Punjab, Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand and J&K : Political Discussions

Lolwa

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Exhaustive primer & good source of information as to how was the present ethos of Kashmir created & how did this problem evolve.

Word of Caution - It's heavily biased in favor of Muslim victimhood & pays cursory tributes to how was Kashmir's religious demographics changed & the subsequent Islamisation of its so called "freedom struggle" Including what was the state of affairs at the time of partition focussing on the Maharaja atrocties & retaliation by Sanatani groups but nothing on what triggered the events in the first place.

Having listed the problems with this thread, it's still a good primer on the topics covered if you bring yourself to ignore the biases I've listed.
Funny how this hack de-hinduises Kashmir's history and is celebrated as an "intellectual". Good thread though..
 

AbRaj

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Dec 6, 2017
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Republic of Wadiya
@Shaktimaan so you love to call 40 % Indians as Hindu Bigots(80% of them are Hindus ) for Voting for BJP instead of the opposition Party led by Man child Dynast of questionable IQ and competence. A party which is officially allied to CCP of China whom we are fighting war with.
And IMO you are perfectly justified to think like that. I mean why not.

But the problem is that why the same parameter is not applicied to States where Non-Hindus are in majority like Punjab and J&K ? Can you enlist the number of Hindu CMs of Punjab ( after its separation from Haryana and HP) or Kashmir ?
You have pure religious bodies fighting election or campaigning for a party for religious alignment in these states and several other states. But it’s kosher for likes of you. Only a Hindu must be vilified to vote for a political party he thinks is in the best interest of the country and himself.

And btw those farmers are not actually farmers but a heterogeneous group of opportunists that came together for different goals at an opportunate time to force govt to accept their demands. Although the bulk of people are just village folks who know nothing about Farm Laws or what Govt have done and why.
they are just cannon fodders to likes of billionaires middleman like Tikaits or YoYa etc. Even Punjab govt don’t seem to be interested in those laws but also doesn’t want to anger the powerful Arhtiya lobby (you call them commission agents I believe) that is sucking blood of farmers since so long that farmers are starting to feel as these are essential part of society which they are not.
 
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Shaktimaan

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Dec 1, 2017
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so you love to call 40 % Indians as Hindu Bigots(80% of them are Hindus ) for Voting for BJP instead of the opposition Party led by Man child Dynast of questionable IQ and competence. A party which is officially allied to CCP of China whom we are fighting war with.
U r quoting me in the wrong way. If u want to vote BJP, it is ur decision but the reason behind that decision should be good(not Gunda gardi). I just wanted to know that. And if Congress wants to win, I think they should replace Rahul with someone else. There is no doubt about that.

But the problem is that why the same parameter is not applicied to States where Non-Hindus are in majority like Punjab and J&K ? Can you enlist the number of Hindu CMs of Punjab ( after its separation from Haryana and HP) or Kashmir ?
You have pure religious bodies fighting election or campaigning for a party for religious alignment in these states and several other states. But it’s kosher for likes of you. Only a Hindu must be vilified to vote for a political party he thinks is in the best interest of the country and himself.
We are not voting them to beat other religious groups bcz we cant do Gunda gardi. Even Hindus are voting for Congress and then akali dal and not BJP. And again I have asked that question in this forum bcz this forum has more sane people than that forum.

And btw those farmers are not actually farmers but a heterogeneous group of opportunists that came together for different goals at an opportunate time to force govt to accept their demands. Although the bulk of people are just village folks who know nothing about Farm Laws or what Govt have done and why.
Ok, it's your opinion. I think i have already discussed whats the experience of Punjab farmers with private companies in the past.
 

AbRaj

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U r quoting me in the wrong way. If u want to vote BJP, it is ur decision but the reason behind that decision should be good(not Gunda gardi). I just wanted to know that. And if Congress wants to win, I think they should replace Rahul with someone else. There is no doubt about that.
Isn’t it true for everybody voting for any party or supporting any organisation. And everyone of us dislikes the separatists be from Kashmir, Punjab,NE states or those Naxals. No sympathies whatsoever.
So tell me how you justify Khalistani flags, posters and slogans in a rally supposed to be for farmers rights by the same logic ? What good khalistanis have done to those “farmers” or for the matter to anyone . They only brought religious hatred, death and destruction. They killed Sikhs too apart from hundreds if not thousands of Hindus.
We are not voting them to beat other religious groups bcz we cant do Gunda gardi. Even Hindus are voting for Congress and then akali dal and not BJP. And again I have asked that question in this forum bcz this forum has more sane people than that forum.
Same reason is true for voting for BJP or even Communist parties too. People believe that they will end bad practices like corruption and poverty etc and bring development and prosperity. No one votes for hatred for others I believe ( although I must tell you till now I’ve never voted in any elections apart from my college election) .
BTW I believe Captain Amarinder is a good man and is doing pretty good job in Punjab. And also keeping the Drug Lords of Akalis out of power.

you topic and place of choosing was just wrong. Why T F insert your political agenda in a thread about ongoing pandemic discussion. If you wanna discuss, discuss about incompetence of them to handle the situation
Ok, it's your opinion. I think i have already discussed whats the experience of Punjab farmers with private companies in the past.
Fair enough. And you too know about General mood of the rest of us be it a Mallu , Tamil, Bihari, Bengali or UPite.
Well educated people can see through the smoke screen of social media and that you can see in this forum too.
 

