wow Rafale isn't good enough or what? I thought spectra made stealth shaping redundant. Also, why are the chinese developing 5th gen fighters for tibetan plateau? J-10s and Su-27 copies shoud be good enough. no?

I am done with rafale fanboys. You can deepthroat the french as much as you like but don't reply to me with such non-sense.

The super-geniuses French are planning a 2050 entry date for their stealth fighter. As per ACM Dhanoa, F-22, F-35 class stealth is not real stealth. Otoh, next year, Rafale will be upgraded with new cooperative techniques that will help detect passive stealth from long range. Guess what? The F-35 is getting the same stealth technology the Rafale uses, so are the SH, F-15EX, Typhoon and Gripen E.

Tibetan plateau? Lol.

Anyway India and France are in an equal relationship with more benefits. You continue being the M in your S&M with the US. India's military and leadership are far, far wiser than you are.

 

[randomradio]

I replied to you investment climate argument in my reply to saaho.

About your post on J-20 and F-35. Man indian nationalists are something. Everyone is retaded. Its the french and indians who are the real geniuses. So much so, that HV Thakur's opinion fails infront of you guys. He clearly rates F-35 above Rafales and I trust his opnion over anyone in this forum. The entire developed world is rushing into buying stealth jets and poring in billions and here we have armchair experts telling us how F-35 is not ready.

HVT wants to sell ORCA to the IAF, not a stealth jet. He wants the company he represents, HAL, to maintain its monopoly. He knows the F-35 will come without ToT, but Rafale's gonna come with 70% ToT, with 100% for airframe and engine, and the company that builds the Rafale will become a direct challenger to HAL.

Wake up, unchain yourself from your S&M bed or beg HVT to do it for you and start reading, maybe you will start thinking again.

No, that's too difficult for you. There's a better option. Reply to me once the F-35 achieves FOC. Until then stay chained to your bed.

 

[Amarante]

Yes attack the messenger rather than message. great job. You got dissed by both a left wing and right wing source.

sometimes « the medium is the message »
It's not at all a left-right issue:
the US link has been dug up from the dustbin of the web. I don't comment.
the Azeri video (and a few others by the same author) is Turkish soft-power/propaganda aimed at the African market (Wagner does the same on twttr-tlgrm on behalf of the Russians). It's simply a question of giving Africans a "scapegoat". Scapegoating - Wikipedia
ahem, Are you African?

Jacques chirac says that big part of france's wealth comes from these nations and without these france would be a third rate power.

ahahah! He was flattering African leaders.
For my part, as a Frenchman, I'm delighted that the CFA franc is coming to an end, and that Africans will soon have a new currency of their own.
I'm also delighted that my country is gradually withdrawing from the Sahel and West Africa. The French army has claimed 58 lives since the Malian government called for help at the end of 2012, when jihadists were threatening to attack the capital, Bamako. It's enough.

(...) I have no hope from the french members on this website (& their indian slaves who can't help but keep deepthroating french cocks)

By the way, make sure you don't choke on the unclesam one!

All joking aside, you target France for its neo-colonialist leanings, but you don't say a word about the US dark side, whether in Latin America, or the Middle East! Why is that?
let me help:

(…) The economic influence of the United States on Latin America​

In addition to this interference in the internal affairs of Latin American states, in the 20th century the United States exerted economic influence through its financial investments and the establishment of its companies in this part of the American continent. Through ITT in Chile and the United Fruit Company in Guatemala, Honduras and Jamaica, the United States monopolised copper mines and banana production from harvesting to marketing.​

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In addition, the United States' economic presence had a number of harmful diplomatic consequences. The coup d'état organised in Guatemala in 1954 against Jacobo Arbenz was implemented by the CIA and the United Fruit Company in order to defend the economic interests of the United States in the face of the new agrarian reforms.​

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Often, these American economic interests and the dictatorships of the region formed objective alliances to combat the social demands of the workers and the organisations that supported them, such as the trade unions. The power exercised by these companies over these countries stemmed from the fact that they had created or set up vast economic structures and infrastructures, including plantations, port facilities, hospitals and schools, which employed tens of thousands of people in many of these countries. (14)​

