Sukhoi Su-30MKI

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Multiple issues as it's still a prototype.
From the press release, it looks like permanent magnets coupled to the spool shaft,= so a DC generator.

Such a system in a brand new purely DC system is fine, Frequency won't be an issue, no issues of THDi, THDv, TDD.

But if you have AC systems in the Aircraft, you will lose close to half your payload in 24 (12 min) pulse autotransformers, chokes and input line reactors to mitigate the harmonics and frequency requirements.

So if you do end with such a Stater/Generator, each and every device, relay, fuse, mission comp, harnesses, on MKI will need to replaced. , and if not, I dont think even removing the gearbox will give you the space to put the 12PAT enclosure in the same space. (Not to mention your 12PAT and the VFD's too will need cooling systems)

I don't know anything about the Rolls Royce generator, but they have managed to remove the IDG. I don't believe it's only a DC generator. You can generate AC also from this design.

I don't know if the Russians have planned something similar for AL-51. Anyway I don't see the IAF playing around with an engine that's clearly still a WIP. So even if the AL-51 ends up with an IDG, the Russians won't be able to introduce it on any other engine until it finishes development, never mind the fact that it may be impossible as well.

Anyway the point is, only 117S and 117 can be possible templates for any new IDG design. At least both have the CSD+generator combo as is.

So 117S/117 tech on AL-31FP or bust.
 

_Anonymous_

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Dec 4, 2017
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I apologize.

Let me summarize my thoughts:

>Multiple blk type upgrade programs needed for Flanker family, and HAL should try to position itself as a lead integrator. (Read#1158)
>Few of the upgrade options should have AESA package, and new mission comps without engine change. ie powering a new AESA radar with the same Engine.
>If the AESA package leads to a total demand value that exceeds rated power o/p then a (gearbox/CSD)>IDG change. (Still cheaper than a new engine)

Final Thought: I have 100% faith in MoD/IAF brass to *censored* up the entire upgrade program up for MKI.
Apologies not needed, buddy. I'm embarrassed. That wasn't why I commented the way I did at all. Personally, it prompted me to brush up my basics on aeroengines too. Welcome diversion, I'd say.

I'm a huge fan of the MKI. Economics & air frame life permitting, I'd like to see a brand new engine powering the MKI, along with a brand new AESA radar & top notch avionics too, especially if we want to see this beauty in service all the way up to 2050, which I think it will irrespective of the nature of the upgrades we undertake & the numbers involved too.

I just hope the last part of your statement is disproved.
 
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_Anonymous_

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What ADA means is it's already in queuing up to buy the engine.
There was huge speculation on BR a few months ago on which engine would be most suited to power the Mk1 which will need 110KN - 120 KN, till there was some unanimity on the GE 414 ER, to be developed to power the upgraded SH in the near future so as to save ADA the cost in asking GE to upgrade the ER. That's how ADA is operating. Juggad, on a wing & a prayer.
 

