Air Engagement of Operation Sindoor : Analysis
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There are a lot of videos coming out however no way to establish if these are authentic or being spread as miscommunication or misdirection.
This video is also not clear.
No Rafales were lost during Sindoor.
The IAF knew beforehand that many of the PL-15 the PAF operated came straight from PLAAF's own stocks. The Pakistanis in fact released this news themselves to act as a deterrent, which failed. Even the weapon failed.
Didn't matter, the PL-15 was useless against our entire air force.
The S-400s forced the PAF to operate from the backfoot so they couldn't use their BVR advantage. Funnily enough I told the Pakistanis exactly that in 2018 on PeeDF, that the S-400 will make them helpless. Maybe @safriz will remember.
That story about BS-022 being shot down was fake. All 36 survived Sindoor.
That BS-001 or something definitely was shot down imo. All proof including IAFs own language points towards the fact we lost 1 Rafale, and admissions from Indian officials to Rueters seems to make me think it was perhaps shot down by PL15.
The Rafales we had only carried SCALPs, so I doubt there was any need to send Rafales close to the border. They would have fired them all from lower altitudes too, well outside BVR ranges.
Jaguars fired the Rampage from low altitude too.
Overall, the IAF played it very safe, so RCS reduction wouldn't have mattered in such a scenario.
I've saying since that time that we indeed lost 1 Rafale and this fully confirms it:
MKI was the only air-to-air configured jet on our side that defeated all HQ-9 SAMs and PL-15s fired towards it. Rest we indeed lost one Rafale, one Mig-29UPG., likely one M-2000 & one Heron drone.
People may say that supermanoeuvrability is now passe, but fact of the matter is, it will always remain a vital tool of air combat. Period.
People are confused about this, but it just means Rafale's getting two new weapons. A high-speed long range ARM and a glide bomb.
The Hammer used to perform DEAD alongside SCALP, but it's not enough for saturation attacks against SAMs like the S-400, hence new weapons. That's all. The glide bomb can be used in greater numbers at much lower cost than the Hammer.
We have such capabilities already. They don't have to be carried by the Rafale specifically.
The IAF seems to be planning to create their own Growler for SEAD using older platforms.
At least BS001 and 022 were not shot down.
Next Generation Weapons Technology
Rafale BS-001🥰🥰 Pakistanis spread fake news regarding shooting down of Rafale BS001 without realising that BS series Rafales are deployed in Hashimara Air Base in West Bengal. They were probably not...
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BS‑022 Alive and Flying: Pakistan’s ‘We Shot Rafale’ Story Exposed in R-Day Parade
The Pakistan Air Force's assertion of downing the Indian Air Force's Rafale jet BS-022 during May 2025's Operation Sindoor was proven false when the aircraft appeared in the Indian Republic Day Parade. , India News, Times Now
Some claim 1 was lost based on the reasoning that only 35 are being upgraded to F4. But if we lost one, there's no reason to assume it was shot down during the hostilities.
If we "crashed" one independent of hostilities, that's not considered being shot down by Pakistan.
The Spectra is but a self protection suite. It's power output is limited. Its ACT likely cannot be recalibrated to provide coverage for a mixed formation either.
The IAF needs a dedicated Wild Weasel Rafale variant with a podded SOJ for this reason. Perhaps something like the Israeli Sky Shield.
The Germans are introducing a dedicated EK variant of the EF2000 for this role, despite buying the F-35 at that.
I think a Su-30 variant might also be possible. I believe we had a discussion around a EW Growler like Su-30MKI. It might be easier to get a WW MKI flying. IIRC- you, me and @Rajput Lion had a conversation around the EW one on that thread.
We are planning to add escort and standoff (modified escort) jammer pods to the MKI.
For now, we have chosen the indigenous Talon Shield as SPJ and Israel's Scorpius EJ for escort on the MKI. We use Knirti's SAP-14 for standoff (modified escort) with a new indigenous standoff (modified escort) jammer as replacement.
As for Rafale, SPECTRA provides both self-protection and escort. It's capable of neutralizing threats from a distance like Scorpius EJ.
LCA Mk2 will also not need an escort jammer, rather a standoff jammer for modified escort jamming will be made, if necessary. They are still deciding such things.
