Killbot

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Jun 3, 2019
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Rs.780cr roughly translates to $105mn which is $1470 per rifle. The previous ones costed us in the range of $1000-1100 which are DI (716i Tread). Why is this more expensive given the same number being procured unless this is the short stroke piston variant (G2 Patrol)
Including ammo and spares..? And its gonna be the same 716i variant.. G2 costs around $1900... I could be wrong
 

zapper

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Oct 10, 2019
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Including ammo and spares..? And its gonna be the same 716i variant.. G2 costs around $1900... I could be wrong
Yeah the G2 costs around that unless we're getting some discount due to the numbers and this being the second order. But I highly doubt that's gonna happen since MoD babus and IA's corrupt top brass always end up paying more

Secondly, it'd be a dumb decision to go with 7.62 ammo...it couldn't get any more basic than that unless OFBs are also producing shoddy ammo similar to their artillery shells which busted the barrels of M777, Dhanush and most recently - ATAGS
 

Killbot

Member
Jun 3, 2019
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82
Bangalore
Yeah the G2 costs around that unless we're getting some discount due to the numbers and this being the second order. But I highly doubt that's gonna happen since MoD babus and IA's corrupt top brass always end up paying more

Secondly, it'd be a dumb decision to go with 7.62 ammo...it couldn't get any more basic than that unless OFBs are also producing shoddy ammo similar to their artillery shells which busted the barrels of M777, Dhanush and most recently - ATAGS
They're importing ammo as well.
And why would they go for a different weapon system (DI vs SSP) if they liked the first one... Well its still okay as the 716 is a great gun.
 

Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
11,671
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Tripura, NE, India
From D. F. I. :

INSAS Machine gun
1601371342241.png


Is this new ? The bipod & stock are rather ugly, otherwise not bad looking.
 

Parthu

Gessler
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Dec 1, 2017
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Rs.780cr roughly translates to $105mn which is $1470 per rifle. The previous ones costed us in the range of $1000-1100 which are DI (716i Tread). Why is this more expensive given the same number being procured unless this is the short stroke piston variant (G2 Patrol)

Per what I remember, SIG had offered to sell upto 50% more of the original contracted number (meaning 36,200 more) in a follow-on deal at the same price as agreed for the initial contract ($990 per gun, not counting peripheral equipment like training aids, extra magazines etc.). However any more orders over & above those 36k would have to be purchased at a higher price closer to the retail price of the gun, as its no longer considered competing in a competitive commercial bid.

From D. F. I. :

INSAS Machine gun
View attachment 17958

Is this new ? The bipod & stock are rather ugly, otherwise not bad looking.

That's an M240L - a modified, lighter variant of the M240B which is used as general-purpose MG by US military. M240 itself a modernized FN MAG (on which OFB's 7.62 LMG is also based). It's not even remotely related to INSAS design and action.
 
Last edited:

zapper

Active member
Oct 10, 2019
269
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Per what I remember, SIG had offered to sell upto 50% more of the original contracted number (meaning 36,200 more) in a follow-on deal at the same price as agreed for the initial contract ($990 per gun, not counting peripheral equipment like training aids, extra magazines etc.). However any more orders over & above those 36k would have to be purchased at a higher price closer to the retail price of the gun, as its no longer considered competing in a competitive commercial bid.
Assuming we pay retail ($1250-1350) for the remaining 36k rifles, that'd be (36k*$1k)+(36k*$1.3k) = ~$82mn. Full price of $1.3k for all 72k rifles puts it at $93mn. Extra mags and any other aids are dirt cheap afaik. So that's basically $25mn in the pockets of IA's top brass and MoD babus
 

Killbot

Member
Jun 3, 2019
234
82
Bangalore
[/QUOTE]
And the ejection port is on the left side.. Insas is based on FN FNC and AKM, which means Ejection port is on the right side...
And the handguard looks like a Mk.48 one, minus the rails.. Some kind of M240B/M249 variant.. Whoever thought that as Insas....
From D. F. I. :

INSAS Machine gun
View attachment 17958

Is this new ? The bipod & stock are rather ugly, otherwise not bad looking.
looks more like an M249 than Insas... The reciever is too big, for one.
And the ejection port is on the left side.. Insas is based on FN FNC and AKM, which means Ejection port is on the right side...
And the handguard looks like a Mk.48 one, minus the rails.. Some kind of M240B/M249 variant.. Whoever thought that as Insas....
 

Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
11,671
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A lot of small arms companies entering Indian civilian market all of a sudden. @Milspec @Parthu :

Make in India: In a first, citizens will buy Glock pistols armed forces use

The Tamil Nadu company has now set a target to sell the pistols to civilians by the end of March 2021.

Updated: Sep 30, 2020 10:27 IST
By Tanmay Chatterjee | Posted by Abhinav Sahay
Hindustan Times, Kolkata
1601546258315.png

The Glock is sold to citizens in many countries, including the USA. (Courtesy- GLOCK Perfection - Official website of GLOCK Ges.m.b.H - Leading pistol manufacturer)

Currently serving with the military, police and special forces in more than 70 nations, including India, America, England and France, the famous polymer-frame Glock pistols from Austria may soon be available to Indian citizens in non-service calibres.

In 2019, the Tamil Nadu-based Counter measures technologies Pvt. Ltd. (CMT) and Glock Ges.m.b.H, Austria, entered into a partnership to produce the pistols at the CMT plant in Tiruvallur district, which is part of the state’s defence industrial corridor planned by the Centre.

The joint venture was initially signed for supplying Glocks only to the government. With permission from the Centre, CMT has now set a target to sell the pistols to civilians by the end of March 2021, one of the Indian company’s directors and major shareholder, Jayakumar Jayarajan, told HT. For India’s civilian arms market, the arrival of the Glock will be a game changer, stakeholders feel. The pistol is sold to citizens in many countries, including the USA.

“The Covid-19 lockdown delayed our project by more than six months. We are trying to pick up speed. Our first priority is to supply the 9 mm pistols to the armed forces. Civilians will get the .22 LR, .380, .357 Sig, .40 and .45 calibre pistols. We have permission to set up our own proof testing facility,” said Jayarajan.


“A team from Glock landed in Chennai in January 2019 and flew to Delhi to meet Union defence ministry officials after visiting our site. In the delegation was a man who was part of the team that helped the designer, Gaston Glock, make the first pistol in 1981,” said Jayarajan.

Today, Glock produces fifth generation pistols with competitors following its polymer technology.

In India, the majority of licensed firearms owners are saddled with old or antiquated foreign handguns imported before 1984 or the ones being made by government ordnance factories. The erstwhile Congress government at the Centre banned import of all types of firearms in 1984, giving exemptions only to national and international shooters and state agencies.

Though out of reach of India’s gun owners till now, the world’s first military service pistol to sport a light polymer frame and trigger safety feature, is a familiar name to the nation. A 9 mm Glock 26 compact pistol was the only weapon wing commander Abhinandan Varthaman was armed with when he was captured in Pakistan in February 2019 after the Balakot air strikes. Glocks also went into action with National Security Guard (NSG) commandos during the terror attack on Pathankot air force base in 2016 and in other operations.

“We support any initiative that promotes the ‘Make in India’ programme and moves us closer to an ‘Atmanirbhar Bharat’ (self-sufficient India),” said Delhi-based Abhijeet Singh, spokesperson for National Association for Gun Rights India (NAGRI), the only pan-nation organisation fighting for liberal gun laws for citizens.

Prakash Simson, owner of Simson gun house in Mangalore, Karnataka, said, “Indians still pay a premium price for 50 or 70-year-old handguns because of their reliability. The India-made Glocks have to meet people’s expectations. But before that, the government must ensure that law-abiding citizens get gun licence without being caught in red tape for years. If licences are not issued there will no market. The companies will wind up their business.”

