Ababeel MIRV

[MS Sandhu]

No weapon is perfect. It's how you use it that makes all the difference. You'll see the effectiveness of our S-400 during the next war.

Yep no weapon is perfect yet Indians make tall claims that PAF will become irrelevant after S-400's introduction in Subcontinent.
These systems are effective yes but not invincible.
It will all come down to deployment strategies
Russians were not able to disable Patriots in Kiev despite firing thousands of missiles and loitering munitions
While Ukraine was able to take out S-400 batteries on front lines
Also recently they hit Russian controlled Air base with ATACMS (Tactical Ballistic Missile) Tactical Ballistic Missiles are usually easier to handle still Russian Air defence systems could not do shit against them.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Yep no weapon is perfect yet Indians make tall claims that PAF will become irrelevant after S-400's introduction in Subcontinent.
These systems are effective yes but not invincible.
It will all come down to deployment strategies
Russians were not able to disable Patriots in Kiev despite firing thousands of missiles and loitering munitions
While Ukraine was able to take out S-400 batteries on front lines
Also recently they hit Russian controlled Air base with ATACMS (Tactical Ballistic Missile) Tactical Ballistic Missiles are usually easier to handle still Russian Air defence systems could not do shit against them.

It's not just S-400 but combination of S-400, MRSAM, Akash and our BMD along with our fighter CAP that will create problems for Pakistan. Just imagine 2 Rafales on CAP having 8 Meteors between them. While nothing except God is infallible, that combo is pretty darn lethal for you guys.

 

[MS Sandhu]

It's not just S-400 but combination of S-400, MRSAM, Akash and our BMD along with our fighter CAP that will create problems for Pakistan. Just imagine 2 Rafales on CAP having 8 Meteors between them. While nothing except God is infallible, that combo is pretty darn lethal for you guys.

S400 is already a layered system in its own.
Can launch all sorts of missiles (short Range, medium range and long range)
Others are just force multipliers.Do not add any new kind of capability in the equation.(except BMD but they have little role in conventional war)

Rafale with Meteors and Scalps ,Su-30mki with Brahmose are a threat yes but to counter it we also have Ground based Air defence systems (HQ-9P & other medium & short range defence systems) along with Thunders with Taimur & CM-400 , J10CP with Pl-15Es and F-16s with AIM-120

Lethal punch they are but we also have credible counter punch. That's the deterrence.

 

[Hydra]

S400 is already a layered system in its own.
Can launch all sorts of missiles (short Range, medium range and long range)
Others are just force multipliers.Do not add any new kind of capability in the equation.(except BMD but they have little role in conventional war)

Rafale with Meteors and Scalps ,Su-30mki with Brahmose are a threat yes but to counter it we also have Ground based Air defence systems (HQ-9P & other medium & short range defence systems) along with Thunders with Taimur & CM-400 , J10CP with Pl-15Es and F-16s with AIM-120

Lethal punch they are but we also have credible counter punch. That's the deterrence.

How dare you, questions s400? S400 is wielded in hevaen, its unstoppable.

 

[jetray]

How dare you, questions s400? S400 is wielded in hevaen, its unstoppable.

All ABM/BMD are effective only to a certain extent and any of these can be overwhelmed in one way or another. Their aim is to limit the damage and provide some sort of early protection , no body is saying it is silver bullet.

Can it provide cover & protection to some critical sites? yes they can. They will make the enemy work harder to hit targets on your side.

 

[Hydra]

All ABM/BMD are effective only to a certain extent and any of these can be overwhelmed in one way or another. Their aim is to limit the damage and provide some sort of early protection , no body is saying it is silver bullet.

Can it provide cover & protection to some critical sites? yes they can. They will make the enemy work harder to hit targets on your side.

It can provide protection, but the way we the hype is not a reality. Also the performance of s400 also doubtfull, it mostly a subpar system while comparison with the western systems.

I seriously thinks that a detailed investigation must required on s400 procurement. This deal has eaten 35-40k crores of tax payers money, which can be utilized for various other meaningful procuents like follow in purchase of Rafale or second AC.