lcafanboy

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Dec 22, 2017
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Does India have the local tech to upgrade the Su-30MKI fleet into ” Super 30 ” on its own? Published April 8, 2020 | By admin SOURCE: SATYAJEET KUMAR/ FOR MY TAKE / **** A country which pans to develop its own 5th Generation fighter jet and is already is working on the development of Tejas-Mk2 a 4.5+ Generation fighter and already has developed Tejas Mk1 4th Gen fighter and now plans to develop a Mk1A 4++ Gen fighter is still depended on the original equipment manufacturer for upgradation and modernization of what it calls the backbone of its airforce fleet? , let examine if India has local technology to upgrade them in the first place. Since IAF is only planning to upgrade only its avionics and electronics so this report will focus on this aspect. AESA RADAR: NIIP N011M Bars radar, which is a passive electronically scanned array (PESA) system will be replaced by a derivative of the N036 X-Band AESA radar used on the 5th Generation Su-57 fighter jet. India’s indigenous Uttam AESA radar under development for the Tejas-Mk2 is a scalable radar that can be scaled up or down depending on antenna size requirement. Uttam AESA radar for Su-30 will require a larger bigger antenna which packs more T/R modules to take advantage of bigger space of the frontal nose cone of the Su-30MKI. New Mission Computer: The Su-30MKI fleet is equipped with Mission Computer cum Display Processor-MC-486 and DP-30MK developed by India’s very own Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) in 1998. The 32-bit mission computer performs mission-oriented computations, flight management, reconfiguration-cum-redundancy management, and in-flight systems self-tests. In compliance with MIL-STD-1521 and 2167A standards, Ada language was adopted for the mission computer’s software. According to DARE it already has developed Advanced computers for next-generation aircraft and one developed for Tejas Mk1 and Mk2 which are PowerPC based computing architecture which is a 64-bit which is a big improvement in processing power. Upgraded Su-30MKI Cockpit: India’s HAL already showcased newly upgraded cockpit which now features, Two 230mmx305mm high-resolution LCDs with a multifunction control panel with a wide 20°x30° field of view head-up display which brings it at par with the Cockpit of the Sukhoi Su-35. Samtel/DARE will develop new high-resolution LCDs. Radar warning receiver (RWR): Su-30MKI fleet are equipped with DARE developed Tarang-Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF). DARE now has developed all digital RWR christened ‘Dhruti’ for the Su-30MKI fleet, based on its experience on D-29 RWR developed for the Mig-29UPG fleet. Self-Protection Jammer Pods: Su-30MKI fleet are equipped with Russian SAP-518 pods which due to poor performance was supplemented with Israeli Elta EL/L-8222 Airborne Self Protection Jammer (ASPJ) pods, which now have been offered with wideband EL/L-8222WB pods. DARE also has developed DARE’s High Band Jammer (HBJ) which has begun dummy trials in 2019. Infrared image search and track system (IRST): IAF’s Su-30MKI fleet is equipped with Russian OLS-30 IRST which soon will be replaced by India’s Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) developed IRST which will be far more advanced and will be tuned to detect stealth aircraft at long range. Integrated Radio Communication set (INCOM): Su-30MKI fleet are equipped with HAL developed Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A which will be replaced by indigenous Software Defined Radio systems (SDRs) which are being developed by WESEE (Weapons and Electronics Systems Engineering Establishment) jointly with BEL for all fighter jets in IAF fleet. These SDRs will be jam-resistant with secure features. RAM-2700A Radio Altimeter: HAL developed RAM-1701 is equipped on the Su-30MKI fleet which likely will be replaced likely by more advanced RAM-2700A which was developed for Jaguar and LCA-Tejas fleet. They are more countless system which can be replaced by Indian made one.

**** .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website Does India have the local tech to upgrade the Su-30MKI fleet into ” Super 30 ” on its own? – Indian Defence Research Wing .
 

Gautam

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Indian Air Force Su-30MKI on a maritime mission
1587214547578.png
 
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randomradio

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DSC00654.jpg


It appears HAL is offering an indigenous AESA radar for the MKI upgrade. It's unclear if it's referring to Uttam or 2052 or something else entirely.
 

randomradio

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What is the proposed timeline? There are no details of the upgrades so one cannot compare with the Russian offer.

It's going to take many years after signature. I'm guessing 2025 or 2026 if we sign up for the upgrade this year.

As for the Russian offer, that pic should be largely accurate, only the AESA radar is in doubt. I still think we will be going for a Russian option right now.

What I think is HAL is even considering some Israeli tech as indigenous. I don't know of any indigenous helmet program for example.

Uttam is smaller since it is for LCA Tejas, so can it be used for MKI?

Yeah. It can be scaled to fit any size.
 
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_Anonymous_

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View attachment 15582

It appears HAL is offering an indigenous AESA radar for the MKI upgrade. It's unclear if it's referring to Uttam or 2052 or something else entirely.
Where's the Uttam radar? It's still undergoing tests. How can you or even HAL propose that as a solution when it has yet to be certified? On what grounds would the IAF accept such a half baked proposal?
 

randomradio

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Where's the Uttam radar? It's still undergoing tests. How can you or even HAL propose that as a solution when it has yet to be certified? On what grounds would the IAF accept such a half baked proposal?

The Uttam radar is likely much further ahead in the development curve compared to the Russian AESA meant for the upgrade. The Uttam is already in flight testing, so it's already qualified to become part of the options. I bet the Russian radar is yet to begin flight testing.

Also, the Uttam will be integrated with the unified EW suite right from the beginning, whereas work on integrating the Russian AESA with the indigenous suite will be a pretty long process. The same with the data link and satcom link.

However I still think the IAF will go for a Russian radar for the first batch. Their technology will be more mature, riding on the success of the N036, even if we have to deal with more development work later on, which will be introduced in phases anyway. And the integration of exotic Russian weapons will naturally be much faster as well, not to mention cheaper.