Modified escort is what the Growler does, ie, it stays outside the range of enemy SAMs, whereas escort jamming puts the jammer aircraft inside SAM rings. Rafale and LCA Mk2 don't need pods for that. Gripen and Typhoon do 'cause they haven't designed the jets for internal carriage of large antennas, so their wingtip jammers only provide self-protection, like the case for the MKI. And Growler is stuck with large pods 'cause they had made those pods back in the 60s for the Prowler and were forced to use the same systems.
Podded systems need more power to be effective, so they give the illusion of being better, but in reality the survivability of such jets is so bad that the extra power is necessary for them to operate from further back than what internal suites allow. It means escort jamming is more effective than modified escort, which is why a Growler type capability is not necessary for Rafale and LCA Mk2. MKI needs modified escort jammer pods due to its large RCS and low agility when carrying such pods.
True standoff jamming is currently provided by business and transport aircraft with much larger antennas to make up for the distance, but the main advantage of that is being able to carry more EW experts along with you. However cognitive EW will make them obsolete after a point. EW drones are the future.
But they are working on a standoff capability for Rafale in order to defeat SAMs from very long ranges via a podded jammer. The most modern SAMs today have ranges exceeding 400 km, up to 600 km, and in the future they will exceed 1000 km. So a pod will become necessary for jamming at such ranges. This is also essentially modified escort.
Look at the sheer size of that thing.
Air forces always plans for worst case scenerio , in this case ofcourse IAF considered pl-15 as 200 + km range. so this is unlikely to have been a intelligence failure ....this was a made up story to support pl-15 kill scenerio.
when CDS said IAF was taken by surprise ??....he talked about tactical mistake & corrected it ( most probably he was referring using hammer on rafale on first day ).
recovery of intact pl-15s hubmled its own hype created by chinese state media & now we all know its just a average chinese bvr missile , not some kind of a magical weapon as presented before this conflict.
Saab 2000 Erieye has a detection range of approx 350 km ( tracking range roughly 250 km ) & claiming its guided PL-15 100 km inside indian airspace thats add up to total 450 km ....its a funny story to tell.
i dont think theirs AWACS are even integrated with PL-15.
No SAM debries ? that means we didn't lose any Rafale & those tail and engine photos were deepfakes.
We don't hide our crashes until it's under wartime emergency. IAF won't remain so silent if Rafale simply crashed because of an accident until it was shot down by enemy fire. That's what has happened here. BS001 is gone, IMO.At least BS001 and 022 were not shot down.
Next Generation Weapons Technology
Rafale BS-001🥰🥰 Pakistanis spread fake news regarding shooting down of Rafale BS001 without realising that BS series Rafales are deployed in Hashimara Air Base in West Bengal. They were probably not...
BS‑022 Alive and Flying: Pakistan’s ‘We Shot Rafale’ Story Exposed in R-Day Parade
The Pakistan Air Force's assertion of downing the Indian Air Force's Rafale jet BS-022 during May 2025's Operation Sindoor was proven false when the aircraft appeared in the Indian Republic Day Parade. , India News, Times Nowwww.timesnownews.com
Some claim 1 was lost based on the reasoning that only 35 are being upgraded to F4. But if we lost one, there's no reason to assume it was shot down during the hostilities.
If we "crashed" one independent of hostilities, that's not considered being shot down by Pakistan.
PS: There were also reports of multiple Rafales being attacked by Pakistanis, though all of them survived the barrage and returned to base except BS001.
That one whose debris were found near airforce base Bhatinda?
The PL-15E is visually identical to the PL-15 (at least to a layman's eyes). Could the IAF have known what they were going up against? Yes.
But do we have conclusive evidence? No. It might have been a SAM too. But we do know from prev experience (Balakot - amraam) that Pakistani pilots have a penchant for shooting BVR at max range w/o target lock.
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Not all were unexploded rounds. It is a new gen BVR that compares well with its Western counterparts in terms of specs. Atleast on paper.
Agree. The Pakee has a history of spinning legends out of yarn (MM Alam). However, Ereiye + Link 17 integration seems to be a plausible theory to my mind.
Why else would the PAF suddenly dump its Chini ZDK-03 awacs which was originally meant to support its Chinese fighters?