Sukhoi Su-30MKI

jk007 said:
What is the defence budget of USA & what is the defence budget of India? How much is the capital budget of IAF? Do you think USA is desperate for India to buy their weapons and get some $$$?

China is on the borders and killed 20 soldiers in brutally.....at least at this moment, PLEASE wake-up and smell some coffee....

India is not buying American strategic weapons because India does not have the military strength to face Chinese actions (Chinese do not like American weapons near it's borders).......India just want to keep China in good humour........but obviously, that strategy did not work.......Please do not make a virtue out of inability.

USA will loose nothing if India buys zero weapons from them.......
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I disagree, the USA will force India to buy and will do it in the future also. Why? Because of India - USA trade deficit. India's No1 exporting country is the USA.So to compensate for the deficit we have to buy American weapons.Now, This is slowly going towards Indo - US strategic alliance .So Chinese are going to face more American weapons in the future .

India Exports By Country
 

@vstol Jockey sir, does this kind maneuverability is of any use in actual air to air combat ? Many feels its just a air show circus, specially the part where it almost stands still and releases flares.
 
vstol Jockey said:
This is circus flying and has no value in real aircombat.
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but then there is this claim about cobra maneuver
1593585340870.png
1593585340870.png

Another one is that it confuses doppler radar as such radar filters of near zero velocity object. "Doppler radars often ignore any objects with a near-zero velocity to reduce ground clutter. The cobra maneuver's sudden change to near-zero velocity often results in the target being momentarily filtered off as ground clutter, making it difficult for the radar to lock onto the target."
 
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www.defenceaviationpost.com

Why does Tejas have red afterburner flame, and the Su-30MKI has blue? - Defence News India

Engine Here we have to understand both aircraft use different engine , su use russian engine Lyulka-Saturn AL-31FP where Tejas use American engine General Electric F404-GE-IN20
www.defenceaviationpost.com www.defenceaviationpost.com

Right. For all those of you worrying about such earth shattering matters as the title of this post but were too embarrased to ask knowing @randomradio would indulge in spinning fanciful stories, here's the answer. No need to thank me. Thanks in advance.
 
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Sathya said:
@randomradio why 12 Su 30 mki cost more than 1.4 billion $ ?
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We only have a certain level of Know how for Su30MKI manufacturing. Like we do have quite a good amount of ToT on its radar. But we don't have its IP.

So everytime we order more Su30MKI from HAL we also need to pay for extending the licences of production to various entities.

And since the numbers are small. It's much more costly.

Secondly Irkut plant will need to supply kits to HAL to start the production. It's not 100% made in India.

If we simply bought planes outright from Irkut plant , it would cost us 40-45 million USD a pop. Then fly it to IAF BRD and fit the remaining western systems, at max 20 million USD more. That's half the price we are going to pay right now.

It's just like that. Licence production of a 4th gen fighter in contemporary (from 2010s onwards especially) is not cost effective. It's always atleast 1.5 to 2.5 times more costly.
 
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randomradio said:
Possible purchase of weapons. Perhaps the K-77M or something else, or a combination of two or more weapons we do not want revealed.

If they have hidden it, then we are not going to know about it anytime soon.
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First major deal for A2A missiles, A2G missiles and bombs were made in 2004. Then very recently we made another deal for R73/77/27 missiles after the shelf life of first batch bought in 2004 was coming to an end.

We also had bought heavy duty bunker buster bombs from Russians after 2016. Also were bought Russian guided bombs. For more specific missions we have Spice on orders.

There's nothing new we can expect as of now in terms of weapons imo.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
We only have a certain level of Know how for Su30MKI manufacturing. Like we do have quite a good amount of ToT on its radar. But we don't have its IP.

So everytime we order more Su30MKI from HAL we also need to pay for extending the licences of production to various entities.

And since the numbers are small. It's much more costly.

Secondly Irkut plant will need to supply kits to HAL to start the production. It's not 100% made in India.

If we simply bought planes outright from Irkut plant , it would cost us 40-45 million USD a pop. Then fly it to IAF BRD and fit the remaining western systems, at max 20 million USD more. That's half the price we are going to pay right now.