Shaktimaan

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Dec 1, 2017
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So tell me how you justify Khalistani flags, posters and slogans in a rally supposed to be for farmers rights by the same logic ? What good khalistanis have done to those “farmers” or for the matter to anyone . They only brought religious hatred, death and destruction. They killed Sikhs too apart from hundreds if not thousands of Hindus.
I am not sure why u keep talking about farmers and Khalistan. Like I said earlier I should have cropped the part in which he is talking about killing farmers. I just wanted to know about the voters ' thinking.

No one votes for hatred for others I believe ( although I must tell you till now I’ve never voted in any elections apart from my college election) .
BTW I believe Captain Amarinder is a good man and is doing pretty good job in Punjab. And also keeping the Drug Lords of Akalis out of power.
Yes, that's why I was surprised that is this reason people are voting for Modi to beat other religion people 😜. Are people still vote by looking at religion , caste and how they can push people of different faith.

And Amarinder is also not good, he reduced the salary of employed people from 55 k to 15k.

Well educated people can see through the smoke screen of social media and that you can see in this forum too.
Ok. Like I have said earlier agriculture is a state subject, let the state govt decide. Like how people are saying Health is a state subject, why u guys are blaming the Central govt.

If these laws are so good, people will know it in the future and then they can ask the state govt again but what's point of bringing laws forcefully.
 

AbRaj

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Dec 6, 2017
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Republic of Wadiya
I am not sure why u keep talking about farmers and Khalistan. Like I said earlier I should have cropped the part in which he is talking about killing farmers. I just wanted to know about the voters ' thinking.
He’s probably referring to those Turbaned Naxals aka khalistanis . Anyway
Yes, that's why I was surprised that is this reason people are voting for Modi to beat other religion people 😜. Are people still vote by looking at religion , caste and how they can push people of different faith.
Why pretend that it’s not true. Most Muslims vote en block.
Religion and caste plays very important role in voting behaviour of people specially minorities.
And Amarinder is also not good, he reduced the salary of employed people from 55 k to 15k.
Don’t know about that. But that looks like to much
Ok. Like I have said earlier agriculture is a state subject, let the state govt decide. Like how people are saying Health is a state subject, why u guys are blaming the Central govt.
Exactly my point. Let the states decide how much to purchase and the money required for that. Let’s not force FCI to keep purchasing anything and everything the commission agents bring to the mandi.
keep in mind it’s our money used to bail out the debt ridden FCI every year.
If these laws are so good, people will know it in the future and then they can ask the state govt again but what's point of bringing laws forcefully.
True
 
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RISING SUN

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Dec 3, 2017
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Regret that my party didn’t participate in J&K panchayat polls: NC president Farooq Abdullah​

National Conference president and former Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Farooq Abdullah Tuesday expressed regret that his party didn’t participate in the 2018 panchayat polls in Jammu and Kashmir.

The National Conference had not participated in the panchayat polls held in September 2018 and also boycotted the Block Development Council (BDC) polls held in 2019 after the abrogation of Jammu and Kashmir’s special status.

Speaking at the parliamentary outreach programme for strengthening Parliamentary Raj Institutions (PRIs), Abdullah exuded confidence that soon a government will be formed in Jammu and Kashmir which will make officials answerable to people.

Requesting Lieutenant Governor Manoj Sinha, who was present on the dais, for providing security to panchayat leaders, Abdullah said they are being targeted by terrorists.

“The politicians who are standing with the country are target of the terrorists and it is for the country to protect them,” he said.
Talking about local polls held in September 2018, the National Conference leader said, “I regret that my party didn’t participate in panchayat polls”.

Abdullah expressed his anguish that government officials of the Jammu and Kashmir administration “don’t pick phones as if some ghost is hanging upon them”. He requested Sinha to instruct officials to answer phone calls of people.

“Soon a government will be formed in Jammu and Kashmir which will make government officials answerable to the people,” Abdullah said.
 

RISING SUN

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Amarinder Singh moves to start own party; Cong’s Harish Rawat denies ‘humiliation’ claim​

Two weeks after he was ousted as Punjab Chief Minister and said he was “humiliated” by the Congress, Captain Amarinder Singh is all set to launch his own political party, The Indian Express has learnt.

Sources in the Amarinder camp said he will have “leaders opposed to (Punjab Congress chief) Navjot Singh Sidhu” in the new outfit. “The Constitution of the new party is being prepared… We have been discussing four names. For now, we have zeroed in on Punjab Vikas Party (PVP).
There is a consensus on the name but it is not final yet,” sources said.

In Dehradun, meanwhile, AICC general secretary in charge of Punjab Harish Rawat rejected Amarinder’s remark that he had been humiliated and said the Congress always held him “in high esteem”. Rawat also raised a question mark over Amarinder’s “secular credentials” following the former CM’s meeting Thursday with Union Home Minister Amit Shah in Delhi.

On Thursday, Amarinder had said he would quit the Congress but not join the BJP. He had also said that he would field a strong candidate in the state elections next year against Sidhu, whose strident opposition led to his ouster.

Sources said Amarinder had earlier decided to hold a meeting of his supporters on Gandhi Jayanti but that has now been delayed. “We will hold a meeting soon. Several senior leaders are expected to join,” sources said.

“He (Amarinder) has told supporters that he will not go with the BJP. But this does not mean that we cannot get tacit support from BJP. Our politics is not for getting power, it is for preventing Sidhu from becoming Chief Minister. If our candidates are able to get even 3,000-4,000 votes, they can prove to be spoilers in a multi-corner contest that Punjab is likely to witness, with SAD and AAP in the fray. This can affect the prospects of Congress candidates,” said a supporter of Amarinder Singh.

This is not the first time that Amarinder is toying with the idea of floating his own party. When he had revolted against former Punjab Congress chief Partap Singh Bajwa in 2014-2015, he had decided with his supporters to launch a political party. However, the plan was shelved after a few of his supporters said at the time that they would not leave the Congress.

In Dehradun, Rawat took aim at Amarinder’s meeting with Shah. “His proximity to Amit Shah and some BJP leaders raises a question over his lifetime capital — his secular credentials,” he said.

Detailing the Congress’s ties with the Punjab leader, Rawat said that even after suffering a “crushing defeat” from Patiala in 1998, Amarinder was inducted into the party, appointed as president of its state unit on three occasions and twice made CM with a “completely free hand”.

Rawat claimed that despite reminders from colleagues and the leadership, Amarinder failed to keep his poll promises on important issues like the sacrilege case, the fight against drugs, electricity tariffs, etc. “There was a general perception throughout the state that Captain and the Badals are helping each other, and they have a secret understanding,” Rawat said.

According to Rawat, the sacrilege issue was “mishandled by trusted lieutenants” of Amarinder. He also claimed that many Punjab ministers came to Delhi with the complaint that with Amarinder at the helm, Congress would not be able to win the next state elections.

According to Rawat, 43 party MLAs told the leadership in a letter that despite repeated efforts they could not get anything done through the Chief Minister, and sought a Legislature Party meeting.

Rawat said he tried to contact Amarinder thrice but could not, and sent a message for a CLP meeting. “He didn’t bother to telephone me. Then I suggested to the party high command that if we delay, many MLAs may form a separate group or create more problems,” he said.

Rawat said Amarinder had himself offered to resign. “Before choosing a new CLP leader, a unanimous resolution was passed by all MLAs praising Amarinder and thanking him for giving leadership to the state Congress and CLP as chief minister. How does this sequence of events suggest that anybody intended to humiliate him? No humiliation was done to him,” he said.
 

RISING SUN

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Amarinder Singh meets NSA Ajit Doval day after talks with Amit Shah​

The Congress is said to be reaching out to Amarinder Singh and top functionaries of the grand old party like Ambika Soni and Kamal Nath are said to be making all efforts to pacify him.

Former Punjab chief minister Amarinder Singh met national security advisor Ajit Doval on Thursday. While more information on the visit is yet to emerge, the meeting holds significance coming a day after Singh held talks with Union home minister Amit Shah.

Singh, who resigned as the chief minister recently citing months-long humiliation by a section of Congress leaders, said he spoke to Shah about the three centrally introduced agri laws, which have led to massive farmers protests, amid rising speculations over his switching over to the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).
Delhi: Former Punjab CM Captain Amarinder Singh leaves from the residence of NSA Ajit Doval pic.twitter.com/1pusKM9HhO
— ANI (@ANI) September 30, 2021

Following Navjot Singh Sidhu’s sudden resignation as the state Congress chief putting the party in fresh turmoil, Singh had said the former was not a stable man fit for a border state like Pakistan. Earlier too, he had raised fears of unrest in Punjab having a larger impact on the country’s security.

Meanwhile, some reports suggested the Congress has been reaching out to its tallest leader in Punjab days after he called it quits as the chief minister and said his options were open. Top functionaries of the grand old party like Ambika Soni and Kamal Nath are said to be making all efforts to pacify him.

