Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

I think that as part of Macron's plan to put the French armed forces on a war footing, the government asked manufacturers to speed up their schedules and Dassault said that it could speed up the development of the F4 if the government paid. The government should have said Chiche.
 
I think that as part of Macron's plan to put the French armed forces on a war footing, the government asked manufacturers to speed up their schedules and Dassault said that it could speed up the development of the F4 if the government paid. The government should have said Chiche.
You'll need 'em if you decide to fight Russia. Rafale F4.2/3/4 will need to square off against Su-57M. So you better be ready.
 
Strange, no?
F4.2 why not, but 4.3 ???
Do you have the content of F4.3 specifics?

I think that as part of Macron's plan to put the French armed forces on a war footing, the government asked manufacturers to speed up their schedules and Dassault said that it could speed up the development of the F4 if the government paid. The government should have said Chiche.

Isn't it normal though? F4.1 in early 2023. F4.2 in late 2024. F4.3 in 2026. Seems okay.
 
You'll need 'em if you decide to fight Russia. Rafale F4.2/3/4 will need to square off against Su-57M. So you better be ready.

Requires 4-5 years of operations and at least 80-100 jets to become a threat.

We have to see how UAF F-16s and M2000s fare against Su-30SM and Su-35S first.
 
Requires 4-5 years of operations and at least 80-100 jets to become a threat.
By the end of this year VKS shall have close to 40 operational Su-57s so that should be a threat.
We have to see how UAF F-16s and M2000s fare against Su-30SM and Su-35S first.
They're upgrading all 130 Su-30SMs( both Air Force & Navy) to SM2 variant. This makes SM2 almost like 2-seat Su-35S. So over 240 high-end advance 4++ gen heavy-weight fighters that have R-77M and R-37M in their arsenal. Both F-16 and M-2000 would find themselves in trouble, me thinks.
 
By the end of this year VKS shall have close to 40 operational Su-57s so that should be a threat.

Possibly better than the Su-35, but they are standard Su-57s, not the Ms.

They're upgrading all 130 Su-30SMs( both Air Force & Navy) to SM2 variant. This makes SM2 almost like 2-seat Su-35S. So over 240 high-end advance 4++ gen heavy-weight fighters that have R-77M and R-37M in their arsenal. Both F-16 and M-2000 would find themselves in trouble, me thinks.

Yeah, it's a pretty good force. The issue is the Russians cannot attack NATO force multipliers. So, if the UAF is allowed to get a full real-time picture of the battlespace, then it's going to 'cause problems. We may even see the Russians attempting to take out NATO assets, and that could trigger a global war.

Another issue is the air force they have developed to date does not give them parity with NATO, it's just a stopgap meant to bridge the gap between the end of the Cold War and the arrival of their next gen programs, the big 3 in particular, PAK FA, DP and DA. So their ability to achieve technological parity with NATO is still 7+ years away.

This is something I've pointed out pretty much 4-5 years ago. This problem is across the board, among all services. They have only just begun their modernization, and it's expected to complete only around 2035. Maybe a bit faster 'cause of the war. So they simply aren't ready to fight NATO on their terms yet. They already made a stupid decision invading Ukraine, but attacking NATO will be stupider than that.
 
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Indian Rafale ‘Haunts’ China’s J-20; PLAAF Deployed 5 Stealth Fighters To Counter 1 Indian Aircraft – IAF Chief

By Ashish Dangwal May 20, 2024

In the aftermath of the Galwan clash between India and China, tensions soared to unprecedented levels, leading Beijing to bolster its air power significantly. Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria, the former Indian Air Force (IAF) chief, has revealed that China deployed five times more J-20 stealth fighters than India’s then-newly procured Rafale jets during the standoff.

During the interview on May 19, Bhadauria emphasized the strategic importance of the Rafale fighter jets, describing them as the “strongest weapon system in the inventory” at the time.

