Sukhoi Su-30MKI

[Speedster1]

There were plans for a flush-mounted
conformal weapons bay within the nascelle tunnel, but it did not go anywhere, performance was trash

I'd imagine the Soviets tried to borrow similar ideas from the F-15E. But they likely lost interest since they had
other progs like Su-27IB (later Su-34) underway.

Otoh, the Su-27UB variant, which the Su-30 model evolved from, was originally only meant to be a 2 seat type trainer. Imo, if EWP were viable, we'd have seen them on just about every 4G/4.5G combat ac by now.

 

[randomradio]

I'd imagine the Soviets tried to borrow similar ideas from the F-15E. But they likely lost interest since they had
other progs like Su-27IB (later Su-34) underway.

Otoh, the Su-27UB variant, which the Su-30 model evolved from, was originally only meant to be a 2 seat type trainer.

The Soviets already had a history of making a strike jet from an ASF, like Mig-23 and Mig-27, before the F-15. Or even the Mig-21K, but it lost to the Su-25.

There are two distinct families of the Su-30. Both derived from Su-27UB, which later became Su-27PU. The PU was modernized into an ASF called Su-30MK by Irkut. From there, Irkut created the Su-30MKI family as an ASF and KNAAPO created the Su-30MKK for ground strike.

KNAAPO made an ASF version called Su-35UB, but the Chinese rejected it 'cause India had the same version from Irkut (canards, TVC, Bars radar etc).

Imo, if EWP were viable, we'd have seen them on just about every 4G/4.5G combat ac by now.

Yeah. It's not worth the effort compared to the real deal. Every time an option came up, it was to displace a more advanced jet. Like the Su-47/Mig-1.44 in SU and F/A-XX and F-47 in the US.

Rafale was supposed to get it, but their stealth tech took care of that.

One of the biggest dangers of the pod is you end up carrying too much weight and it's difficult to get rid of during emergencies. And you have to lug them around even in dog fights against a clean enemy if you intend to save them. It puts pilots in a ridiculous position. And all for a minimal reduction in RCS.

 

[Rajput Lion]

I agree there are advantages to replacing metallic airframe parts (canards, airbrake, nose cone et all) with lighter, more durable composites. Applied RAM treatments are also par for the course.

Reducing MKI's RCS has been one of the prime focus of our scientists.

If you recall I have been hankering (fwiw) for the IAF to fit band pass/RSS radome, conformal weapons stns on the MKI.

The new black radome it has got might be FSS. If not, then UPG. will most definitely get one.

But I later realized that the cost would probably be too high for the benefits accrued.

Keeping MKI cutting-edge is paramount for IAF. Everything else is secondary.

Plus HAL would've had to seek permission from the oem for a deep structural upgrade as it would void warranties, etc.

They didn't seek permission for BrahMos integration! Did they?

That said, I was pleasantly surprised to learn that they are working on RAS elements for MKI UPG.

People here thought that composites in MKI would only be for weight savings. But these RAS panels DRDO has developed for MKI is to reduce MKI's RCS substantially. Plus, there are other nano-material/meta-material based RAP.

If the Russians are indeed integrating EWP on the Su-35SM, it's reasonable to expect that the MKI might someday get them too. Just that I couldn't find any open source info on this.

I have said here plenty of stuff here which came out in public after some time. So, till then, just wait and watch

 

[Speedster1]

The new black radome it has got might be FSS. If not, then UPG. will most definitely get one.

Unlikely, imo. The pitot tube would likely interfere with the performance of such a radome.

Keeping MKI cutting-edge is paramount for IAF. Everything else is secondary.

With the Virupaksha radar and MUM-T, the MKI will finally assume the role of mini-awacs/C2 node that it had been intended to fill. It will also haul big stick ALBMs, HCMs and VLRAAMs like the R-37M/Astra Mk3/Sky Sting.

But I do not think it will be flying dpsa missions, esp against the PLA. Before we go to exotic RAS, the jet could definitely use a decent set of MAWS, towed decoy and if possible, DIRCM.

They didn't seek permission for BrahMos integration! Did they?

Replacing airframe structure is a whole different ball game. If Sukhoi objects, HAL would be contractually bound to obey. The Russians might look the other way for the right price, though.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Unlikely, imo. The pitot tube would likely interfere with the performance of such a radome.

Even a FSS Radome can be designed with pitot tubes. It's not out of realms.