 

[TARGET]

It can provide protection, but the way we the hype is not a reality. Also the performance of s400 also doubtfull, it mostly a subpar system while comparison with the western systems.

I seriously thinks that a detailed investigation must required on s400 procurement. This deal has eaten 35-40k crores of tax payers money, which can be utilized for various other meaningful procuents like follow in purchase of Rafale or second AC.

S400 is not for Pakistan. we are going to use Pinaka and 200–300 km MBRL. In the first week, we will wipe out the Pakistani Navy, occupy Karachi, and make Sindhudesh

 

[vstol Jockey]

It can provide protection, but the way we the hype is not a reality. Also the performance of s400 also doubtfull, it mostly a subpar system while comparison with the western systems.

I seriously thinks that a detailed investigation must required on s400 procurement. This deal has eaten 35-40k crores of tax payers money, which can be utilized for various other meaningful procuents like follow in purchase of Rafale or second AC.

Modi has recovered more than double this price by buying cheap oil from Russia.

 

[Rajput Lion]

S400 is already a layered system in its own.
Can launch all sorts of missiles (short Range, medium range and long range)
Others are just force multipliers.Do not add any new kind of capability in the equation.(except BMD but they have little role in conventional war)

Rafale with Meteors and Scalps ,Su-30mki with Brahmose are a threat yes but to counter it we also have Ground based Air defence systems (HQ-9P & other medium & short range defence systems) along with Thunders with Taimur & CM-400 , J10CP with Pl-15Es and F-16s with AIM-120

Lethal punch they are but we also have credible counter punch. That's the deterrence.

We move S-400 and take out your AWACS. Rafale with Meteor will then hunt any PAF fighter with impunity.

 

[hellbent]

What happens if majority of hostile air bases along with all their assets, eg aircrafts, ammo depos, radars etc are destroyed in the opening round itself by conventional means

Many don't understand this

This was always the intent behind development of certain weapons in the past and more so in the future by drdo

 

[Hydra]

. In the first week, we will wipe out the Pakistani Navy, occupy Karachi, and make Sindhudesh

If it's mere a troll, I appreciate it.

S400 is not for Pakistan. we are going to use Pinaka and 200–300 km MBRL. In the first week, we will wipe out the Pakistani Navy, occupy Karachi, and make Sindhudesh

All weapons we currently in service are for our enemies. Pakistan is an enemy of India, just like china. Both will tastes our weapons .

Modi has recovered more than double this price by buying cheap oil from Russia.

We anyway would have get cheap oil from Russians. They sold oil at lower price not because of our s400 purchase , it's because of import embargo of west on Russia due to Ukraine war.

 

[MS Sandhu]

We move S-400 and take out your AWACS. Rafale with Meteor will then hunt any PAF fighter with impunity.

You assume that our awacs will be operating alone
Awacs will operate in the EW environment of our ground based Korals and other Jamming Systems and air based EW Air-Crafts like DA-20 Falcon.They have their own counter measures.
You move your S-400 near border then they will come under attack of our UAVs and rocket artillery.Remember HIMARS smoked S-400 when it came to front lines.

S400 is not for Pakistan. we are going to use Pinaka and 200–300 km MBRL. In the first week, we will wipe out the Pakistani Navy, occupy Karachi, and make Sindhudesh

I don't know what's stopping Indian planners from doing this if it's that Easy.
You had your pinaka and co in 2019 also but couldn't do shit.

 

[MS Sandhu]

What happens if majority of hostile air bases along with all their assets, eg aircrafts, ammo depos, radars etc are destroyed in the opening round itself by conventional means

Many don't understand this

This was always the intent behind development of certain weapons in the past and more so in the future by drdo

Air bases can be repaired quickly.
For destroying every asset right in its hangar you need close in pin-point air strike by fighter jets but usually fighter jets are detected from far beyond.

 

[Rajput Lion]

You assume that our awacs will be operating alone
Awacs will operate in the EW environment of our ground based Korals and other Jamming Systems and air based EW Air-Crafts like DA-20 Falcon.They have their own counter measures.
You move your S-400 near border then they will come under attack of our UAVs and rocket artillery.Remember HIMARS smoked S-400 when it came to front lines.