​

In addition to agribusiness, the hold of American economic interests on the economies of the countries of the American continent has extended to many other sectors, including mining and telecommunications. The economic dependence of these countries on the United States was reflected in the trade relations between them and was reinforced by the fact that the economies of the countries in this region were heavily dependent on the export of agricultural or mining raw materials to the United States. In the early 1920s, for example, 50% of South American exports were destined for the American market (14).​

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The dollar, for its part, replaced the national currency in Panama in 1904, in Ecuador in 2000, and in Guatemala and El Salvador in 2001, enabling the United States to reinforce its prestige by weakening them through various economic sanctions, as was the case in Panama in 1989. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)​

from: The destabilisation of Latin America by the United States
La déstabilisation de l'Amérique latine par les États-Unis - Le blog d'ISD (fr)
more Sur Diploweb Les relations entre les Etats-Unis et le reste du continent américain : de l’arrière-cour à une future relation « d’égal à égal » ? Un article de référence sur ce site fondé par Pierre Verluise, Docteur en Géopolitique de l'Université Paris Sorbonne (fr)

not to mention the US's turpitude in the Middle East (hint: weapons of mass destruction, 2003, Colin Powell), and the recent debacle in Afghanistan, which has left thousands of jihadists over-armed with the latest US equipment. Congrats.

conclusion: I think your disgust and indignation are very selective.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

sometimes « the medium is the message »
It's not at all a left-right issue:
the US link has been dug up from the dustbin of the web. I don't comment.
the Azeri video (and a few others by the same author) is Turkish soft-power/propaganda aimed at the African market (Wagner does the same on twttr-tlgrm on behalf of the Russians). It's simply a question of giving Africans a "scapegoat". Scapegoating - Wikipedia
ahem, Are you African?

You have failed to explain any of the point I listed.
You keep saying its turkish propaganda but on the other hand keep justifying this atrocious arrangement. If nothing is wrong then why is this CFA franc arrangement being done away with?
How can a such an arrangement exist in today's age? A colonial nation having such an disproportionately advantageous deal over its former colonies. *censored*ing diabolical. How was this allowed to exist for decades? France is the reason these countries couldn't grow.
A deal of that caliber bw India & Britain is unimaginable.

By the way, make sure you don't choke on the unclesam one!

All joking aside, you target France for its neo-colonialist leanings, but you don't say a word about the US dark side, whether in Latin America, or the Middle East! Why is that?
let me help:

Pure whataboutism. I denounced russian atrocities and i equally denounce american ones. But they don't come close to what France has done for decades. The language barrier and disinterest in that region is maybe the reason why world doesn't know much about it.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

HVT wants to sell ORCA to the IAF, not a stealth jet. He wants the company he represents, HAL, to maintain its monopoly. He knows the F-35 will come without ToT, but Rafale's gonna come with 70% ToT, with 100% for airframe and engine, and the company that builds the Rafale will become a direct challenger to HAL.

Wake up, unchain yourself from your S&M bed or beg HVT to do it for you and start reading, maybe you will start thinking again.

No, that's too difficult for you. There's a better option. Reply to me once the F-35 achieves FOC. Until then stay chained to your bed.

As I said, for the armchair experts on this website even HVT's opinion won't suffice.
How about IAF pilots then? I have a family member who's a wing commander in IAF. Ofcourse, I broach such topics with him from time to time. His friend circle has other pilots as well. I occasionally talk to some of those people too. Everyone was of the similar opinion that Rafales are overpriced piece of sub-standard panes. If given a chance they would choose F-35 over it anyday.

Which is what explains the sale numbers of Rafales vs F-35. The nations buying Rafales are the ones that can't get F-35. Simple as that. Otherwise they don't have any reason not to. Nobody buys planes that are more expensive and less capabale unless they are forced to.

