Taliban wants positive relationship with India, welcomes New Delhi's contribution in Afghanistan

Milspec

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No, no one expected the US to leave the way they did. Hell, not even the Pentagon.
How did US leave Iraq?


What India did was correct in its response. We didn't want to create an environment in Afghanistan which would help unite the factions within Pakistan, and create new problems for both the US and India. Both TTP and Islamic State were working against Pakistan and we didn't want to solve this problem for the Pakistanis. Biden screwed up, big time.
Taliban or Pakistan are not going to transport fighters to Oklahoma, they will send them to Kashmir. Biden doesn't and shouldn't give a shit, it's not his problem. But this shit is happening in our neighborhood. And We fu(ked up big time.


As for Chabahar, as per GoI, it was Iran. They kicked us out of their new gas fields, and then they decided to go slow on Chabahar as well. People wrongly assume we went slow on Chabahar, but it's the opposite. It was both in India's and America's interest for India to develop Chabahar.
I call hogwash, India buckled under US pressure -Especially this particular dispensation did.

As for Russia, they seem to be doing their own thing. We didn't have access from their side anyway.
Wonder why?
 

jetray

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It has nothing to do with will or resources. Even if you do consider resources, we don't have the resources or capability to send troops outside India. At best we can only do special forces operations, but that's not enough, and it's obvious even the US wouldn't have allowed such operations anyway. When there's a will, there's a way doesn't apply to geography.

You guys are forgetting the dynamics at play here. India cannot do anything in Afghanistan without the US, and the US cannot do anything without Pakistan. And Pakistan's assistance came with the caveat that India is not allowed to get involved. Have you guys already forgotten how Pakistan held NATO supplies at ransom a few years ago? Had Pakistan chosen Taliban over the US in 2001, then we would have been playing in Afghanistan as well, having started off with both the Americans and Indians invading Pakistan.
First we dont need to put boots on the ground, even if we want to there is no way we can do it afghanistan. As I said we need a different approach , we certainly can provide tactical intelligence or supply cheap drones which certainly can be used to harass the enemy. We do have a base in tajkistan who certainly can look other way around if provided enuf incentives. Only stumbling block would be russia.

We should dictate our foreign policy not US, depending on US is not just plain stupidity but shows our total incompetency. Its only second rate powers which depend on others get things done. Take the case of pakistan arent they openly supporting taliban and getting their things done. We need to learn few things from them on how to run independent foreign policy in spite of all pressures.

Why should we even damn care what US thinks in afghanistan when they decided to throw every thing under the bus? So what is the US going to do if we support the anti taliban forces ? At the best they will stop selling weapons or send their usual human rights junta after us. If they stop selling weapons we will pay more to get it from russians or chinese will move faster towards displacing US in south east asia. No risk no gain.

By the way India will never invade pakistan it is too much to ask from a country which is simply clueless and inward looking.
 
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Milspec

सर्वदा शक्तिशाली; सर्वत्र विजय
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Frankly India simply does not behave like a power thats need to be reckoned with. Minus the resources our foreign policy is comparable to some small inconsequential country . Either we are totally inward looking or absolutely pathetic in long term strategy.
India cannot look beyond it's elections, and eventually that will be our downfall.


This whole idea of keeping arms length distance from the issues is good until the danger comes home. India will wake up when pakistan starts diverting those experienced taliban fighters to kashmir. Only good thing is that we are better prepared this time compared to 90's.
There was a time when I used to call Pakistanis novice at foriegn policy. That is no longer the case. they have negotiated a fantastic deal from the US. India couldn't even get a cent worth of concession. That is the reality.

If not material at least we should certainly provide tactical support like intelligence, we certainly have satellites that can do the job.

I am sure US will cut & run from south east asia in another 20 years and India will be left wondering what is happening.
Why not material. We did not shy away from sending IL76's full of supplies to Gen Ahmed Shah Massoud. Why didn't we secure a fallback plan for the NA similar to 96.


We were totally outclassed by Pakistan. And some of the blood that will spill in Panjshir is on our hands too. I feel utterly ashamed of our statecraft.
 
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jetray

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Why not material. We did not shy away from sending IL76's full of supplies to Gen Ahmed Shah Massoud. Why didn't we secure a fallback plan for the NA similar to 96.