As I said earlier, S-400 won't work alone but as part of IACCS. It means that we won't need to move it near Pak border to make sure that 40N6E is effective. An S-400 battery even 150kms inside India is extremely lethal for your AWACS.

S-400 also has 600kms acquisition radar, it could pass data to Rafale which may fire Meteor 300 kms away to take out your AWACS. Without AWACS, your fighters become extremely vulnerable to our OCA.

 

[TARGET]

You assume that our awacs will be operating alone
Awacs will operate in the EW environment of our ground based Korals and other Jamming Systems and air based EW Air-Crafts like DA-20 Falcon.They have their own counter measures.
You move your S-400 near border then they will come under attack of our UAVs and rocket artillery.Remember HIMARS smoked S-400 when it came to front lines.

I don't know what's stopping Indian planners from doing this if it's that Easy.
You had your pinaka and co in 2019 also but couldn't do shit.

NAVAL power and MBRL will be used in war, not for skirmishes and mostly plain areas; we will carpet bomb anything in the 200 km range from LOC. 2019 is a 2-day event.

 

[TARGET]

If it's mere a troll, I appreciate it.

All weapons we currently in service are for our enemies. Pakistan is an enemy of India, just like china. Both will tastes our weapons .

We anyway would have get cheap oil from Russians. They sold oil at lower price not because of our s400 purchase , it's because of import embargo of west on Russia due to Ukraine war.

Yes, all the weapons are for enemies. but I think it will be based on strategies. I always feel we will smash every strategic position that is available within 200 km of the LOC with MBRL in the first few hours of declaring war. The next phase will be drones, and the third wave will be infantry soldiers. If anything is up in the air from PAF, either they will land in India or they will crash-land in Pakistan.

 

[MS Sandhu]

As I said earlier, S-400 won't work alone but as part of IACCS. It means that we won't need to move it near Pak border to make sure that 40N6E is effective. An S-400 battery even 150kms inside India is extremely lethal for your AWACS.

S-400 also has 600kms acquisition radar, it could pass data to Rafale which may fire Meteor 300 kms away to take out your AWACS. Without AWACS, your fighters become extremely vulnerable to our OCA.

S2A or A2A Missiles are not that effective at these ranges.

NAVAL power and MBRL will be used in war, not for skirmishes and mostly plain areas; we will carpet bomb anything in the 200 km range from LOC. 2019 is a 2-day event.

Guess what we have counter equivalents.
We have 150km MLRS operational and 250km rocket each with 300kg warhead and a firing Power of 8rockets/minute from a single vehicle (can deliver 2400kg warhead in a single minute from single vehicle) under development
These are just rockets.I have not yet counted other means of firepower ( standoff munitions from Air,cruise missiles from land,Short Range Ballistic Missiles,etc.)

 

[Hydra]

Yes, all the weapons are for enemies. but I think it will be based on strategies. I always feel we will smash every strategic position that is available within 200 km of the LOC with MBRL in the first few hours of declaring war. The next phase will be drones, and the third wave will be infantry soldiers. If anything is up in the air from PAF, either they will land in India or they will crash-land in Pakistan.

Even US took almost a month to level Iraq. We are not US, and they are not Iraq.
Be realistic before you post.

 

[Sathya]

Air bases can be repaired quickly.
For destroying every asset right in its hangar you need close in pin-point air strike by fighter jets but usually fighter jets are detected from far beyond.

He may be indicating recent missile developments with ability to carry SAAW like submunitions.

It's good to read yours posts with reasoning unlike some ***

 

[randomradio]

It can provide protection, but the way we the hype is not a reality. Also the performance of s400 also doubtfull, it mostly a subpar system while comparison with the western systems.

I seriously thinks that a detailed investigation must required on s400 procurement. This deal has eaten 35-40k crores of tax payers money, which can be utilized for various other meaningful procuents like follow in purchase of Rafale or second AC.

The opposite. The S-400 has exceeded expectations in Ukraine. The IAF would have liked to buy more if allowed though, but was stopped 'cause DRDO's caught up with their own design under Project Kusha.