With the Virupaksha radar and MUM-T, the MKI will finally assume the role of mini-awacs/C2 node that it had been intended to fill. It will also haul big stick ALBMs, HCMs and VLRAAMs like the R-37M/Astra Mk3/Sky Sting.

Another claim which I made which no one beileved that MKI UPG. with Virupaksha/Uttam MK3 and our new Dual-Band IRST would be a dedicated stealth hunter. It's being designed to track -20dBsm targets from as far as 200 kms. Possibilities for MKI UPG. are numerous with the aforementioned upgrades.

But I do not think it will be flying dpsa missions, esp against the PLA. Before we go to exotic RAS, the jet could definitely use a decent set of MAWS, towed decoy and if possible, DIRCM.

MKI is getting these low RCS treatment to thwart PLAAF VLO intrusion backed by our AI-networked IADS. Deep Strike missions would be handled by Rafale along with Su-57M2I, AMCA, Ghatak etc.

Replacing airframe structure is a whole different ball game. If Sukhoi objects, HAL would be contractually bound to obey. The Russians might look the other way for the right price, though.

We can do anything to MKI as we want. Replacing metal panels with composite panels was also part of original contract which we signed with Russians. So no issues here.

 

[Speedster1]

Even a FSS Radome can be designed with pitot tubes. It's not out of realms.

To be clear, I'm talking about metallic nose-mounted pitot tubes. They typically don't gell well with FSS. No modern 4.5G jet including the Su-35S has those.

We can do anything to MKI as we want. Replacing metal panels with composite panels was also part of original contract which we signed with Russians. So no issues here.

Sukhoi can simply refuse certification which would in turn impact warranties and support T&C. We don't have IPR or even the know-why for many things on the jet.

The IAF would intervene long before things got out of hand.

 

[Aniruddha]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2034615424781000942

IAF better order another 54-72 aircraft, otherwise this production line will again turn dormant after barely a year of operation.
It's in their best interest.

 

[Hydra]

IAF better order another 54-72 aircraft, otherwise this production line will again turn dormant after barely a year of operation.
It's in their best interest.

We must oreder more than that, but not the current MKI. It should be new version, till the new version arrives IAF can place order for minimum aircrafts to keep the line alive.

 

[lmaoxd]

We must oreder more than that, but not the current MKI. It should be new version, till the new version arrives IAF can place order for minimum aircrafts to keep the line alive.

why not just use this line for the super 30 upgrade? Is it not the current plan? The IAF doesnt seem keen on too many su30MKIs since theyre pretty damn expensive to operate vs the rafales and especially the tejasmk1a(whenever that arrives in enough numbers).

 

[Aniruddha]

why not just use this line for the super 30 upgrade? Is it not the current plan? The IAF doesnt seem keen on too many su30MKIs since theyre pretty damn expensive to operate vs the rafales and especially the tejasmk1a(whenever that arrives in enough numbers).

Isn't the upgrade going to be eventually carried out by BRD with consultation from HAL?
Also, per hour flying costs of the Rafale and Su30 aren't that much different, obviously the maintenance upkeep on a Russian platform is higher than that from the West

 

[lmaoxd]

Isn't the upgrade going to be eventually carried out by BRD with consultation from HAL?
Also, per hour flying costs of the Rafale and Su30 aren't that much different, obviously the maintenance upkeep on a Russian platform is higher than that from the West

nah not really, the rafale has much lower fuel load and a lot lower structural fatigue per hour of flight compared to the su30s. So while its lower its like 60-70% of the su30 per hour flight cost

 

[Hydra]

why not just use this line for the super 30 upgrade? Is it not the current plan? The IAF doesnt seem keen on too many su30MKIs since theyre pretty damn expensive to operate vs the rafales and especially the tejasmk1a(whenever that arrives in enough numbers).

I am not flavouring more MKI too, i even used to say in a contested airspace HAL Tejas will have more survivability than MKI, still beleiving . But that doesn't means that we should close that line, rather we should make more advanced variants just like what chinese are doing. And we need an EW attack MKI.