It's just like that. Licence production of a 4th gen fighter in contemporary (from 2010s onwards especially) is not cost effective. It's always atleast 1.5 to 2.5 times more costly.
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CAG made those numbers open. Per bird is around ~$75 mil. We are paying around ~10 million extra.

This clearance includes some upgrades.


https://twitter.com/x/status/1278846884006617088
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
First major deal for A2A missiles, A2G missiles and bombs were made in 2004. Then very recently we made another deal for R73/77/27 missiles after the shelf life of first batch bought in 2004 was coming to an end.

We also had bought heavy duty bunker buster bombs from Russians after 2016. Also were bought Russian guided bombs. For more specific missions we have Spice on orders.

There's nothing new we can expect as of now in terms of weapons imo.
Click to expand...

I know, but the only thing left are upcoming weapons, like the K-77M, R-74M and some of the A2G weapons being made for Su-57.

These are the weapons we can integrate the quickest.

Otoh, 1.44/12 puts each jet at $120M. I don't think the excess amount is just licensing. And definitely not infrastructure costs since these are merely attrition replacements and will be going to their respective home squadrons. Even if we assume the jets cost $70M each, there is the remaining $600M that's easily excess.

It may also be some exotic technology for the MKI we may not know about.
 
randomradio said:
I know, but the only thing left are upcoming weapons, like the K-77M, R-74M and some of the A2G weapons being made for Su-57.

These are the weapons we can integrate the quickest.

Otoh, 1.44/12 puts each jet at $120M. I don't think the excess amount is just licensing. And definitely not infrastructure costs since these are merely attrition replacements and will be going to their respective home squadrons. Even if we assume the jets cost $70M each, there is the remaining $600M that's easily excess.

It may also be some exotic technology for the MKI we may not know about.
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The way we work, I will not hope for some exotic technology as of yet.

What is possible that after the initial buys we never ordered more Anti Radiation missiles (kh31P variant) , anti shipping missile (kh35) and air to ground attack cms (kh59 ME). The Brahmos will be limited to the squadron based in TN as of now and DRDO anti radiation missile and nirbhay variant of ALCM is yet to be certified.

So it is very much possible that these missiles were ordered. Also because all of these missiles can also be used from Mig29 fleet and we're supposed to be integrated to Tejas. It might be a possibility.

And maybe even more laser guided bombs. Bunker busters were ordered after 2016. So that is covered.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
The way we work, I will not hope for some exotic technology as of yet.

What is possible that after the initial buys we never ordered more Anti Radiation missiles (kh31P variant) , anti shipping missile (kh35) and air to ground attack cms (kh59 ME). The Brahmos will be limited to the squadron based in TN as of now and DRDO anti radiation missile and nirbhay variant of ALCM is yet to be certified.

So it is very much possible that these missiles were ordered. Also because all of these missiles can also be used from Mig29 fleet and we're supposed to be integrated to Tejas. It might be a possibility.

And maybe even more laser guided bombs. Bunker busters were ordered after 2016. So that is covered.
Click to expand...

We might know more once the actual deal is signed.
 
sid4587 said:
but then there is this claim about cobra maneuverView attachment 16711View attachment 16711
Another one is that it confuses doppler radar as such radar filters of near zero velocity object. "Doppler radars often ignore any objects with a near-zero velocity to reduce ground clutter. The cobra maneuver's sudden change to near-zero velocity often results in the target being momentarily filtered off as ground clutter, making it difficult for the radar to lock onto the target."
Click to expand...
WTF did I just read.
 
randomradio said:
Possible purchase of weapons. Perhaps the K-77M or something else, or a combination of two or more weapons we do not want revealed.

If they have hidden it, then we are not going to know about it anytime soon.
Click to expand...
and chinese who also buy from russia wont get to know about it? I bet bribing a few russian officials is good enuf to know what the transaction was all about.
 
sid4587 said:
but then there is this claim about cobra maneuverView attachment 16711View attachment 16711
Another one is that it confuses doppler radar as such radar filters of near zero velocity object. "Doppler radars often ignore any objects with a near-zero velocity to reduce ground clutter. The cobra maneuver's sudden change to near-zero velocity often results in the target being momentarily filtered off as ground clutter, making it difficult for the radar to lock onto the target."
Click to expand...
 
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