Trainer Aircraft of IAF - PC-7, HTT-40, HJT-36, BAE Hawk

Sathya said:
I hope they do maintenance deal ( for Pilatus) with some vendor and be done with it.
Click to expand...

They have to do it with Pilatus itself. But there's also a good chance all 75 can eventually get grounded and either scrapped or sold. The AW helicopters are also grounded and are gathering dust. Pilatus could also get blacklisted. Or they may point out they don't have a choice but to operate it and not blacklist Pilatus, the same thing happened to Israel's Rafael.

Rest all should go to HTT40.
Click to expand...

Logically, yes. But only if it's ready. But the IAF fears it could go the same way as the IJT. If it turns out that HTT-40 will be delayed, then it's obvious the govt will sign up for a GTG for all 106 or 181 trainers.

Right now, the IAF claims HAL won't get the aircraft ready until 2021, which means the first aircraft will be delivered only in 2024-25. It should have entered production this year. As of today, HTT-40 doesn't exist.

Many ways this can go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sathya
randomradio said:
They have to do it with Pilatus itself. But there's also a good chance all 75 can eventually get grounded and either scrapped or sold. The AW helicopters are also grounded and are gathering dust. Pilatus could also get blacklisted. Or they may point out they don't have a choice but to operate it and not blacklist Pilatus, the same thing happened to Israel's Rafael.



Logically, yes. But only if it's ready. But the IAF fears it could go the same way as the IJT. If it turns out that HTT-40 will be delayed, then it's obvious the govt will sign up for a GTG for all 106 or 181 trainers.

Right now, the IAF claims HAL won't get the aircraft ready until 2021, which means the first aircraft will be delivered only in 2024-25. It should have entered production this year. As of today, HTT-40 doesn't exist.

Many ways this can go.
Click to expand...

HTT 40 taken a proven design and engine.
It is possible for anything to give wrong, but I think I read they chose the least risk option.

Why it is getting delayed, don't know.
Is it detrimental if the problem is let out in public?
 
Sathya said:
HTT 40 taken a proven design and engine.
It is possible for anything to give wrong, but I think I read they chose the least risk option.

Why it is getting delayed, don't know.
Is it detrimental if the problem is let out in public?
Click to expand...

They are doing the spin tests. It should clear all the tests before it can be certified.
 
randomradio said:
They have to do it with Pilatus itself. But there's also a good chance all 75 can eventually get grounded and either scrapped or sold. The AW helicopters are also grounded and are gathering dust. Pilatus could also get blacklisted. Or they may point out they don't have a choice but to operate it and not blacklist Pilatus, the same thing happened to Israel's Rafael.



Logically, yes. But only if it's ready. But the IAF fears it could go the same way as the IJT. If it turns out that HTT-40 will be delayed, then it's obvious the govt will sign up for a GTG for all 106 or 181 trainers.

Right now, the IAF claims HAL won't get the aircraft ready until 2021, which means the first aircraft will be delivered only in 2024-25. It should have entered production this year. As of today, HTT-40 doesn't exist.

Many ways this can go.
Click to expand...
Just to Point out - Pretty sure that All VIP AW101 that were built including the ones in IAF hands - have been sold off

Nigerian AW101 makes debut flight
 
GuardianRED said:
Just to Point out - Pretty sure that All VIP AW101 that were built including the ones in IAF hands - have been sold off

Nigerian AW101 makes debut flight
Click to expand...
New Delhi, Nov. 26:
Click to expand...
The Indian Air Force is in a bind over its “lalbattis-in-the-sky” that are now “mothballed on the ground”.

It has asked an equally vexed defence ministry to make up its mind on what it should do with three super-luxury AW101 VVIP helicopters that were meant to fly the President, Prime Minister and other dignitaries but have been dismantled and stowed in protective casing in a hangar at the Palam air base.

The helicopters are occupying valuable space in the airbase. The IAF decided to mothball them since former defence minister A.K. Antony decided on January 1 this year to terminate the Rs 3,600-crore contract with AgustaWestland for 12 of the helicopters.
Click to expand...

IAF in a fix over VVIP copters
 
  • Agree
Reactions: GuardianRED
randomradio said:
PC-7 is indeed cheaper than HTT-40. If you think there was corruption involved, then you should push for a PIL in the SC. But then, nobody thinks there's corruption involved, the PC-7 did win the tender in 2011. It beat 2 other aircraft from US and Korea. Maybe you don't know, but the IAF had announced back in 2009 that they will buy 75 trainers from the tender and allow HAL to deliver 106 trainers of their own. Big mistake there. And we know that today. They could have saved themselves a lot of headache if HAL had simply license produced all 181 trainers.
Click to expand...
Somebody thinks there is corruption involved.

India cancels Pilatus aircraft purchase amid corruption probe

CBI has alleged that Pilatus Aircraft Limitedexternal link entered into a criminal conspiracy with notorious arms dealer Sanjay Bhandari and Bimal Sareen, both directors of Offset India Solutions Private limited.

This agreement, according to the agency, was in violation of India’s weapons procurement rules.

The agency also claims that the plane maker deposited CHF1 million in the account of Offset India Solutions in two installments in 2010.