A gun owner and sports enthusiast, Yuvraj Yograjsinh of Mansa, Gujarat, said, “Glocks are not made in .32 ACP which is the most popular pistol calibre in India because the ammunition is made by our ordnance factory, the other one being .22 LR. Ammunition for the rest of the calibres being offered to civilians by CMT is not made here. Imported ammunitions are frightfully expensive. This needs to be addressed first.”

Jayarajan said CMT has been given permission to manufacture ammunition of all calibres, ranging from the small .22 LR to the 12.7 x 108 mm heavy machine-gun cartridge used by the army. “We plan to make the ammunition factory operational by the end of 2021,” he said.

.


British firm Webley and Scott set to make guns in India for civilians

The company has also decided to set up two shooting ranges in Gorakhpur and Kanpur to hone the shooting skills of the locals to promote it as a sport.

Published: 24th September 2020 03:34 PM
1601545288815.png

Photo: Webley and Scott "MASTIFF" Air rifle.

LUCKNOW: To arm the civilians with revolvers of international recognition, the famous British firearm makers Webley and Scott have decided to commence its production at Sandila-based unit in Hardoi district of UP from November this year. The firm has also decided to set up two shooting ranges in Gorakhpur and Kanpur to hone the shooting skills of the locals to promote it as a sport.

The British firearm manufacturers is the first foreign firm to have decided to commence the production of the revolver, around 3,000 annually, in collaboration with Sial Manufacturers Private Limited at their plant set up in Sandila, Hardoi, 111 km from state capital Lucknow.

As per the sources, the firm is set to launch the classic W&S Mark IV revolver in .32 calibre with a 13-shot capacity, polymer frame and steel slide. The future plan encompasses the manufacturing of a 12 bore pump-action shotgun, a .45 calibre pistol and air rifles, said the sources close to Sial Manufacturers, the Indian partner of W&S.


The sources claimed that the engineers from Webley & Scott had visited the facility in Sandila and had trained 40 men whom the Sials had hired locally. In the second phase, air guns would be made in June 2021 and shotguns in November 2021.

The British company and Sial Manufacturers had applied for manufacturing licence in 2017 and were awarded in 2019 by the state authorities. The estimated cost of .32 calibre revolver would be around Rs 1 lakh.

The company is set to employ around 200 people, who would be from Hardoi, by the time all the four units become functional. Thereafter, Webley & Scott plans to produce .9x19 parabellum pistols for the army, police and the paramilitary forces, which usually use Glock pistols.

Meanwhile, W&S has planned two shooting ranges in Kanpur and Gorakhpur apart from one testing range in Sandila on its factory premises spread over 6,400 metres. The ranges will be named after Webley & Scott and people could learn the use of the weapons and ammunition and polish their shooting skills.

The sources claimed that there would be facilities for trap shooting, skeet shooting and 10-metre pistol shooting.

 
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zapper

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Lolwa

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What a joke our OFBs are...

look at POF's new sniper which is a world apart in terms of quality and finish compared to our OFB filth

View attachment 18023View attachment 18024View attachment 18025View attachment 18026View attachment 18028View attachment 18027
Pakistan did one thing right that was preserving the gun culture their. In India due to commie nehru and his lineage did not repeal the arms act. Otherwise we would alredy be having a thriving small arms industry. Even if you look at selection of small arms. Indian Army in general seems tone-deaf when it comes to selecting small arms on top of that add the bureaucratic hurdles and the problems just get compounded. On the other hand the Pakistanis have had a very balanced distribution of their small arms. The type 56 is used as a carbine while G3 is the standard issue rifle. Something we can easily do but we wasted our time with the 5.56 nato. We could have very well used the 5.45x39 which is a superior caliber too. But IA chose the 5.56x45 on top of that the basic logic of having more ammo for a single grunt was never applied in our case. most soldiers were given the 20 rnd mag and is still issued today. So you have a weaker round with less lethality and no increase in capacity. Plus the infantry never got the idea of introducing pic rails for the last 10 years when an improved batch could have been made. Both IOF and the IA are at fault here none of them take small arms seriously or infantry in general. Even though our infantry has done the most work in securing our borders. The IAF has been mostly useless and also the armoured corps.
Cancelling the carbine deal was a big *censored* up that might hurt us in the future.
 