We were totally outclassed by Pakistan. And some of the blood that will spill in Panjshir is on our hands too. I feel utterly ashamed of our statecraft.
we can send material only two ways either through Iran or tajikistan. Iran certainly will not agree and also pansjhir is far from iran border. That leaves only tajikistan. Only if russia lets us, we can do air drops with risk involved or better get third parties to do the job while we finance the deal. Given that russia & iran are now on talking terms with taliban all our options are closed.

There is point in crying over panjshir valley now it will fall sooner or later. We need to look at other ways like either getting the resistance force into govt or keep them running financially to at least carry out hit & run attrition warfare. They certainly can take leaf from taliban strategy and use it against them.

By the way India never provided military assistance to afghanistan other than those aging helicopters when they were in power, really doubt whether we will do any thing now other than sponsoring few useless protests against the taliban or pakistan.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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How did US leave Iraq?

They deliberately did that in Iraq. Af was a proper fvck up.

Taliban or Pakistan are not going to transport fighters to Oklahoma, they will send them to Kashmir. Biden doesn't and shouldn't give a shit, it's not his problem. But this shit is happening in our neighborhood. And We fu(ked up big time.

So what do you suggest?

I call hogwash, India buckled under US pressure -Especially this particular dispensation did.

Doesn't look like it. The govt wouldn't have constantly advertised milestones in Chabahar if that was the case. Even just one shipping consignment was advertised publicly.

Wonder why?

Geography. We can't link up.
First we dont need to put boots on the ground, even if we want to there is no way we can do it afghanistan. As I said we need a different approach , we certainly can provide tactical intelligence or supply cheap drones which certainly can be used to harass the enemy. We do have a base in tajkistan who certainly can look other way around if provided enuf incentives. Only stumbling block would be russia.

We should dictate our foreign policy not US, depending on US is not just plain stupidity but shows our total incompetency. Its only second rate powers which depend on others get things done. Take the case of pakistan arent they openly supporting taliban and getting their things done. We need to learn few things from them on how to run independent foreign policy in spite of all pressures.

Why should we even damn care what US thinks in afghanistan when they decided to throw every thing under the bus? So what is the US going to do if we support the anti taliban forces ? At the best they will stop selling weapons or send their usual human rights junta after us. If they stop selling weapons we will pay more to get it from russians or chinese will move faster towards displacing US in south east asia. No risk no gain.

By the way India will never invade pakistan it is too much to ask from a country which is simply clueless and inward looking.

You can't do anything in Afghanistan without boots on the ground.
 

jetray

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Mar 15, 2018
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You can't do anything in Afghanistan without boots on the ground.
Given the geography, boots on the ground is not an option. As I said we need to provide tactical intelligence or use some other means.
If taliban idiots screw up iran then we have a good chance, need to see whats cooking in saudi arabia they have been silent so far. Qatar & saudis dont really gel well. We should atleast ensure pakistan gets screwed financially on the economic front,.
If US doesnt agree to that its high time we delinked our foreign policy from them, trade or politics we are not gaining anything.
 

randomradio

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Given the geography, boots on the ground is not an option. As I said we need to provide tactical intelligence or use some other means.
If taliban idiots screw up iran then we have a good chance, need to see whats cooking in saudi arabia they have been silent so far. Qatar & saudis dont really gel well. We should atleast ensure pakistan gets screwed financially on the economic front,.
If US doesnt agree to that its high time we delinked our foreign policy from them, trade or politics we are not gaining anything.

How will any of that help? We do provide money. Tactical intelligence, the Afghans have better intelligence than we do. Rather, we need their help on this, no different from the Americans even after 20 years. The only way to help them is to fight for them. And for that we need troops there. So what alternative are you actually suggesting?

Geopolitics is a different cup of tea. Pak is the only Muslim country with the bomb so it will always get treated well by the GCC. The only benefit we have now is since the US dependency on Pak is gone, we can put the squeeze on Pak's finances internationally. But that allows China to step in even more, and not just into Pakistan, but even Af and Iran.

Our foreign policy is not linked with the US. We only see eye-to-eye in some places, like Afghanistan and China. Just because we have become more friendly in recent years doesn't mean we now take our foreign policy cues from Washington.
 

SrNair

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India cannot look beyond it's elections, and eventually that will be our downfall.



