Sukhoi Su-30MKI

Shan said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1935740967208055205
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5 years + EXCLUSIVELY to test & certify an EW system ??! And look at the Terms of Payment. How do they expect pvt cos to sustain operations if they don't finance R&D & then pay only 50% after 5 years ?

This is the same MO our armed forces pursue with DPSUs. At this rate the Pvt Sector will fold up & business will revert to the DPSUs by default.

How long will they take for the rest of the upgrades given they aren't even running MLU for other items concurrently ?! No wonder the entire program for the MLU of the MKI is ~ 16 years. This is actually the T/Ls for development of a new FA.
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
5 years + EXCLUSIVELY to test & certify an EW system ??! And look at the Terms of Payment. How do they expect pvt cos to sustain operations if they don't finance R&D & then pay only 50% after 5 years ?

This is the same MO our armed forces pursue with DPSUs. At this rate the Pvt Sector will fold up & business will revert to the DPSUs by default.

How long will they take for the rest of the upgrades given they aren't even running MLU for other items concurrently ?! No wonder the entire program for the MLU of the MKI is ~ 16 years. This is actually the T/Ls for development of a new FA.
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A good MAWS is perhaps the MKIs biggest weakness atm. EW suite should have been a rapid prototyping effort, esp after Op Sindoor.
 
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Speedster1 said:
A good MAWS is perhaps the MKIs biggest weakness atm.
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We may already be using podded MAWS on MKIs. Plenty of stuff is kept secret about MKI as it's our primary ASF and a national asset. Integrated MAWS would only come in UPG. variants, IMO.
Speedster1 said:
EW suite should have been a rapid prototyping effort, esp after Op Sindoor.
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The current DR118 combined with SAP 514 MKI & SAP14 is no joke either. We may also be using EL/L-8222SB in MKIs. It's a GaN based wide-band jamner. Of course, with next gen EW suite consisting of Anidra super-digital RWR(intercept & geo-locate ESM window of 1 GHz to 40GHz) and Yodha wingtip HBJs pod(jamming capability of 5-18GHz RF waves), its EW capabilities would see a significant jump. But what we have currently(Dhruti) is also very good and state-of-the-art nonetheless.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
We may already be using podded MAWS on MKIs. Plenty of stuff is kept secret about MKI as it's our primary ASF and a national asset.
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Unlikely. We'd have seen some pics or perhaps a hint from DARE/CASIDIC by now. Afaik, we already produce EADS MILDS MAWS under license for helos. It has a variant for fast jets too.

A podded solution in the same form factor as the SIVA HADF pod (extensively trailed on MKI) could be a temporary option, imo.
 
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Speedster1 said:
It seems workshare negotiations between HAL and Irkut/UAC are not yet complete. Russia will try to drive a hard bargain but we must stick to our guns.

If AL-41F is selected, expect a few more years of delays over pricing and ToT/IP.
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Delay part is inevitable, question is why after shelving plan for engine upgrade for years now suddenly new decision after placing 240 engines order , which will take 10-12 years for delivery. Then used on jets maybe total cover say 15 years from today. That itself restricts no of super upgrade engine airframes ? unless they want to use the jets for another 15-20 years after 15 years from today ? That extends service till past 2055 easily. not sure airframe can handle such long duty?
 
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marich01 said:
Delay part is inevitable, question is why after shelving plan for engine upgrade for years now suddenly new decision after placing 240 engines order , which will take 10-12 years for delivery. Then used on jets maybe total cover say 15 years from today. That itself restricts no of super upgrade engine airframes ? unless they want to use the jets for another 15-20 years after 15 years from today ? That extends service till past 2055 easily. not sure airframe can handle such long duty?
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We have 260 su30mki.
With 84+12 new super sukhoi.
This leaves, 260-84= 176su30mki not being upgraded to super sukhoi standard.
240 engines will replace existing engines of 120 su30mki, those 120 can very well be from 176 su30mki, not the 84 +12 super sukhois.
 
babablacksheep said:
We have 260 su30mki.
With 84+12 new super sukhoi.
This leaves, 260-84= 176su30mki not being upgraded to super sukhoi standard.
240 engines will replace existing engines of 120 su30mki, those 120 can very well be from 176 su30mki, not the 84 +12 super sukhois.
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I hope they have a good plan in mind , current one seems to me rather haphazard & bit whimsical. We do not know whether this comes from MoD itself or IAF or due to recent events , but certainly some reactive pattern can be spotted.
 