Egypy, Qatar: Don't have access to F-35. (even UAE has failed)
Greece: Couldn't afford F-35 even if they wanted to buy it. Got 2nd hand rafales.
India: Stuck with rafales, will probably buy F-35s 5 years from now.
Indonesia: Too close to china for US's taste, I don't think they will get access to F-35.

Also the fact that these pilots openly alluded to corruption in this Rafale deal, which even I was surprised to know, as this entire forum keeps propagating the point that there was no corruption.

As far as S&M is concerned, I am talking about doing less than what China did with an actual superpower, not a stangnant middling european power. Consider the fact that even after Tiananmen Square Massacre, american capital kept flowing into China and it became what it is today. I am asking to do much less than that.

But you can keep obsessing over equal partnerships with these dwarf middle powers like France. Atleast the country I advocate for is actually an economic and military power. So much so that your piddly France couldn't conduct its operations in its own backyard(Africa) without US support.

Yes, the economic superpower France.

And I am pretty sure Indian policy makers understand that even better than me. Which country has better industry support to offer? France or US?

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

Decoupling from China 'an illusion', French finance minister says

France's finance minister said during a visit to Beijing on Sunday that cutting all economic ties with China was "an illusion", as some Western countries question their reliance on the Asian giant.

www.enca.com

Hahahaha.......this is your "equal partner" France. While India-China were having skirmishes in middle of 2020, these european countries were making trade deals with china. That should explain to everybody how much they care about india's interests. When the next Indo-china war happens, these people will leak every weapon specifications to the Chinese. Indians will be left holding their super-duper Rafales.

french will sell their mothers to the chinese if offered enough money and here we have delusional indians deepthroating french cocks.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

The only way India avoids Chinese hegemony in our part of the world is to have China like double digit growth itself. For that India needs to align completely with the US. These european countries will always value their trade relationship with China over india. Writing is on the wall. If India continues this non-sensical hedging path, we will continue to have 5 to 6% annual GDP growth. Mediocre growth. Will reach 10 trillion USD somewhere after 2035. Indian policymakers will have no option than to bow to China then.

What we are doing is axing our own feet. We are stifling our growth prospects by spending political capital on these european powers and buying their sub-standard weapons., enriching them. For all the billions paid to France, their investment in India has been piddly.
The weapons we get will always be trumped by chinese or american and we will always underperform.

These european nations are rushing to keep their access to chinese market because dependency has been created and china on the other hand is pouring money on its R&D and slowly edging out these european companies with competitive domestic companies. BYD is the foremost example of this.

Learn from them and use this opportunity to build India.

 

[randomradio]

As I said, for the armchair experts on this website even HVT's opinion won't suffice.
How about IAF pilots then? I have a family member who's a wing commander in IAF. Ofcourse, I broach such topics with him from time to time. His friend circle has other pilots as well. I occasionally talk to some of those people too. Everyone was of the similar opinion that Rafales are overpriced piece of sub-standard panes. If given a chance they would choose F-35 over it anyday.

Which is what explains the sale numbers of Rafales vs F-35. The nations buying Rafales are the ones that can't get F-35. Simple as that. Otherwise they don't have any reason not to. Nobody buys planes that are more expensive and less capabale unless they are forced to.

Egypy, Qatar: Don't have access to F-35. (even UAE has failed)
Greece: Couldn't afford F-35 even if they wanted to buy it. Got 2nd hand rafales.
India: Stuck with rafales, will probably buy F-35s 5 years from now.
Indonesia: Too close to china for US's taste, I don't think they will get access to F-35.

Also the fact that these pilots openly alluded to corruption in this Rafale deal, which even I was surprised to know, as this entire forum keeps propagating the point that there was no corruption.

As far as S&M is concerned, I am talking about doing less than what China did with an actual superpower, not a stangnant middling european power. Consider the fact that even after Tiananmen Square Massacre, american capital kept flowing into China and it became what it is today. I am asking to do much less than that.