There was a time when I used to call Pakistanis novice at foriegn policy. That is no longer the case. they have negotiated a fantastic deal from the US. India couldn't even get a cent worth of concession. That is the reality.


Why not material. We did not shy away from sending IL76's full of supplies to Gen Ahmed Shah Massoud. Why didn't we secure a fallback plan for the NA similar to 96.


We were totally outclassed by Pakistan. And some of the blood that will spill in Panjshir is on our hands too. I feel utterly ashamed of our statecraft.

From 2010 Americans request us for the military assistance in Afghanistan.
Did we provide that?
Because there is no point in providing the military assistance.Afghanistan is a quagmire and they fight only for tribes .
And Taliban have sufficient support among the Afghans .
If that was the case Americans will scoot like this one way or another and it would become our burden.
And another thing is this is not 90s anymore.
We have Chinese with unlimited coffers to support Taliban.If we give support to NA they will give support to Taliban and situation would remain fluid and on top of that Taliban will have a reason to create problem in Kashmir .

Americans deal was with Taliban .Thats why they give this much weapons to them.
India didnt provide any meaningful fall back plan in 90s also .If that was the case Dr Najibullah wouldnt had to face that fate.
It was literally the NA was ruiling for past 20 years they failed in earning the trusts of people and leaders .

India can meaningfully do something and creates a influence in Afghanistan only if we shares direct border with them.
But it all depends upon the activity of Pakistan.
And daredevil approach from our side.
If they creates worst problems again in valley.
Capture the GB and if posdible PoK
Mobilise entire inventory for that also.
We can shift the possible problems from the valley to there .
But it would be a gambling approach .
 

SrNair

Active member
Mar 12, 2018
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Today's situation is two decades in the making. US was always going to leave, Iraq was a clear giveaway. What did Indian agencies do other than hanging on to US coat tails? Add to that the breather India gave to Pakistan on the borders.

Let's face it, Post Narsimha Rao, most of the dispensations have demonstrated zero clues of strategic affairs. For the past decade and a half neither could we secure direct logistics through chabahar, neither could we convince America of direct military advisors from India within Afghanistan, we couldn't even convince US from not abandoning Drone strikes in Pakistan which was extremely effective. We gave up on Russian hedge to ensure Panshir and NA could have fall back defences.


Absolutely Pathetic.

Are we ready to stationed the Indian military in Afghanistan ?
What would we possibly can do if we cant supply our forces there .?
Americans was depending Pakistan for supplies.
Had the GB with us whatever you said had some meaning .
It would only help in strengthning of Pak lobbies in Taliban if we intervene.

All of your points were valid if we had direct border with Afghanistan.
At the current scenario we are right .
No, no one expected the US to leave the way they did. Hell, not even the Pentagon. What India did was correct in its response. We didn't want to create an environment in Afghanistan which would help unite the factions within Pakistan, and create new problems for both the US and India. Both TTP and Islamic State were working against Pakistan and we didn't want to solve this problem for the Pakistanis. Biden screwed up, big time.

As for Chabahar, as per GoI, it was Iran. They kicked us out of their new gas fields, and then they decided to go slow on Chabahar as well. People wrongly assume we went slow on Chabahar, but it's the opposite. It was both in India's and America's interest for India to develop Chabahar.

As for Russia, they seem to be doing their own thing. We didn't have access from their side anyway.

And we can't teleport.



It has nothing to do with will or resources. Even if you do consider resources, we don't have the resources or capability to send troops outside India. At best we can only do special forces operations, but that's not enough, and it's obvious even the US wouldn't have allowed such operations anyway. When there's a will, there's a way doesn't apply to geography.

You guys are forgetting the dynamics at play here. India cannot do anything in Afghanistan without the US, and the US cannot do anything without Pakistan. And Pakistan's assistance came with the caveat that India is not allowed to get involved. Have you guys already forgotten how Pakistan held NATO supplies at ransom a few years ago? Had Pakistan chosen Taliban over the US in 2001, then we would have been playing in Afghanistan as well, having started off with both the Americans and Indians invading Pakistan.

Americans wont do anything without any plan .
It was all the part of plan.
 

randomradio

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Americans wont do anything without any plan .
It was all the part of plan.

They should have at least reduced the country into a civil war instead of simply handing over the country to the Taliban. Propping up, arming, training and funding anti-Talib forces should have been done a year before the wirthdrawal.

