Killbot

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Jun 3, 2019
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Both are just ripoffs. But thats ok. As long as they have IPRs. Besides I think even scar just blatantly copied the AR 18 system and put it in their chassis, which was improved upon by the ACR and similar chassis is on the SSS P72. Weren't the AR systems patented by Armalite? How come there are so many companies.. Even AKs.. Do patents not apply outside of a country?
@Milspec @Parthu @Gautam
 

Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
11,788
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Tripura, NE, India
Both are just ripoffs. But thats ok. As long as they have IPRs. Besides I think even scar just blatantly copied the AR 18 system and put it in their chassis, which was improved upon by the ACR and similar chassis is on the SSS P72.
The small arms space doesn't see many major innovations as other sectors see. What is there is a huge number of small improvements that over time add up to create a great gun.

Look at the Israeli ARAD or the Japanese army's new rifle or Thailand's new rifle. All are AR based, but modified in their own way. SSS Defence P-72 RECR maybe the same on the inside but at least they have made some attempts on modifying the ergonoimics to fit Indian physique. That's a pretty good start. We won't go from having no companies to having our own Colt or FN in a year. It will take decade of focused effort. The pvt. sector has done their first attempt now the MoD/Army must make their first attempt to support them. Even a small purchase of a few 100 guns will have a huge inpact.
Weren't the AR systems patented by Armalite?
Yes. Colt brought out the rights to the AR from Armalite later.
How come there are so many companies.. Even AKs.. Do patents not apply outside of a country?
Patents don't last forever. They last for a given number of years. After the time is over, its fair game for anyone to copy it. That was innovation can continue to be built on established platforms.
 
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Milspec

सर्वदा शक्तिशाली; सर्वत्र विजय
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Both are just ripoffs. But thats ok. As long as they have IPRs. Besides I think even scar just blatantly copied the AR 18 system and put it in their chassis, which was improved upon by the ACR and similar chassis is on the SSS P72. Weren't the AR systems patented by Armalite? How come there are so many companies.. Even AKs.. Do patents not apply outside of a country?
@Milspec @Parthu @Gautam
AK's never had a patent, Armalite sold it's mfg to colt in 59, the patents have expired and colt has retained the AR15/m16 trademark, so any one can build a AR15 patterned rifle as long as they dont call it M16 or an AR15. Patents for FAL, G3's, and a bunch of other rifles have expired and are free for all type deal if you can hack it.
Small arms patent disputes are difficult to win, you can patent design, not the mechanism. almost 99% of handguns in the market use Brownings tilting barrel mechanism, 95% of the bolt-actions are Mauser actions, and the list goes on, for twist ratios, barrel coating, breach design, rotating bolts, locking mechanisms etc.

Coming to p72, as I have said multiple times, I don't know much about the gun so won't comment on it. As far as ACR similarity, CZ Bren is full SCAR ripoff, so is MKEK MPT a complete HK416/417 rippoff, so is the Sig g2 (from 417), similarly, all Jericho's, baby eagle, Tanfoglio, SAR B Series, Tristar series, EAA Witness are straight copies of CZ75. Most polymer guns try to mimic glocks and some are blatant copies.

I personally do not think there is anything wrong in copying a good proven platform, if you can pull it off; good for you.

Interesting comment on AR18, which brings me back to system design vs the mechanism. AR180 used the short-stroke piston, but so did the VZ58... It depends how you see it. on a separate note AR18, and later the Howa made AR180 were horrible rifles.

Mechanically speaking, a firearm is as complex as a stapler. This IPR business needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.
 
Last edited:
Sep 1, 2020
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India
IMG_20201007_081513.jpg

What is this??
 

Killbot

Member
Jun 3, 2019
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Bangalore

Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
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Tripura, NE, India
That thing looks more like a DMR.
The NSG has the DMR variant of the Sig 716 in service. You need a good adjustable power scope for that. BEL's Trinetra is not enough.

Notice the difference in rails of the 2 variants. The DMR is a bit lighter on the front end.
 

Milspec

सर्वदा शक्तिशाली; सर्वत्र विजय
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😯 but what's the rifle they are carrying

And what would that total up to?
Jokes apart, it's a crappy rippoff of the failed OICW from the US,

Chinese would copy even failed projects, that tells you of their ingenuity.
1602079811068.png


As fas as total, count active troops+reserves+paramil for India, you should arrive at a ball park figure.
 

zapper

Active member
Oct 10, 2019
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US

Indian defence forces considering 'Made in India' carbine for meeting urgent requirements​


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With a proposal to import carbines unlikely to fructify, Indian defence forces are considering the acquisition of 'Made in India' carbine for meeting their urgent requirement in view of the situation on China border.

The carbine is an infantry weapon used for close quarter battles for which the Indian Army has been on a lookout since many years now.

"The carbine produced by the Ordnance Factory Board at its facility in Ishapore in West Bengal has been offered to the armed forces who are now evaluating it for acquisition," government sources told ANI.


Preliminary trials of the weapon were also carried out a short while ago by officials concerned dealing with the acquisition of weapon systems for the three armed forces.

The scope for consideration of buying indigenous carbine came up after it started emerging that the forces would not be acquiring the carbines from the foreign country which has exported it to only a few countries and that too in very small quantities.

The issue of acquiring these carbines from abroad had been stuck for close to two years now as the matter was referred to a high-level Committee for decision by the Defence Acquisition Council under the first NDA government.

The overall requirement of the armed forces is for almost 3.5 lakh carbines but they wanted to acquire around 94,000 of these weapons through import route under fast track procedures.

If selected, the OFB carbine will undergo rigorous testing and initially be inducted in limited numbers only by the defence forces.

Efforts to acquire the CQB carbines since 2008 have not materialised. The initial lot of carbines acquired by the forces is expected to be provided to troops deployed on the China front.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi government recently cleared the second batch of the Sig Sauer assault rifles which would be provided to the troops deployed against the Chinese forces in Eastern Ladakh and other areas.

Indian defence forces considering 'Made in India' carbine for meeting urgent requirements
 

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
654
510
Delhi
Both are just ripoffs. But thats ok. As long as they have IPRs. Besides I think even scar just blatantly copied the AR 18 system and put it in their chassis, which was improved upon by the ACR and similar chassis is on the SSS P72. Weren't the AR systems patented by Armalite? How come there are so many companies.. Even AKs.. Do patents not apply outside of a country?
@Milspec @Parthu @Gautam
The ar 15 patent has finished so you don't need license to produce ar 15 variants. If ofb wanted they can make their own ar 15 or ar-10 based gun. That's why suddenly everybody has been popping with their own ar based rifle. In case of ak the Soviets never believed in IP because they wanted to spread the ideology and if the ak would be percieved as the gun of the proletariat good for them. So it was too late before the damage control started. Though most of the most popular ak clones are all license produced. Or are former Warsaw pact countries. Sadly we never thought of producing ak even though we have allied with the Russians since forever...
 

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
654
510
Delhi
Jokes apart, it's a crappy rippoff of the failed OICW from the US,

Chinese would copy even failed projects, that tells you of their ingenuity.
View attachment 18158

As fas as total, count active troops+reserves+paramil for India, you should arrive at a ball park figure.
The Koreans made a successful version. Though the whole concept was too impractical for actual use.
images (3).jpeg