Shishumar and Sindhughosh Class of Submarines : Pictures and Discussions
- Thread starter Himanshu
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No no........outright transfer.....I don't think there will be any exchange of money. What we are getting in return is a critical say in Myanmar's submarine purchase plans. Opening a new market for us.
With the refitting of INS Sindhuvir, a Kilo class submarine, in advance stage of completion, the Hindustan Shipyard Limited (HSL) is hopeful of getting orders from Indian Navy for Medium Refit and Life Certification (MRLC) of fourth Russia-made EKM submarine under the ‘Make in India’ programme.
HSL confident of getting refit order of fourth EKM submarine: CMD
It was further informed that the existing 13 conventional submarines are between 17 to 31 years old. The delayed construction of Six Project 75 submarines at Mazagaon Docks, Mumbai is being closely monitored and the first is undergoing sea trials. Due to delays in the submarine projects, the Defence Ministry has approved Medium Refit cum Life Certification or MRLC of six older submarines, so that the force levels do not decline drastically. The first MRLC has already commenced in Russia in Jul 16 and is on schedule. Contract conclusion for MRLC of second submarine, Sindhuraj, is held up since the Russian Side has not been able to submit requisite Bank Guarantees and Integrity Pact as a result of the sanctions imposed by the US Govt on them. It has been recommended to the MoD that Corporate Guarantee of the JSC USC, a 100% Federal owned Enterprise firm backed by FSMTC could be accepted and Fast Track approval of the Competent Authority accorded for Contract conclusion. This would facilitate departure of the submarine to Russia by Jun 17. The Russian Side indicated M/s L&T as their preferred partner for undertaking MRLC of the third Submarine Sindhuratna in India. While the Navy also recommended issuance of Request for Proposal(RFP) to L&T, approval of Ministry of Defence is awaited. An early decision in this regard is essential since the Submarine’s refit is scheduled to commence from end 2017.
HSL completes submarine refit before deadline
TNN | Feb 6, 2020, 4:58 IST
Photo: INS SINDHUVIR(S58) off coast of Vizag during the IFR-2016.
Vijayawada: The Visakhapatnam-based Hindustan Shipyard Ltd, which is under the supervision of the defence ministry, said on Wednesday that it had completed extensive repairs, upgrade, system integration and trials of INS Sindhuvir, an Indian Navy submarine, ahead of the contractual delivery date of February 9.
Rear Admiral (Retd) LV Sarat Babu, chairman and MD of HSL, said that the timely completion of refit was possible due to the active involvement of the Naval Dockyard in Visakhapatnam and the support of Eastern Naval Command. Apart from this, a strong vendor base of about 70 MSMEs developed during the refit has generated sizeable local revenue and employment, a HSL press release said.
The HSL chairman said the completion of refits ahead of schedule puts HSL on a strong pedestal for undertaking future submarine projects like P75I construction.
HSL completes submarine refit before deadline | Vijayawada News - Times of India
TNN | Feb 6, 2020, 4:58 IST
Photo: INS SINDHUVIR(S58) off coast of Vizag during the IFR-2016.
Vijayawada: The Visakhapatnam-based Hindustan Shipyard Ltd, which is under the supervision of the defence ministry, said on Wednesday that it had completed extensive repairs, upgrade, system integration and trials of INS Sindhuvir, an Indian Navy submarine, ahead of the contractual delivery date of February 9.
Rear Admiral (Retd) LV Sarat Babu, chairman and MD of HSL, said that the timely completion of refit was possible due to the active involvement of the Naval Dockyard in Visakhapatnam and the support of Eastern Naval Command. Apart from this, a strong vendor base of about 70 MSMEs developed during the refit has generated sizeable local revenue and employment, a HSL press release said.
The HSL chairman said the completion of refits ahead of schedule puts HSL on a strong pedestal for undertaking future submarine projects like P75I construction.
HSL completes submarine refit before deadline | Vijayawada News - Times of India
Nopes. Save that money, either spend it in buying more P75 (if the leak is not a problem) or else just opt to overhaul 3 kilos of IN and put the rest to accelerating the P75I program.
1.8 billion for 6 overhaul subs having 10-15 years life.... You see these kilos would be cold war era stored subs. We should learn our lessons from Vicky saga. Buying cold war era stored aircrafts is one thing, ships/subs totally different thing.
For 1.8 billion package we can see 3 more Scorpenes along with F21 weapons package now (if leak hasn't caused a problem).