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Speedster1 said:
It seems workshare negotiations between HAL and Irkut/UAC are not yet complete. Russia will try to drive a hard bargain but we must stick to our guns.

If AL-41F is selected, expect a few more years of delays over pricing and ToT/IP.
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New engine would allow for more electrical power, better kinematics and even limited supercruise(with light air-to-air load). Let's see what the final UPG. configuration shapes out to be.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
New engine would allow for more electrical power, better kinematics and even limited supercruise(with light air-to-air load). Let's see what the final UPG. configuration shapes out to be.
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The AL-41 is already flying on Ru Su-30SM2 so there should be no integration challenges. I suspect our FinMin may throw a fit if the cost increases beyond a point and that may derail the whole prog (A330 MRTT redux). The IAF might have to cut the first UPG tranche to 40 from 84 to keep her happy. That could stretch delivery timelines. Ugrading jets closer to EOL may not be cost-effective either.
 
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marich01 said:
Delay part is inevitable, question is why after shelving plan for engine upgrade for years now suddenly new decision after placing 240 engines order
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It may just be a Russian proposal under IAF consideration. From Russia's pov, it is a chance to push for more workshare for their companies + ToT/MRO services. The IAF must weigh the cost against incremental performance gains from AL-41.

Imo, the Russians should've sent a couple of Su-30SM2 along with Su-57 to AI-25. It might have helped move things forward.
 
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Speedster1 said:
It may just be a Russian proposal under IAF consideration. From Russia's pov, it is a chance to push for more workshare for their companies + ToT/MRO services. The IAF must weigh the cost against incremental performance gains from AL-41.

Imo, the Russians should've sent a couple of Su-30SM2 along with Su-57 to AI-25. It might have helped move things forward.
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IAF, just like navy will say decision is up to MoD aka the political stakeholder will decide. This is what happens in every case. MRFA MMRCA any direct import if ever happens will be G2G. Govt side makes decision and simply directs certain Govt agency to complete the job. Same thing happening with the G2G radar deal, they will order defence psu to take the workshare part.

Basically, the final decision is not what IAF want or would have preferred. The final decision is as always what the political stakeholder side want. In this regard, should they suddenly go with engine upgrade that was never on the card before, then something serious has happened we are not aware of. It is also possible that such a decision was always due but Govt wanted some incident to happen before greenlighting the process.
 
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marich01 said:
IAF, just like navy will say decision is up to MoD aka the political stakeholder will decide. This is what happens in every case. MRFA MMRCA any direct import if ever happens will be G2G. Govt side makes decision and simply directs certain Govt agency to complete the job. Same thing happening with the G2G radar deal, they will order defence psu to take the workshare part.

Basically, the final decision is not what IAF want or would have preferred. The final decision is as always what the political stakeholder side want. In this regard, should they suddenly go with engine upgrade that was never on the card before, then something serious has happened we are not aware of. It is also possible that such a decision was always due but Govt wanted some incident to happen before greenlighting the process.
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Sir what are some things which potentially made government to go with engine upgrade? I am specifically referring to the incident you mentioned. Like what would have made them change their decision?
 
marich01 said:
IAF, just like navy will say decision is up to MoD aka the political stakeholder will decide. This is what happens in every case. MRFA MMRCA any direct import if ever happens will be G2G. Govt side makes decision and simply directs certain Govt agency to complete the job. Same thing happening with the G2G radar deal, they will order defence psu to take the workshare part.
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This is an MLU program, not the same as buying a new jet. We shouldn't concede too much workshare to Russian firms at the expense of Indian cos is all I'm saying. If we can limit the scope to just the avionics and sensors for the 1st tranche, MKI UPG might get signed sooner. The IAF is still flying Jags powered by Adour engines after the deal for Honeywell F-125 didn't work out and those DPSAs really are underpowered.
 
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Has anyone seen the original upload of this? if one looks at 04:25 to 04:50 there is a cut/jump.

In the original (the box after the patch panel), a certain French weapon was undergoing integration with Su30
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1941039227367817374
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Some fanboy wrote this.

There is nothing called "Super Sukhoi Program" in indian parlance. It was an offer made by Sukhoi Design Bureau more than a decade back. Somehow the name clicked for the outsiders.

No one has confirmed the choice of R-37M yet. The upgrade will only begin after 7 years of development, which means that by that time we will have Astra mk3.

This MLU is about avionics. There was never even a discussion about switching engines. All stories about the AL-41 are from outsiders and lack substance.
 
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