Ukraine - Russia Conflict

It appears the Russians and Chinese have some sort of agreement going that makes them similar to India and US today.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Russia and China line up against US in 'no limits' partnership - Times of India

China News: MOSCOW: China and Russia proclaimed a deep strategic partnership on Friday to balance what they portrayed as the malign global influence of the United.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com timesofindia.indiatimes.com

www.globaltimes.cn

Unprecedented China-Russia ties to start a new era of intl relations not defined by US - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

Looks like India is gonna lose Russia to China by the end of the decade.
 
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randomradio said:
It appears the Russians and Chinese have some sort of agreement going that makes them similar to India and US today.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Russia and China line up against US in 'no limits' partnership - Times of India

China News: MOSCOW: China and Russia proclaimed a deep strategic partnership on Friday to balance what they portrayed as the malign global influence of the United.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com timesofindia.indiatimes.com

www.globaltimes.cn

Unprecedented China-Russia ties to start a new era of intl relations not defined by US - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

Looks like India is gonna lose Russia to China by the end of the decade.
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Russia is already with China. The only reason Russian officials keep chanting about how special India Russia relations are because we pay dollars. We are a growing market with untapped potential.

Other than that if it comes to choosing on international affairs, Russia will and has been siding with China.

We need reduce any import for which their is a desi substitute, irrespective of the source. Our growth and market will ensure that all nations will continue to have a working relationship with us for next few decades.

The day we stop paying big dollars to Russian arms and nuclear energy complex , it will be selling what Pakistan can afford.

Buk SAM and Mig29M both were offered. But financing meant Pakistan will go for its Chinese copy and more JF17s.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
Russia is already with China. The only reason Russian officials keep chanting about how special India Russia relations are because we pay dollars. We are a growing market with untapped potential.

Other than that if it comes to choosing on international affairs, Russia will and has been siding with China.

We need reduce any import for which their is a desi substitute, irrespective of the source. Our growth and market will ensure that all nations will continue to have a working relationship with us for next few decades.

The day we stop paying big dollars to Russian arms and nuclear energy complex , it will be selling what Pakistan can afford.

Buk SAM and Mig29M both were offered. But financing meant Pakistan will go for its Chinese copy and more JF17s.
Click to expand...

This was bound to happen. But this is another area where changes are happening way too early. We needed 10 more years to reduce our dependency on Russia, so that has to be hastened now.

This is not good for Russia either, they do not want to fall under China's sphere after all. So India and Russia depend on each other to contain China. We also need Russia for energy security, so we had plans for gas pipelines through CAR and China, two lines through two different supply routes, which needs a strong relationship between India and Russia for it to work. But Russia seems to be entering this new partnership with China from a position of weakness.

I'm not too worried about Pakistan, they are way too broke to attract Russia. And even if they do get money, the Russians will not actively work against Indian interests.
 
randomradio said:
This was bound to happen. But this is another area where changes are happening way too early. We needed 10 more years to reduce our dependency on Russia, so that has to be hastened now.

This is not good for Russia either, they do not want to fall under China's sphere after all. So India and Russia depend on each other to contain China. We also need Russia for energy security, so we had plans for gas pipelines through CAR and China, two lines through two different supply routes, which needs a strong relationship between India and Russia for it to work. But Russia seems to be entering this new partnership with China from a position of weakness.

I'm not too worried about Pakistan, they are way too broke to attract Russia. And even if they do get money, the Russians will not actively work against Indian interests.
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Our foreign policy has been balanced and not bad. Bit more effort on foreign engagement should be a priority. We have atleast 2 deacdes of aggresive growth in front of us.

We cannot do much either about Ukraine issue or Russia China closeness.

We should work on that no matter what happens internationally we are not interrupted.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
Our foreign policy has been balanced and not bad. Bit more effort on foreign engagement should be a priority. We have atleast 2 deacdes of aggresive growth in front of us.
Click to expand...