But you can keep obsessing over equal partnerships with these dwarf middle powers like France. Atleast the country I advocate for is actually an economic and military power. So much so that your piddly France couldn't conduct its operations in its own backyard(Africa) without US support.
View attachment 29340

Yes, the economic superpower France.

And I am pretty sure Indian policy makers understand that even better than me. Which country has better industry support to offer? France or US?

Lol, wing commander.

I'm sure we can have this discussion once the USAF announces the successful completion of Block 4.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Lol, wing commander.

I'm sure we can have this discussion once the USAF announces the successful completion of Block 4.

This guy is no Indian, looks like our bearded neighbour in disguise. IAF loves the Rafale, it's a known fact.

Looks like the latest Rafale M deal has rattled our neighbours and they are raising false flag operations in Indian forums.

 

[randomradio]

This guy is no Indian, looks like our bearded neighbour in disguise. IAF loves the Rafale, it's a known fact.

Looks like the latest Rafale M deal has rattled our neighbours and they are raising false flag operations in Indian forums.

No, I think he just has a hatred for Rafale coupled with an irrational love for HVT and a severe case of inferiority complex.

He doesn't realise that not only has IN chosen a Rafale-inspired design like TEDBF instead of a stealth design, but even HVT is pushing for ORCA over the Rafale for the IAF, which is basically a lighter TEDBF.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

This guy is no Indian, looks like our bearded neighbour in disguise. IAF loves the Rafale, it's a known fact.

Looks like the latest Rafale M deal has rattled our neighbours and they are raising false flag operations in Indian forums.

Here comes the quintessential indian nationalist who can't digest contrarian opinions. Anyone who goes against the set narratives is a pakistani. So much insecurity. You joined this website in sep 2022. I was here from the day this website was created. I was a member on the previous version of this website. Lmao.

>IAF loves Rafales.

Hahahah. Talk to actual pilots for once. Not scripted interviews.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

No, I think he just has a hatred for Rafale coupled with an irrational love for HVT and a severe case of inferiority complex.

He doesn't realise that not only has IN chosen a Rafale-inspired design like TEDBF instead of a stealth design, but even HVT is pushing for ORCA over the Rafale for the IAF, which is basically a lighter TEDBF.

>Irrational love for HVT.
Lol no. Its just that I am humble enough to realise that an actual test pilot's opinion has more value than an armchair expert on a forum.

>Inferiority complex
Wierd accusation. I don't like to deepthroat french. You do, along with so many others on this forum. I, on the other hand, want india to do what China did after Sino-Soviet split, but on a smaller scale though.

>Rafale-inspired design like TEDBF instead of a stealth design
So confidently incorrect. You seem to have ignored the news report where a Navy spokesperson clearly said that TEDBF's non stealth design is chosen for its reduced complexity. They eventually want to move to a stealth design, its just that making a navalised stealth naval aircraft is impractical at this stage. Which is quite understandable considering the difficulties with AMCA and the lack of testing facilities in India.

Here comes the quintessential indian nationalist who can't digest contrarian opinions. Anyone who goes against the set narratives is a pakistani. So much insecurity. You joined this website in sep 2022. I was here from the day this website was created. I was a member on the previous version of this website. Lmao.

>IAF loves Rafales.

Hahahah. Talk to actual pilots for once. Not scripted interviews.

For Clarity:
They might rate Rafales better than Sukhois but everyone realises that Rafale is no match for F-35, atleast the one's that i talked to do.

 

[Rajput Lion]

BS Dhanoa sir said years ago that IAF ain't interested in F-35. And looking at its woes, he was damn right.

Rafale is a game-changer. The sooner some folks realise it, the better.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

BS Dhanoa sir said years ago that IAF ain't interested in F-35. And looking at its woes, he was damn right.

Rafale is a game-changer. The sooner some folks realise it, the better.

>BS Dhanoa sir said years ago that IAF ain't interested in F-35
Yes, opinions never change, they always remain the same forever. You are talking about an air chief under which Indian Airforce had faced unprecedented humiliation from PAF. He obviosly had too much political pressure on him. If GoI wanted, BS Dhanoa would have said 1+1=11 to the media. His statements like - "Agar Rafale hota toh......" made everything clear.