While leaving Afghanistan was part of the plan, it doesn't look like what's actually happening in Afghanistan was planned.
 

SrNair

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Mar 12, 2018
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They should have at least reduced the country into a civil war instead of simply handing over the country to the Taliban. Propping up, arming, training and funding anti-Talib forces should have been done a year before the wirthdrawal.

While leaving Afghanistan was part of the plan, it doesn't look like what's actually happening in Afghanistan was planned.

US and their agencies was doing different kind of subvertive activities for decades.Their intelligence used all kind of shits in different nations.
But they didnt know about ANA and Taliban?
Can you believe that?
Suppose we agree with what you are saying .
US still can bomb and destroy all equipments if they want instead the planned another drama there .
US was literally handed over the Afghanistan to Pakistan and China to deal.
And their dealings was with Taliban even Afghan Govt wasnt invited.They knows inside out of Afghanistan.

We can see a larger picture here .Even if Taliban comes now the neighbouring Iran,China etc will be suspicious .Taliban attacked NA but IS and AQ is still there even TTP pledged the alliance ..So various nations can play games there through various games.
Recently Iran was really become an opponent of Israel .Did you actually think Israel wont look to another plan?
Russians knows all these possibilitiesand they knows the Americans also
 

screambowl

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We can't do anything since Afghanistan is landlocked

You can build around Afghanistan. Central Asia region. Pakistan has already started doing that to check mate any Indian move there, as always Indians are thakele budde. Pakistanis can think one step ahead why can't Indian. Or Indians are obsessed with showing their debating skills on forums and TV shows and news hours but in the name of action and decision making 'NIL'.

this was two weeks ago.
 

screambowl

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US and their agencies was doing different kind of subvertive activities for decades.Their intelligence used all kind of shits in different nations.
But they didnt know about ANA and Taliban?
Can you believe that?
Suppose we agree with what you are saying .
US still can bomb and destroy all equipments if they want instead the planned another drama there .
US was literally handed over the Afghanistan to Pakistan and China to deal.
And their dealings was with Taliban even Afghan Govt wasnt invited.They knows inside out of Afghanistan.

Time for India to move closer to Russians once again. Because no matter what the US will help Pakistan.
 

SrNair

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Mar 12, 2018
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You can build around Afghanistan. Central Asia region. Pakistan has already started doing that to check mate any Indian move there, as always Indians are thakele budde. Pakistanis can think one step ahead why can't Indian. Or Indians are obsessed with showing their debating skills on forums and TV shows and news hours but in the name of action and decision making 'NIL'.

this was two weeks ago.
Surely they can visit and talk no expense at all.
They are trying settle everything for China .
Iran already began to play against Pak interests .
This entire drama is already messed up already .
Even Chinese are not active like Pakistan.
We are doing right thing now.
Just keep quiet and watch .
 

SrNair

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Time for India to move closer to Russians once again. Because no matter what the US will help Pakistan.
And what Russians can possibly do?
They are even smaller economy than us and no matter how much we tried they are under the influence of Chinese.

We should have our own plan.
For US, Pakistan is not relevant at all.
Indian agencies knows the nature of Afghans.
 
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randomradio

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You can build around Afghanistan. Central Asia region. Pakistan has already started doing that to check mate any Indian move there, as always Indians are thakele budde. Pakistanis can think one step ahead why can't Indian. Or Indians are obsessed with showing their debating skills on forums and TV shows and news hours but in the name of action and decision making 'NIL'.

this was two weeks ago.

Building around Af basically means developing both Iran and Pakistan. We are obviously not going to invest in Pak. Otoh, Iran is getting closer to China because of the potential investments China can make into Iran at this time. After stopping oil imports from Iran, our main economic relations today are restricted to using Iran for goods transit to Europe.
 

screambowl

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Building around Af basically means developing both Iran and Pakistan
Yes and that's how it is done? That shouldn't be new. And not just Iran , include Tajikistan, and other CAR. Finally if China interferes and disturbs India through Taliban, then you should know where their most oil pipelines are. India should be ready.


And what Russians can possibly do?
Give India intelligence on China and not just that they can give better access to India in central Asia region.

If your adversary builds a fort you have to build a fort around it with better infrastructure
 

screambowl

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