Our foreign policy is risk-averse. We pussied out of fights with both Pak and China, although it was mutual, so there's that, but still pussied out. We are easily bullied by the US, it's easy for them to interfere in our foreign policy decisions. We are standing our ground on important stuff, but still giving ground in areas where it is of advantage to us but find it better to succumb to US pressure instead. Like Iran.

Ankit Kumar said:
We cannot do much either about Ukraine issue or Russia China closeness.
Click to expand...

So this goes back to the previous point. The closer Russia gets to China, the more pressure the US can place on India and get better concessions. Like stopping more nuclear power deals in exchange for their own, trying to stop the SSN transfer. Russia is important for our gas security, but we may have to give up on some of that. NSTC may become difficult to implement. And so on.

It's no longer as simple as it used to be.

The Americans are very, very successfully playing to their strengths while taking advantage of others' weaknesses to gain a massive advantage for themselves, and the funny thing is the others can only watch. By pushing Russia into a corner on Ukraine, they are taking control of Europe's energy reliance on Russia thereby weakening them, while simultaneously pushing an unwilling Russia towards China, which is slowly driving a wedge between India and Russia. That's so many birds with one stone.

In this game, the weaker players are at fault for being weak, ie India and Russia. While stronger players like Germany got suckered into such a weak position all on their own, to the point where their entire economy is at risk, furthermore making their govt politically weaker and their companies less competitive than American companies.

The US wants a conflict. The only ones who will come out unscathed in this conflict is the US. Not even China, 'cause oil and gas prices will increase, something that will quite literally affect everyone. It gets worse in our case because, unlike the Chinese, we don't even have the option of taking advantage of Iran in such a situation due to American interference.

This situation is not good for India at all.
 
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randomradio said:
Our foreign policy is risk-averse. We pussied out of fights with both Pak and China, although it was mutual, so there's that, but still pussied out. We are easily bullied by the US, it's easy for them to interfere in our foreign policy decisions. We are standing our ground on important stuff, but still giving ground in areas where it is of advantage to us but find it better to succumb to US pressure instead. Like Iran.



So this goes back to the previous point. The closer Russia gets to China, the more pressure the US can place on India and get better concessions. Like stopping more nuclear power deals in exchange for their own, trying to stop the SSN transfer. Russia is important for our gas security, but we may have to give up on some of that. NSTC may become difficult to implement. And so on.

It's no longer as simple as it used to be.

The Americans are very, very successfully playing to their strengths while taking advantage of others' weaknesses to gain a massive advantage for themselves, and the funny thing is the others can only watch. By pushing Russia into a corner on Ukraine, they are taking control of Europe's energy reliance on Russia thereby weakening them, while simultaneously pushing an unwilling Russia towards China, which is slowly driving a wedge between India and Russia. That's so many birds with one stone.

In this game, the weaker players are at fault for being weak, ie India and Russia. While stronger players like Germany got suckered into such a weak position all on their own, to the point where their entire economy is at risk, furthermore making their govt politically weaker and their companies less competitive than American companies.

The US wants a conflict. The only ones who will come out unscathed in this conflict is the US. Not even China, 'cause oil and gas prices will increase, something that will quite literally affect everyone. It gets worse in our case because, unlike the Chinese, we don't even have the option of taking advantage of Iran in such a situation due to American interference.

This situation is not good for India at all.
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/x/status/1489630448225427461

That train is long gone.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1489630448225427461

That train is long gone.
Click to expand...
Part of the reason is because our Government is fast asleep. If you've propoganda outlets of gulf Sheikdoms like Al Jazeera rip you apart almost daily , it's only a matter of time before others jump on to the bandwagon. Since this government doesn't care about domestic media so much so that it doesn't have a media team in place to advise it on public relations , this government has extended it's apathy to international media too

Look at how Egypt handled AJ . Contrast that to how AJ covers the Sisi regime & AJ today. There's hardly any mention of either in AJ leave aside any critical reporting.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1489630448225427461

That train is long gone.
Click to expand...