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Killbot

Member
Jun 3, 2019
234
82
Bangalore
A lot of small arms companies entering Indian civilian market all of a sudden. @Milspec @Parthu :

Make in India: In a first, citizens will buy Glock pistols armed forces use

The Tamil Nadu company has now set a target to sell the pistols to civilians by the end of March 2021.

Updated: Sep 30, 2020 10:27 IST
By Tanmay Chatterjee | Posted by Abhinav Sahay
Hindustan Times, Kolkata
View attachment 17977
The Glock is sold to citizens in many countries, including the USA. (Courtesy- GLOCK Perfection - Official website of GLOCK Ges.m.b.H - Leading pistol manufacturer)

Currently serving with the military, police and special forces in more than 70 nations, including India, America, England and France, the famous polymer-frame Glock pistols from Austria may soon be available to Indian citizens in non-service calibres.

In 2019, the Tamil Nadu-based Counter measures technologies Pvt. Ltd. (CMT) and Glock Ges.m.b.H, Austria, entered into a partnership to produce the pistols at the CMT plant in Tiruvallur district, which is part of the state’s defence industrial corridor planned by the Centre.

The joint venture was initially signed for supplying Glocks only to the government. With permission from the Centre, CMT has now set a target to sell the pistols to civilians by the end of March 2021, one of the Indian company’s directors and major shareholder, Jayakumar Jayarajan, told HT. For India’s civilian arms market, the arrival of the Glock will be a game changer, stakeholders feel. The pistol is sold to citizens in many countries, including the USA.

“The Covid-19 lockdown delayed our project by more than six months. We are trying to pick up speed. Our first priority is to supply the 9 mm pistols to the armed forces. Civilians will get the .22 LR, .380, .357 Sig, .40 and .45 calibre pistols. We have permission to set up our own proof testing facility,” said Jayarajan.

“A team from Glock landed in Chennai in January 2019 and flew to Delhi to meet Union defence ministry officials after visiting our site. In the delegation was a man who was part of the team that helped the designer, Gaston Glock, make the first pistol in 1981,” said Jayarajan.


Today, Glock produces fifth generation pistols with competitors following its polymer technology.

In India, the majority of licensed firearms owners are saddled with old or antiquated foreign handguns imported before 1984 or the ones being made by government ordnance factories. The erstwhile Congress government at the Centre banned import of all types of firearms in 1984, giving exemptions only to national and international shooters and state agencies.

Though out of reach of India’s gun owners till now, the world’s first military service pistol to sport a light polymer frame and trigger safety feature, is a familiar name to the nation. A 9 mm Glock 26 compact pistol was the only weapon wing commander Abhinandan Varthaman was armed with when he was captured in Pakistan in February 2019 after the Balakot air strikes. Glocks also went into action with National Security Guard (NSG) commandos during the terror attack on Pathankot air force base in 2016 and in other operations.

“We support any initiative that promotes the ‘Make in India’ programme and moves us closer to an ‘Atmanirbhar Bharat’ (self-sufficient India),” said Delhi-based Abhijeet Singh, spokesperson for National Association for Gun Rights India (NAGRI), the only pan-nation organisation fighting for liberal gun laws for citizens.

Prakash Simson, owner of Simson gun house in Mangalore, Karnataka, said, “Indians still pay a premium price for 50 or 70-year-old handguns because of their reliability. The India-made Glocks have to meet people’s expectations. But before that, the government must ensure that law-abiding citizens get gun licence without being caught in red tape for years. If licences are not issued there will no market. The companies will wind up their business.”

A gun owner and sports enthusiast, Yuvraj Yograjsinh of Mansa, Gujarat, said, “Glocks are not made in .32 ACP which is the most popular pistol calibre in India because the ammunition is made by our ordnance factory, the other one being .22 LR. Ammunition for the rest of the calibres being offered to civilians by CMT is not made here. Imported ammunitions are frightfully expensive. This needs to be addressed first.”