He recounted how the arrival of the first Rafale prompted China to station four J-20 fighters in response. As the number of Rafales in India’s arsenal increased to four, China ramped up its deployment to 20 J-20s, resulting in a ratio of five J-20s deployed by Beijing to counter each Rafale.

The J-20, regarded as China’s most advanced fighter aircraft, was a direct countermeasure to the Rafale’s capabilities. “The Chinese knew what we could do,” Bhadauria remarked, indicating the Indian Air Force’s high level of preparedness.

Bhadauria also mentioned the term “salami slicing,” a tactic attributed to China’s gradual encroachment on Indian territory. He recalled the challenges faced before the Rafale acquisition, noting that prior efforts to procure these advanced jets had been unsuccessful until a government-to-government contract facilitated their purchase.

While Bhadauria did not specify the exact locations and times of these deployments, previous reports indicated that in the months following the Galwan clash, China positioned J-20s near the Indian border at the Hotan Airbase in Xinjiang province.

This move came in response to the perceived threat posed by India’s Rafale jets, which had begun conducting night flying exercises in the mountainous terrain of Himachal Pradesh shortly after their induction.

Despite attempts to downplay the deployment in Chinese media, the move’s significance was not lost on international observers, who recognized its implications for regional stability.

Acknowledging the J-20’s long-range capabilities, Chinese media justified the deployment as routine training exercises to enhance operational readiness. However, the strategic positioning of these aircraft near India’s borders highlighted China’s assertive posture in the region.

Since then, China has intensified its military presence at the Hotan Air Base, stationing a diverse pack of fighter jets and drones to bolster its defensive capabilities.

In June 2022, EurAsian Times revealed a substantial buildup, with the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) deploying around two dozen frontline combat aircraft, including the J-11 and J-20 stealth fighters.

5:1 Deployment Against IAF Rafale Fighters

The disclosure by the former Indian Air Force chief has reignited the longstanding debate surrounding India’s Rafale fighter jets and China’s J-20 stealth aircraft.

The revelation that China deployed 20 J-20s to counter just four Rafales has especially sparked discussions regarding the comparative capabilities of these advanced war machines, both touted as crown jewels by their respective air forces.

This deployment ratio not only underscores the Rafale’s perceived potency as a formidable adversary but also prompts inquiries into the efficacy and confidence in the J-20’s ability to neutralize the Rafale threat.

While Chinese authorities have regularly lauded the J-20’s capabilities, claiming it can counter American F-35s and F-22s, many experts persist in their skepticism regarding its true combat prowess.

On the other hand, Indian military officials and experts have placed the Rafale on equal footing with the J-20, citing its operational track record and superior performance.

For instance, in 2020, IAF Air Marshal (Retd) Raghunath Nambiar argued, “Rafale is the best aircraft in the sky at this time. To compare it with what Pakistan has, like F-16 & JF-17, wouldn’t be anything serious. If you had to compare Rafale against Chengdu J-20, I think Rafale stands head & shoulders above them.”

There are clear reasons behind such confident statements. One significant factor is that although the J-20s have been marketed as fifth-generation stealth jets, their primary limitation lies in their lack of proven combat experience.

In contrast, the French Rafale has been operational for almost 25 years, participating in military campaigns in Afghanistan, Libya, Mali, and Syria, where it was engaged in ground strike missions.

While these operations may not exclusively involve air-to-air combat, they demonstrate the Rafale’s capability as a combat-ready aircraft—a distinction that cannot yet be attributed to the J-20.

Retired IAF Air Marshal Anil Chopra echoed these sentiments, suggesting that the J-20 may not live up to its billing as a fifth-generation stealth jet. He highlighted concerns regarding the J-20’s engine, radar, and electronic warfare suite, pointing to instances of new engine development issues and doubts about its overall performance under combat conditions.

Chopra also noted the extensive customization of Indian Air Force Rafale aircraft. These India-specific modifications enhance the aircraft’s capabilities in the region.

Meanwhile, Beijing is aware of the debate surrounding the untested status of the J-20 in real combat scenarios, which remains a noteworthy point of contention.
 
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