Media propaganda and actually working against national interests are not the same thing though. Media is used even amongst allies, so this is nothing new. When democratic institutions are strong, the propaganda is less effective.

In fact this is only going to increase more or more, it has nothing to do with enmity, we are just a very, very fricking scary country to others because of potential, and trying to divide us along known friction lines is a pretty normal strategy.

The US is better at this than China or Russia.
 
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So Russia and China have signed oil and gas deals.
www.news18.com

Vladimir Putin Hails $117.5 Billion of China Deals as Russia Squares off with West - News18

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the deal was for 25 years, while a Chinese industry source said it was for 30.
www.news18.com www.news18.com

Taiwan is really pissed off at the timing of this new partnership. Pretty strong words used there.
www.ndtv.com

Taiwan Condemns "Contemptible" Timing Of China-Russia Partnership

Taiwan on Saturday condemned as "contemptible" the timing of China and Russia's "no limits" partnership at the start of the Winter Olympics, saying the Chinese government was bringing shame to the spirit of the Games.
www.ndtv.com www.ndtv.com

France and Germany trying to salvage the Ukraine situation. :ROFLMAO: Poor decisions have finally come home to roost.
indianexpress.com

French, German leaders to visit Russia, Ukraine amid tension | World News - The Indian Express

The high-level visits come as China has backed Russia's demand that NATO be precluded from expanding to Ukraine, and after the US accused the Kremlin on Thursday of an elaborate plot to fabricate an attack by Ukrainian forces that Russia could use as a pretext to take military action.
indianexpress.com indianexpress.com
Too bad the US holds the reins.
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
Ideally yes. But Ukraine's voice seems drowned out by the west . All we seem to hear is western opposition & Russia's views. We don't know what the Ukranian stand is neither are we aware of any Russo Ukranian negotiations.

How should India react ? I don't think India has any interest in being dragged into this mess just as I don't think any of the players expect much from India but to sit it out .

India can't afford to be indifferent to the Ukranian position as in principle India's is in a similar situation being at the receiving end of Chinese aggression. Technically India ought to be supportive of the Ukranian position. However we both know that given India's relationship & a certain amount of dependency on Russia it's not going to happen.

At the same time we can't & won't be voicing our support for the Russian position as well. Can't coz of the LAC , won't coz we don't want to get sucked into an unnecessary diplomatic slugfest & antagonize the west .

Besides I didn't hear of any public statement from Russia in our favour all thru the incidents on the LAC though behind the scenes it's been understood that Russia was doing it's utmost to defuse tensions partly at India's request , possibly at the behest of the Chinese too besides in pursuit of it's own agenda of building up an RIC front to combat western aggression at least on the diplomatic & economic front.
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We are essentially irrelevant in that region. And Ukraine's absorption in Russia might help us more than Ukraine falling for the west.
 
Amarante said:
You refer to the events postSotchi 2014?
Are you predecting military invasion of dombass or more?
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After Beijing Olympics. And by the looks of things the Russians might take a huge chunk of Eastern Ukraine and some land north of Crimea. I'm iffy about them using Belarus to take or surround Kiev that puts Belarus in danger of retaliation from Ukraine. Belarus could also see significant sanctions if they allow Russia to attack Ukraine, and if somehow US/NATO get dragged in due to a US/NATO ISR plane getting shot down Belarus can find itself in the crosshairs of the US.

Once the Russia started moving huge amounts of medical supplies and blood near the border that was a sign that it's going down soon.
www.yahoo.com

Russia moves blood and medical supplies near Ukraine, possibly in preparation for a major military operation: report

"We are starting to see key indicators of Russian preparations for a large-scale military operation, expecting casualties," one Russia expert said.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

I mean there's a small part of me that thinks he's going to troll the west by recalling back his forces from the border exposing the west for
what they truly are but that is just wishful thinking on my part.
 
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