Given nobody thinks there is corruption involved, why pay a million francs to a dalal firm?
 
Milspec said:
Somebody thinks there is corruption involved.

India cancels Pilatus aircraft purchase amid corruption probe

CBI has alleged that Pilatus Aircraft Limitedexternal link entered into a criminal conspiracy with notorious arms dealer Sanjay Bhandari and Bimal Sareen, both directors of Offset India Solutions Private limited.

This agreement, according to the agency, was in violation of India’s weapons procurement rules.

The agency also claims that the plane maker deposited CHF1 million in the account of Offset India Solutions in two installments in 2010.

Given nobody thinks there is corruption involved, why pay a million francs to a dalal firm?
Click to expand...
The one who thinks corruption wasn't involved has since done a back flip and revised his view.
randomradio said:
Meh, if there's corruption involved, then it's gotta go, along with all the people involved.
Click to expand...
 
Ashwin said:
I thought I shouldn't rub it in but you couldn't resist. :censored:
Click to expand...
I grew up among military aviation circles, even a short conversation with my dad's buddies brings our treasure troves of stories about the forces that sound like came from arrors fiction. Everyone who around knew that there was irregularities in PC7.
So when @randomradio was insistent that no such scam happened, I was just nodding that, soon you will see.

Same with WZT's from poland, no one's gone to jail; yet.
 
Milspec said:
Somebody thinks there is corruption involved.

India cancels Pilatus aircraft purchase amid corruption probe

CBI has alleged that Pilatus Aircraft Limitedexternal link entered into a criminal conspiracy with notorious arms dealer Sanjay Bhandari and Bimal Sareen, both directors of Offset India Solutions Private limited.

This agreement, according to the agency, was in violation of India’s weapons procurement rules.

The agency also claims that the plane maker deposited CHF1 million in the account of Offset India Solutions in two installments in 2010.

Given nobody thinks there is corruption involved, why pay a million francs to a dalal firm?
Click to expand...

Meh, now someone thinks there's corruption involved.
 
randomradio said:
Meh, now someone thinks there's corruption involved.
Click to expand...
Just wondering why would CBI, under the Modi government make such claims of Pilatus depositing a million francs to Bhandari and Sareen?

You were the one who claimed, nobody thinks there were corrupt practices in PC7 selection and everything was kosher? right?

The funny thing is, You wanted me to put a PIL in SC or something, well, looks like CBI might just get some sort of litigation done.
 
Milspec said:
Just wondering why would CBI, under the Modi government make such claims of Pilatus depositing a million francs to Bhandari and Sareen?

You were the one who claimed, nobody thinks there were corrupt practices in PC7 selection and everything was kosher? right?

The funny thing is, You wanted me to put a PIL in SC or something, well, looks like CBI might just get some sort of litigation done.
Click to expand...

Sure. Now that we know daal mein kuch kala hain, then we can do something about it.

The idea behind a PIL is to make sure there's something wrong so that the CBI investigates. Now you claim there's a problem with WZTs, then go in for a PIL for this. Once we know something's wrong, we can actually discuss about it.

But if there's potentially nothing wrong and all you want is an investigation, then you are doing nothing but what RaGa did with Rafale even after SC quashed all of his petitions. Simply noise.

I find it funny how people are always jumping and pointing at others while forgetting that in this country there's due process involved. Until then it's all speculation.
 
randomradio said:
Sure. Now that we know daal mein kuch kala hain, then we can do something about it.

The idea behind a PIL is to make sure there's something wrong so that the CBI investigates. Now you claim there's a problem with WZTs, then go in for a PIL for this. Once we know something's wrong, we can actually discuss about it.

But if there's potentially nothing wrong and all you want is an investigation, then you are doing nothing but what RaGa did with Rafale even after SC quashed all of his petitions. Simply noise.

I find it funny how people are always jumping and pointing at others while forgetting that in this country there's due process involved. Until then it's all speculation.
Click to expand...

And unless you are intentionally playing dumb, I am pointing to real issues here on the forum, not just fantastic tales. These issues are not baseless speculations by me, as you can easily see here, and no I am not submitting any PIL's either.
 
Milspec said:
And unless you are intentionally playing dumb, I am pointing to real issues here on the forum, not just fantastic tales. These issues are not baseless speculations by me, as you can easily see here, and no I am not submitting any PIL's either.
Click to expand...

It's only a real issue when people actually investigate for corruption. Until then it's a figment of someone's imagination.

The fact is Pilatus is used world over by pretty much all air forces. So when someone says corruption was involved, it's going to have to be something that sticks.

Here, you just got lucky making a claim. Mainly because there has been a whiff of corruption in Pilatus for many years now, but nobody had found anything that stuck until recently.

I do not go by the "guilty until proven innocent" mantra. When I made my June 11 post that you quoted, nobody was guilty, nobody pressed charges, there was no case. Since June 22, there has been a case. So it's obvious that now I should treat the Pilatus deal as a corruption case, which I am.

So, no, sir, if you want me to jump up and down pointing fingers at everyone and everything just to be one with the mob, then count me out. I'm in the habit of practicing "innocent until proven guilty".
 
  • Like
Reactions: GuardianRED
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom