Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Picdelamirand-oil said:
In fact, the Rafale's evolutions follow a path that corresponds to the needs of those who pay for the evolutions. And France is the main payer of the evolutions, and we realise that the Russian weapon systems are not very impressive and that we need more quantity than to make the systems evolve. So I don't know which way we're going to go after F4. :p
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You forget that even if anti-Russia forces don't need more advanced tech immediately, Rafale's main customers have different threats to deal with, especially China. Anti-Russia forces have already chosen the F-35. The Rafale will continue to have to stay competitive with the F-35 to tap some of these markets post 2030.

Russian weapons systems are just modernised Cold War era relics. We will know a bit more about all their new tech only after 2025 or so. Trappier was also talking about FCAS's lost decade, so there's more money for the Rafale at this time.
 
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Hydra said:
Most likely we will purchase F5 standard in early 30s, after a disastrous & defeat in the hands of Chinese.
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No way. Rafale or no Rafale, Chinese won't be able to beat us now. Their window was 2020 and that is closed now. Now any Chinese misadventure would pan out very bad for them.

Thankfully Indian government and armed forces have acquired enough firepower(for the last 2+ years) to deter a combined Chinese and Pakistani attack.

In fact, once S400 becomes fully operational we should go for POK, in my opinion.
 
Oh dear lack of availability of Rafales are causing Rafale pilots to fly less hours waaaaay below NATO standards. 😯

French MP reports alarming training shortage for Rafale pilots​


A report on the challenges the French Air Force will face in 2023 has revealed an alarming training deficit for both fighter and transport pilots.

In his report, Parliament member Frank Giletti explained that fighter pilots are only expected to fly 147 hours in 2023, against 162 in 2022. This is below NATO standards, which require that a combat pilot fly a minimum of 180 flight hours annually.

“This training deficit is particularly detrimental, given that the current strategic context requires greater operational readiness of our aviators,” Giletti commented.

In response, the French Ministry of the Armed Forces said the hours shortfall was linked to aircraft availability.
www.aerotime.aero

French MP reports alarming training shortage for Rafale pilots - AeroTime

A report on the challenges the French Air Force will face in 2023 has revealed an alarming training deficit for both fighter and transport pilots. In his report, Parliament member Frank Giletti explained that fighter pilots are only expected to fly 147 hours in 2023, against 162 in 2022. This is...
www.aerotime.aero www.aerotime.aero

How can a 4th gen fighter have such a low availability rate? It's not like it's an advanced 5th gen stealth fighter with the most advanced tech to ever be in a fighter but here it is.

Lets see....
FIgy-Fh-AXIAALl-q-jpeg.jpg


I think the MCR of Rafale hasn't changed since 2021 in fact it has probably dipped closer to 2018 levels.

What a tremendous horrific apocalyptic disaster for French air force, navy and its pilots.


@Optimist ;)
 
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Rajput Lion said:
No way. Rafale or no Rafale, Chinese won't be able to beat us now. Their window was 2020 and that is closed now. Now any Chinese misadventure would pan out very bad for them.

Thankfully Indian government and armed forces have acquired enough firepower(for the last 2+ years) to deter a combined Chinese and Pakistani attack.

In fact, once S400 becomes fully operational we should go for POK, in my opinion.
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Oh really, tell me about the military revamp we have done after 2020.
 
Innominate said:
Oh dear lack of availability of Rafales are causing Rafale pilots to fly less hours waaaaay below NATO standards. 😯

French MP reports alarming training shortage for Rafale pilots​


A report on the challenges the French Air Force will face in 2023 has revealed an alarming training deficit for both fighter and transport pilots.

In his report, Parliament member Frank Giletti explained that fighter pilots are only expected to fly 147 hours in 2023, against 162 in 2022. This is below NATO standards, which require that a combat pilot fly a minimum of 180 flight hours annually.

“This training deficit is particularly detrimental, given that the current strategic context requires greater operational readiness of our aviators,” Giletti commented.

In response, the French Ministry of the Armed Forces said the hours shortfall was linked to aircraft availability.
www.aerotime.aero

French MP reports alarming training shortage for Rafale pilots - AeroTime

A report on the challenges the French Air Force will face in 2023 has revealed an alarming training deficit for both fighter and transport pilots. In his report, Parliament member Frank Giletti explained that fighter pilots are only expected to fly 147 hours in 2023, against 162 in 2022. This is...
www.aerotime.aero www.aerotime.aero

How can a 4th gen fighter have such a low availability rate? It's not like it's an advanced 5th gen stealth fighter with the most advanced tech to ever be in a fighter but here it is.

Lets see....
View attachment 25048

I think the MCR of Rafale hasn't changed since 2021 in fact it has probably dipped closer to 2018 levels.

What a tremendous horrific apocalyptic disaster for French air force, navy and its pilots.


@Optimist ;)
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Well that's something you won't find talked much about by the frog forums. They live in a fantasy castle, in the sky and pay the F-35 rent.
 
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Hydra said:
Oh really, tell me about the military revamp we have done after 2020.
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This is OT here but post Galwan 2020 we've now got:

1. 36 Rafale jets as our tip of the spear. 36 Rafales used properly can wipe out entire PAF and give heavy attrition to the Chinks.

2. Updated SU30MKIs with new sensors(Dhruti) and new missiles(Derby ER, Astra and ASRAAM). You and some here may have lost faith but when the balloon goes up, this is still our numero uno weapon.

3. Air Defence: This is where we have got most new weapons. S400/ MRSAM combined with our AFNET is a real worry for our enemies.

4. Fully operational over 30 Tejas fighters with Derby ER. Very dangerous jet and now IAF have started to use it in exercises.

5. New Aircraft Carrier.

And much more.
 
Rajput Lion said:
This is OT here but post Galwan 2020 we've now got:

1. 36 Rafale jets as our tip of the spear. 36 Rafales used properly can wipe out entire PAF and give heavy attrition to the Chinks.

2. Updated SU30MKIs with new sensors(Dhruti) and new missiles(Derby ER, Astra and ASRAAM). You and some here may have lost faith but when the balloon goes up, this is still our numero uno weapon.

3. Air Defence: This is where we have got most new weapons. S400/ MRSAM combined with our AFNET is a real worry for our enemies.

4. Fully operational over 30 Tejas fighters with Derby ER. Very dangerous jet and now IAF have started to use it in exercises.

5. New Aircraft Carrier.

And much more.
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1)purchased much before 2020 events, and last time i check fan boys were busy in advertising s400 as PAF beater.
2)You need to deal with Chinese j20s, these relic from past will be eaten alive by chinese stealth fighters.
3)Ukrain war.
4)Its an indian Mig21 replacement, will not even cross 100 km inside enemy territory.
5) where?
 
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Rajput Lion said:
This is OT here but post Galwan 2020 we've now got:

1. 36 Rafale jets as our tip of the spear. 36 Rafales used properly can wipe out entire PAF and give heavy attrition to the Chinks.

2. Updated SU30MKIs with new sensors(Dhruti) and new missiles(Derby ER, Astra and ASRAAM). You and some here may have lost faith but when the balloon goes up, this is still our numero uno weapon.

3. Air Defence: This is where we have got most new weapons. S400/ MRSAM combined with our AFNET is a real worry for our enemies.

4. Fully operational over 30 Tejas fighters with Derby ER. Very dangerous jet and now IAF have started to use it in exercises.

5. New Aircraft Carrier.

And much more.
Click to expand...

The ones that really matter are the army's new artillery guns, new infantry gear and a new advanced comm system.
 
randomradio said:
The ones that really matter are the army's new artillery guns, new infantry gear and a new advanced comm system.
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Please explain how artillery guns will help, if the chinese are able achieve air dominance. Our (Indian) artillery guns will be target practice for them?

PS: I am a newbie, and just can not understand how not having good war-planes will help India in short but intense wars / prolonged wars with China / Pak. But hey - you claimed that IAF has achieved complete air-dominance over some parts of pak after balakot, which do not seem believeable to me. I could be wrong though.
 
Hydra said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1588525449726275589

@Rajput Lion
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I agree that's the worrying area. But yet we won't allow Chinks to achieve air dominance over our sky.

Fact is, India is not going to attack China, we just have to protect our turf. With our new found strength of SAMs, datalinked with IACCS and AFNET, along with other fighters all fighting as part of the same network would create a lot of problems for the Chinese. Our airforce is comfortable in fighting and taking on China 1 on 1, fighting a defensive war, while the army does the real damage.
 
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jk007 said:
Please explain how artillery guns will help, if the chinese are able achieve air dominance. Our (Indian) artillery guns will be target practice for them?

PS: I am a newbie, and just can not understand how not having good war-planes will help India in short but intense wars / prolonged wars with China / Pak. But hey - you claimed that IAF has achieved complete air-dominance over some parts of pak after balakot, which do not seem believeable to me. I could be wrong though.
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What will win us the war is the army, and they need artillery. Long range fires will come via the upcoming IRF.

The Chinese can't achieve air dominance over India, they are not there yet. It can happen only if our modernisation atrophies, and even that's a long shot because our new SAMs are all numerous in numbers and cutting edge. In another 5 years, even the army will get a lot of new SAMs. So the modern SAMs, 36 Rafales, new weapons on the MKI, alongside new comms (very important), has given us enough of an edge to prevent destruction in the air.

What's actually necessary to destroy the enemy on the ground is massive fires via artillery. 80% of the casualties inflicted on the Ukrainians is coming from artillery. And the greatest threat to our artillery is PLAGF's counter battery (CB) capabilities. Since artillery is constantly on the move, the air force cannot effectively deal with it, you need a lot of preparation to use aircraft. Otoh, CB can deal with enemy artillery immediately as long as it's within range. To deal with that, we need both smarts and numbers.
 
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randomradio said:
We have what's necessary for a limited war in North India and a full scale war with Pakistan. It's gonna take 5 years to get the force multiplier capability required to deal with China via 6 A319 based AWACS and 6 B767 based refuellers.
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I am a great fan of current gov. and our PM, but cancelling FGFA was a big mistake and so was not ordering 126 Rafales.

Had we at least 30/40 SU60s now along with 100 Rafales, we could have taken the fight deep into China and achieved air dominance.

But our current force structure at best allows our AF to play supporting role to both Army and Navy in the Chinese context. What say?
 
Rajput Lion said:
I agree that's the worrying area. But yet we won't allow Chinks to achieve air dominance over our sky.

Fact is, India is not going to attack China, we just have to protect our turf. With our new found strength of SAMs, datalinked with IACCS and AFNET, along with other fighters all fighting as part of the same network would create a lot of problems for the Chinese. Our airforce is comfortable in fighting and taking on China 1 on 1, fighting a defensive war, while the army does the real damage.
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You dont need to allow Chinese to achieve air dominance, they will achieve it with the existing firepower, and we will bound fail against Chinese, thanks to government's failure in procuring weapons.
 
randomradio said:
The Chinese can't achieve air dominance over India, they are not there yet. It can happen only if our modernisation atrophies, and even that's a long shot because our new SAMs are all numerous in numbers and cutting edge
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It's not just about modernization it is also about replacing the damaged or destroyed equipment on time. And mark this post, that's where India will lose.
 
Rajput Lion said:
I am a great fan of current gov. and our PM, but cancelling FGFA was a big mistake and so was not ordering 126 Rafales.

Had we at least 30/40 SU60s now along with 100 Rafales, we could have taken the fight deep into China and achieved air dominance.

But our current force structure at best allows our AF to play supporting role to both Army and Navy in the Chinese context. What say?
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Neither FGFA nor MMRCA were workable deals, so forget about them. As of this time, neither Su-57 nor Su-60 exist. Let's see if we make a decision after 2027 or so. For now, officially, we are betting on MRFA and AMCA.
 
screambowl said:
It's not just about modernization it is also about replacing the damaged or destroyed equipment on time. And mark this post, that's where India will lose.
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When it comes to the navy and air force, it doesn't matter as much. But the army will need imports to win wars.
 
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