 

[lmaoxd]

I am not flavouring more MKI too, i even used to say in a contested airspace HAL Tejas will have more survivability than MKI, still beleiving . But that doesn't means that we should close that line, rather we should make more advanced variants just like what chinese are doing. And we need an EW attack MKI.

the more advanced variants would simply be more structurally and electronically upgraded su30mki. We dont need more su30s. Also dont compare us with China, they have significantly more money and a significantly higher manufacturing industry that allows them to churn out j16s and j11s. Our heavy capability in numbers is fine for now but we desperately need upgrades to the su30mki. As for numbers we need more MWF and LCAs not HWFs. If we do buy significantly more HWFs it will be for 5th gen(su57 prolly).

 

[Hydra]

the more advanced variants would simply be more structurally and electronically upgraded su30mki. We dont need more su30s. Also dont compare us with China, they have significantly more money and a significantly higher manufacturing industry that allows them to churn out j16s and j11s. Our heavy capability in numbers is fine for now but we desperately need upgrades to the su30mki. As for numbers we need more MWF and LCAs not HWFs. If we do buy significantly more HWFs it will be for 5th gen(su57 prolly).

Their ecenomy was in similar condition to us when they were doing the ground work of J11 & J16.

 

[Aniruddha]

the more advanced variants would simply be more structurally and electronically upgraded su30mki. We dont need more su30s. Also dont compare us with China, they have significantly more money and a significantly higher manufacturing industry that allows them to churn out j16s and j11s. Our heavy capability in numbers is fine for now but we desperately need upgrades to the su30mki. As for numbers we need more MWF and LCAs not HWFs. If we do buy significantly more HWFs it will be for 5th gen(su57 prolly).

Another 54-72 Su30 MKI isn't doing any harm.
I mean with 260 Su30 in service, the IAF is already top heavy, but on the flipside it's the only chain for which an assembly line has been reopened and which is less susceptible to supply chain shocks (period).
114 Rafales is going to significant restrict CAPEX allocation for procurement of Tejas Mk2 for a few years and we are still seeing supply chain issues with the Tejas Mk1A.
So in order to have a continuous stream of aircraft being inducted, a few additional Su30 MKI isn't doing any harm IMO

 

[Rajput Lion]

why not just use this line for the super 30 upgrade? Is it not the current plan? The IAF doesnt seem keen on too many su30MKIs since theyre pretty damn expensive to operate vs the rafales and especially the tejasmk1a(whenever that arrives in enough numbers).

More MKI UPGs. would be most welcome by IAF. MKI is not only our "air dominance fighter", it's also our tactical-bomber as well. Older airframes being converted for BrahMos-A carrier while IAF gets brand new airframe of UPG. standard ain't such a bad thing.

The same or parallel Nashik line should translate into 2-seat Su-57 M2I/60MKI line as well.

 

[ShiroBarks]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2034615424781000942

AESA DcPP thing was posted here, it's same old su30 with some improvements, best guess. Nothing official. 40 months, AESA is still far away

IMO: Should order more Su30s, nothing offers as much range as them, not Rafale either. + BrahMos + Can integrate pretty much anything

We have requirements, 42 squadrons is an old number

 

[randomradio]

They didn't seek permission for BrahMos integration! Did they?

Brahmos integration was different, all HAL did was add a new hardpoint.

Sukhoi has threatened to revoke certification if changes are made to the airframe, that's why no internal MAWS. That's why only secondary and non-critical structures could be changed into composites.

If we are to change critical metal parts to composites and add RAS, we will have to involve Sukhoi for recertification.

Not only will Sukhoi have to do it, we will also have to take it through a complete cycle of design, engineering, flight testing, IOC, FOC etc, the entire development cycle. That's essentially a whole new aircraft, like the J-16. And will cost a lot and more than half a decade before we can MLU it. No one's doing all that.

The only thing announced to date was the addition of RAM coating that will increase weight by 50-100 kg. That's it.

 

[randomradio]

With the Virupaksha radar and MUM-T, the MKI will finally assume the role of mini-awacs/C2 node that it had been intended to fill.

MKI was always capable of acting as mini-AWACS, but it has nothing to do with radar. The MKIs carried Russian patrol links from the beginning. It could communicate with 3 other MKIs, which may have been further enhanced to cover more aircraft. Now BNET takes over some of that function. That connectivity made it a mini-AWACS.

 

[randomradio]

IAF better order another 54-72 aircraft, otherwise this production line will again turn dormant after barely a year of operation.
It's in their best interest.

Doubt that will happen.

Either a push towards export clearance for MKI or Su-57 production.

The IAF doesn't have to cater to HAL's whims and fancies.