Some of his loyalists have also been accommodated in the recently announced cabinet in Punjab headed by Charanjit Singh Channi, who took over following Singh’s exit.

Channi will meet Sidhu later in the day as tweeted by the latter, who was reportedly unhappy with the new cabinet and had resigned over soaring differences.

“Chief Minister has invited me for talks … will reciprocate by reaching Punjab Bhawan, Chandigarh at 3:00 PM today, he is welcome for any discussions,” the cricketer-turned-politician wrote on Twitter.
 
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RISING SUN

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Delimitation Commission: Draft report proposes massive changes in Kashmir division​

New Delhi, Feb 5: The Delimitation Commission has proposed an overhaul of assembly and Lok Sabha constituencies in Jammu and Kashmir in its draft report which has been handed over to five associate members from the Union Territory for their suggestions, officials said on Saturday.

The voluminous report has proposed redrawing of the Anantnag Parliamentary seat by including Rajouri and Poonch from the Jammu region, besides carrying out massive changes in the Kashmir division, they said.

Many of the assembly seats in erstwhile Jammu and Kashmir state have vanished that include Habba Kadal, a seat that was seen as a traditional bastion of migrant Kashmiri pandits.

Barring Khanyar, Sonwar and Hazratbal assembly seats of Srinagar district, all other seats have been redrawn and merged with new assembly seats being carved out like Chanapora and Srinagar South, the officials said.


Voters from Habba Kadal will now be part of at least three assembly seats in the new proposed report, they said.

Similarly, Budgam district, which had five assembly seats, was redrawn and merged with Baramulla Parliamentary constituency besides splitting some of the areas and carving out new assembly seats like Kunzer in North Kashmir.

Sangrama seat in North Kashmir has been merged with other assembly seats, they said.

Pulwama, Tral and some areas of Shopian, which formed part of the Anantnag Lok Sabha seat, will now be part of the Srinagar Parliamentary seat.

The report was sent to the five associate members Farooq Abdullah, Hasnain Masoodi and Akbar Lone (Lok Sabha MPs from the National Conference) and Jitendra Singh and Jugal Kishore (BJP MPs) on Friday.

They have been asked to submit their views by February 14 after which the report would be put in the public domain, the officials added.

The report has ignored the objections filed by the National Conference on December 31 last year rejecting the proposal to increase six Assembly seats in the Jammu region as against just one in the Kashmir division.

The Commission headed by retired Supreme Court judge Justice Ranjana Desai with Chief Election Commissioner Sushil Chandra and state election commission K K Sharma was set up on March 6, 2020 and was granted an extension of a year on March 6, 2021, which will come to an end next month.

The Delimitation Commission has held two meetings with the Associate Members on February 18 and December 20 last year. While the first meeting was boycotted by the three National Conference MPs, they attended the second meeting.

The NC had vociferously opposed the draft proposals which will increase the number of Assembly seats in the Jammu division from 37 to 43 and in Kashmir from 46 to 47.

The party, in its objections, had termed the Reorganisation of Jammu and Kashmir Act as "Constitutionally suspect" and questioned the recommendations of the delimitation panel especially its rationale behind increasing six seats in the Jammu division as against one in the Kashmir region.

In its reply to the Commission, the NC argued that there were question marks over the Constitutional propriety of the panel especially when the party along with several others had approached the Supreme Court challenging the action of August 5, 2019 by the Centre of revoking the special status and bifurcating the erstwhile state in two Union territories - Ladakh and Jammu and Kashmir.
The party said the Commission has been formed because of the Reorganisation Act of Jammu and Kashmir 2019 which is under judicial scrutiny and the Supreme Court is yet to deliver its order.

The panel's recommendations are borne out of an Act which is a "Constitutionally suspect" law, it said.

According to legal parlance, if any Act is under judicial custody and the apex court is seized of the matter, it can be termed as a Constitutionally suspect law.

The party said the principle of Constitution propriety demands that such a law should not be implemented and all the limbs of the state and their institutions should, out of deference to the top constitutional court, desist from implementing such law till its constitutionality is determined.

The National Conference also challenged the theory of Commission that the seats had to be extended in the Jammu region because of difficult terrains and geographically remote areas.
It highlighted that several areas in Kashmir remain cut-off for months and are equally arduous when it comes to the remoteness of an area.

The party highlighted several areas in Anantnag, Kupwara, Baramulla, Kulgam and Uri in Kashmir division to compare remoteness and tough terrain.

The major objection of the party was about the formula that had been adopted by the Commission by throwing the concept of population to the wind and said Kashmir division, despite having a higher number of people compared to Jammu, got only one seat.

After the completion of the delimitation exercise, the number of Assembly seats in Jammu and Kashmir will go up from 83 to 90.

In the erstwhile assembly of Jammu and Kashmir state, Kashmir had 46 seats, Jammu 37 and Ladakh four.