Unlikely the Brits would try that over our waters/shores, imo. They'd be wary of being tracked by ground-based SIGINT/ELINT. In any case, they'd need permission from DC to go full stealth vs non-NATO AFs like ours.
Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
Well even with AWACS midcourse updates, high launch altitude and good launch angle its low? Not even 50%? Of course DRFM and ew of target can degrade kill probability, but for advanced AESA seeker equipped BVRMs with great ECCM and robust mid course updates should have a decent chance?
It will definitely increase the chances, but i still wouldn't call it a high chance against an alert target fighter.
Because just as the fighter jet get alerts about bvr being launched at it the pilot( unless insane or retard) will immediately turn his fighter around, drop payload and engage afterburner/afterburners.
Not sure if F-35B were full stealth or using luneburg lens.
No Luneburg Lens but they were indeed carrying two ASRAAMs on outer wing pylons. In this configuration, F-35's RCS though reduced from fully clean configuration is still very very low. So what MKI did was simply outstanding.
GaN also requires less cooling vis-a-vis GaAs TRMs as its thermal efficiency is far better. By the time Virupaksha goes into production, I'm hoping we increase the total TRM count to 2700(from current 2400), with each TRM having over 20W+ power and our VCM cooling to handle such heat.
Target for Virupaksha is to track(yes track not only detect), -20dBsm(0.01m^2) target from 200 kms away. Recently one Chinese engineer revealed that the RCS of J-35 is like a sparrow(so in -20dBsm ballpark). J-35 is their latest jet and is supposed to be more stealthy that the canarded J-20.
So how we are looking to counter these Chinese 5th gen jets with MKI? By increasing MKI's active sensor(radar) reach to track them over 200kms away. Also by using a super IRST(dual-band), which can also track these jets around 200kms). But IAF/DRDO know that MKI's own signature needs to reduce as well. So entire MKI's Al skin is going to be replaced with CNT based composite RAM panels(along with other stuff that can't be revealed here), which will bring its clean RCS closer to -15dBsm and loaded RCS will substantially reduce too. It will fight and vanquish all Chinese 5th gen jets. Mark it.
Interesting , they are going put that thing in a fighter jet. Need to see how they will do the component assembly.
It will depend on how integrated our kill chain is. Provided we have Kusha SAM, Netra Mk1A and Mk2 AWACS as well along with Super Sukhois with Gandivas and they're all networked against the Cheenis, we have a chance even against their stealth 5th Gen assets. Heck with such a network Tejas Mk2 and Mk1A with Gandiva and Astra MK2 ER also have strong capabilities against PLAAF formations. The future belongs to those who can see the furthest and shoot the furthest along with integrating the most systems together.
Super Sukhoi and Tejas Mk2 with Gandivas will be the real gamechager moment for IAF. But all of the above will not happen en masse before 2035. By 2030 hopefully Virupaksha will be in advanced stages of testing and limited deployment, Gandiva in LSP and Kusha also in LSP.
Rcs reduction alone won't be enough for MKI to stand a chance against J-20/35 imo. It will need cognitive EW and third-party target updates (CCA, AWACS, satellite, etc). DRDO is already working on cognitive EW tech, not sure about TP targeting, though.
RCS reduction plus GaN radar plus Dual-Band IRST plus:
All of these
IAF's Su-30MKIs arriving at Gran Canaria, Spain for Exercise OceanSky25:
Some videos in this thread:
Notice the black all composite radomes.
Some videos in this thread:
Notice the black all composite radomes.
Looks like they're implementing this Narrowband FSS radome entire fleetwise, which is very good. The biggest source(s) of radar return on MKI are the two exposed engines and the straight BARS radar. Replacing earlier gray coloured radome(which looked better, lol) with this black composite one shall reduce its frontal return quite a lot.
This tells us how much both IAF & DRDO are serious about reducing MKI's RCS.
Most current 4.5 gen fighters like the Euro-Canards have around 0.1m^2 clean frontal RCS and fully loaded RCS(with 6 missiles and 2/3 EFTs) of around 2.0m^2 - 2.5m^2. Since MKI UPG. is being touted as 4.7 gen or minus-5 gen fighter, the target for loaded UPG "should" be between -15dBsm to -10dBsm. Though this figure is highly dynamic. Let's see.
PS: The real RCS is classified and will never come out in a public forum(nor it should either).
More photos from the exercise:
Video:
Video:
The state of this forum......!!!!
When it comes to reducing an aircraft's radar cross section, the most important factor is stealth shaping. Stealth shaping is used in conjunction with Radar Absorbing Structure (RAS) [where RAMs are embedded in the polymeric composite matrix] to achieve optimal results. Using just the radar absorbing structures without any change in shaping has marginal effect on the overall RCS of any aircraft. Otherwise what was the point of 5th gen aircraft???? which are expensive to develop & buy but also expensive to maintain.
here is some literature to read on this topic..............
Radar crossection area reduction techniques
This document summarizes a seminar report on recent trends in radar cross-section (RCS) reduction techniques from 2018-2019. It discusses various RCS reduction methods including shaping of aircraft surfaces, use of radar absorbent materials, and active and passive cancellation techniques...
www.slideshare.net
I dont think you have thought your point through here. If it was so easy to reduce RCS of an a/c by just changing the materials used then everyone would have continued building the same old F-18s or Su-30s with these materials instead of investing billions into optimally shaped aircraft. The biggest factors for such a large RCS on Su-30s are its exposed turbine inlets, spherical canopy & body hotspots. None of that changes when you apply composites, so what are you talking about???
the cringe i felt while reading that sentence.
To suggest fighting chinese 5th gen a/c with an upgraded su-30.....just incredible!!!!
People will write wildest fantasies on here.
You can't fight 5th gen with a 4.5 gen aircraft and expect a win, maybe the win may come once in a lifetime,
The weapons on pylon, the engine configuration, less stealth shaping, will give away your position by hundreds of kilometres, unless you doge all the BVR missiles somehow, there's no chance of survival,
Or bulid your network IACCS so strong that, you can get the cuing on target from your Radar & space assets, so you get a firing solution & stand a chance against them,
The weapons on pylon, the engine configuration, less stealth shaping, will give away your position by hundreds of kilometres, unless you doge all the BVR missiles somehow, there's no chance of survival,
Or bulid your network IACCS so strong that, you can get the cuing on target from your Radar & space assets, so you get a firing solution & stand a chance against them,
That's literally the entire point, the era of fighter vs fighter is looooong gone. It will be networks vs networks, whoever has the most integrated network will gain the edge. Super Sukhoi, Tejas Mk2, Mk1A networked with AWACS, satellites, ground radars and with each other absolutely do stand a chance against 5th gen platforms on the other side. 5th gen platforms obviously have the advantage of VLO which means they have the see first shoot first see advantage which can be mitigated by keeping 4.5 gen fighters even further away from enemy lines and making them fire using stand off weapons and long range BVRMs such as Gandiva. 5th gen fighters cannot accommodate long range BVRM of 300-400 km in their IWB and thus can only stealthily strike maybe up to 250 km.