>And looking at its woes, he was damn right.
Yes thats why 945 F-35s exist vs 239 Rafales. A difference of 3.95X. F-35 comes under so much scrutiny and ridicule because its an atrociously expensive program, which ironically is also the reason its so miles ahead of its competitors. Rafales are mostly sold to countries which don't have access to F-35.

>Rafale is a game-changer.
So much of a gamechanger that indian babus are alarmed because of J-20 production numbers.

>The sooner some folks realise it, the better.
Those "folks" who rated F-35 better were actual pilots not keyboard warriors. I think you should take it up with them rather than me. I am just reflecting their opinions.

 

[randomradio]

>Irrational love for HVT.
Lol no. Its just that I am humble enough to realise that an actual test pilot's opinion has more value than an armchair expert on a forum.

So you will sell the country to a corporate shill instead of believing the forces... Good to know.

>Inferiority complex
Wierd accusation. I don't like to deepthroat french. You do, along with so many others on this forum. I, on the other hand, want india to do what China did after Sino-Soviet split, but on a smaller scale though.

So your idea of challenging China is to jump from one cock to another. Good to know.

>Rafale-inspired design like TEDBF instead of a stealth design
So confidently incorrect. You seem to have ignored the news report where a Navy spokesperson clearly said that TEDBF's non stealth design is chosen for its reduced complexity. They eventually want to move to a stealth design, its just that making a navalised stealth naval aircraft is impractical at this stage. Which is quite understandable considering the difficulties with AMCA and the lack of testing facilities in India.

So the navy is right for choosing a Desi-Rafale that only exists on paper, but IAF is wrong for choosing actual Rafale that is already flying and even inducted. Good to know.

And the navy is also right for planning for a stealth jet sometime in the far future. But the IAF already running a stealth program is not good enough. Good to know.

For Clarity:
They might rate Rafales better than Sukhois but everyone realises that Rafale is no match for F-35, atleast the one's that i talked to do.

Rafale's roadmap caters to future capabilities, including ones that will defeat stealth. A Rafale F3R may be inferior to the F-35 today, but the F-35 is still WIP. The F4.2 will negate most of the F-35's stealth advantages via cooperative targeting and multistatic capabilities and the F5 may very well put both jets on par. Weaknesses will be compensated using stealth drones, we are developing 2 already and I'm sure France will also make 1 or 2 available with Rafale F5.

People talk about stealth from the perspective of detection and first shot, but nobody talks about what happens when a self-protection suite is able to defeat all the shots. So if you idealistically think about the F-35 being designed for detection-avoidance, the Rafale has been built from the perspective of hit-avoidance. So you may detect a Rafale, but you may find it much harder to track and kill. It's also possible missile seekers may fail to lock on to it too. F-35's stealth works by deflecting signals away from a radar source, but the Rafale's stealth works by eliminating its radar spikes. So when some information goes back to the source, it's degraded to the point that it's unusable.

In order to defeat the F-35's stealth, you just need to place synchronised radars in the paths of the deflected signals, ie the different radars should be able to recognise each other's signals. This is called multistatic detection. So a fleet of 2 or 4 Rafales and drones with the right hardware will be able to defeat passive stealth, and it's set to happen very soon. And the F-35's RCS cannot be improved on the same airframe. Otoh, defeating Rafale's stealth requires superior hardware and software, so it's a continuous process and is upgradable. The F-35 will also need similar hardware to keep up, and this is where French efficiency of setting realistic deadlines and completing projects on time will come into play versus the clusterfvck that is the US and LM.

In the meantime the Rafale's avionics actually work and the jet is receiving as good or better hardware than the F-35, better weapons too. Both are gonna get GaN radars and EW suite at pretty much the same time for example, 2029-30, roughly about the time the F-35 will get its complete B4 capabilities.