The delivery schedule is 1 sub every year, 3 years after the contract is signed. That's the hitch. I'm seriously beginning to feel, that the IN isn't considering the Scorpene due to the leak issue. Nothing else explains why they'd consider a 1.8 billion USD proposal to haul 30 year old Kilo subs in addition to refurbishment of existing ones.
All the 6 Kilos would likely become available within 9 years of signing a contract, while the first of the 3 Scorpenes would only get inducted by then. This is no different from the 21 Mig-29s being purchased, which will also be used only for 15 years.
Also, Scorpenes will cost way more than 1.8B, whereas the 3 Kilos are $900M, which is actually quite cheap even for a 10-15 year life. So it's both cheaper and quicker than buying the Scorpenes.
Another advantage is the new Kilos carry much more advanced Indian tech than what's on the Scorpene. The Kilos also have more range, better weapons and bigger sensors, and all these are better connected with the navy's existing and future set up. Whereas any Scorpenes bought through options will have to be bought along with the tech that was originally introduced in the first batch of Scorpenes, in other words, in a few more years these subs will be outdated and will get upgrades only after 2040.
There isn't any advantage to buying the 3 Scorpenes now. The extra money is better spent on the P-75I.
Nope. I've explained the actual reason above. The leak wasn't a problem, it won't affect the Indian subs.
More Scorpenes makes sense (if leak is not an issue) over 877s any day.
First you are assuming that it will still take MDL 6-7 years for fabrication of the hull and floating it out. But it will actually be less than 48 months for the first if orders are placed right now. 3 Scorpenes ordered today from MDL will all see completion of construction by late 2027-28.
3 Scorpenes along with F21s will hardly cost 500 million USD (if we also buy new French AIP with them). It will be actually less than 1.8 billion USD.
Scorpenes will any day provide higher availability rates, better and safer operational hours on station than a 877.
And the ~1.5 billion USD on 3 Scorpenes will be for new vessels from an Indian Submarine production line, which is likely to go idle and and if MDL wins the P75I , we will in that case be paying 1-1.5 billion USD along with 2-5 years extra delay for infrastructure and skill loss compensation. If the submarine line in MDL is active, it will eventually help us in P75I.
You are again only assuming the weapons and sensors will be superior. Scorpenes with F21, Exocet latest block and MdCN any day beats Kilo with 80s era torpedo and 300km Klubs. Again even in sensor the sonar array of Scorpene is much more sophisticated than our own. Its combat management system is better.
Plus remember and learn from Vicky ficaso. Its not worth it.
MDL themselves have said any new Scorpene order will take 7-10 years to deliver.
Nope. You are referring to 2005 costs. Even 2005 costs are now more than $500M.
Not really. All boats follow pretty much the same kind of in-water and off-water times.
You are considering Scorpene will remain cheap and that it will be built quickly. Neither are possible.
MDL's experience won't be lost. The first Scorpene will be back on the refit table once the last Scorpene is delivered. Anyway, Scorpene indigenisation level is just 30-40%, so it's a pointless exercise.
Also, if the MDL line is used to build 3 more Scorpenes, then it will become unavailable for the P-75I. Rather P-75I will be delayed waiting for the Scorpene line to free up. After that it takes time to upgrade the line to handle the P-75I as well.
Simple terms, Scorpene will be less capable, more expensive and very late compared to the 3 Russian upgrades.
The new Kilo specs are new and a generation ahead. The full Panchedriya suite is available. Also, new upgrades can come in far more quickly than on the Scorpene because a lot of the stuff on the new Kilos are Indian. Particularly tech being developed through our nuclear sub programs. It allows the use of Indian weapons as well, whenever they become available over the next 5 years.
Not comparable. Vicky, they worked on it from scratch, with no previous experience. Otoh, they have plenty of experience working on Kilos.
They've two separate lines at the MDL. The last 4 Scorpenes were built at a brand new workshop in MDL. In addition to which there's the older line which is used for maintenance of other subs. If they were to receive orders for another 6 Scorpenes today, they'd have all of them in water for trials by 2030.
They have only 1 line. The 2nd line was cancelled. If they did have a second line, then all 6 Scorpenes would have delivered a long time ago. The original plan was to set up a second line and deliver all 6 by 2019, but that didn't happen, so the original schedule of 2021-22 is being followed.
Anyway, it doesn't change anything for the ongoing discussion, since MDL cannot deliver faster than the Russians can upgrade Kilos even if they have 2 lines.
1.8 billion is a ridiculous number. INS Sindhuvir refit cost was Rs 533 cr !