Jayarajan said CMT has been given permission to manufacture ammunition of all calibres, ranging from the small .22 LR to the 12.7 x 108 mm heavy machine-gun cartridge used by the army. “We plan to make the ammunition factory operational by the end of 2021,” he said.

.


British firm Webley and Scott set to make guns in India for civilians

The company has also decided to set up two shooting ranges in Gorakhpur and Kanpur to hone the shooting skills of the locals to promote it as a sport.

Published: 24th September 2020 03:34 PM
View attachment 17976
Photo: Webley and Scott "MASTIFF" Air rifle.

LUCKNOW: To arm the civilians with revolvers of international recognition, the famous British firearm makers Webley and Scott have decided to commence its production at Sandila-based unit in Hardoi district of UP from November this year. The firm has also decided to set up two shooting ranges in Gorakhpur and Kanpur to hone the shooting skills of the locals to promote it as a sport.

The British firearm manufacturers is the first foreign firm to have decided to commence the production of the revolver, around 3,000 annually, in collaboration with Sial Manufacturers Private Limited at their plant set up in Sandila, Hardoi, 111 km from state capital Lucknow.

As per the sources, the firm is set to launch the classic W&S Mark IV revolver in .32 calibre with a 13-shot capacity, polymer frame and steel slide. The future plan encompasses the manufacturing of a 12 bore pump-action shotgun, a .45 calibre pistol and air rifles, said the sources close to Sial Manufacturers, the Indian partner of W&S.

The sources claimed that the engineers from Webley & Scott had visited the facility in Sandila and had trained 40 men whom the Sials had hired locally. In the second phase, air guns would be made in June 2021 and shotguns in November 2021.


The British company and Sial Manufacturers had applied for manufacturing licence in 2017 and were awarded in 2019 by the state authorities. The estimated cost of .32 calibre revolver would be around Rs 1 lakh.

The company is set to employ around 200 people, who would be from Hardoi, by the time all the four units become functional. Thereafter, Webley & Scott plans to produce .9x19 parabellum pistols for the army, police and the paramilitary forces, which usually use Glock pistols.

Meanwhile, W&S has planned two shooting ranges in Kanpur and Gorakhpur apart from one testing range in Sandila on its factory premises spread over 6,400 metres. The ranges will be named after Webley & Scott and people could learn the use of the weapons and ammunition and polish their shooting skills.

The sources claimed that there would be facilities for trap shooting, skeet shooting and 10-metre pistol shooting.

Imma buy one as soon as I can get a license.
Imma buy one as soon as I can get a license.
Seems like there will be reforms. Would love to see indian companies make small arms for us though.. But Glocks..? I gotta say, I didn't see that coming.
 

Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
11,671
7,735
Tripura, NE, India
Imma buy one as soon as I can get a license.

Seems like there will be reforms. Would love to see indian companies make small arms for us though.. But Glocks..? I gotta say, I didn't see that coming.
I wanted to buy the SSS Defence 0.338 sniper myself. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
Pretty sure I can't afford even the scope of that thing but a man can dream can't he ?:p

I don't see the gun licensing getting any better. Why would it ? Are there any particular political reasons for that to change ? But the perplexing thing is why would companies open up production here if there is no civvie market ?
 

Killbot

Member
Jun 3, 2019
234
82
Bangalore
I wanted to buy the SSS Defence 0.338 sniper myself. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
Pretty sure I can't afford even the scope of that thing but a man can dream can't he ?:p

I don't see the gun licensing getting any better. Why would it ? Are there any particular political reasons for that to change ? But the perplexing thing is why would companies open up production here if there is no civvie market ?
I don't know. Maybe something is in the works. Maybe Glock saw Indian market value and started Babu bribing process. Its RIP to Indian OEMs if this is the case. If glock has significant success, we may, MAY, see Sig... Someday..

PS: DONT YOU DARE RUIN MY ONE MOMENT OF BLISS BEFORE THIS CRASHES DOWN ON MY HEAD.