Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions

Ankit Kumar

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
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Bangalore
South Korea played it smart. Bought enough submarines of a similar class for a good production run brining down costs, kept buying through a single vendor , meaning excess costs on ToT acquisition and infrastructure creation was minimised and ensured that there was no break in the production activities, meaning the trained hands were never lost.
Similar models implemented by Turkey. And to some extent by Japan.

The most important thing is that the production line should not be idle. The moment the production line goes idle, we are back to square one.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
13,882
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Mumbai
South Korea played it smart. Bought enough submarines of a similar class for a good production run brining down costs, kept buying through a single vendor , meaning excess costs on ToT acquisition and infrastructure creation was minimised and ensured that there was no break in the production activities, meaning the trained hands were never lost.
Similar models implemented by Turkey. And to some extent by Japan.

The most important thing is that the production line should not be idle. The moment the production line goes idle, we are back to square one.
Blame it on the MoD & CCS & by extension the GoI for letting IN having its way with the P-76I w/o exercising the follow on clause for at least 3 more Scorpenes in the previous contract.

I've yet to see one logical statement from all the concerned parties as to why the follow on clause has not been exercised.

OTOH ,we've to put up with daily statements coming from the IN personnel either serving or retired on how dire the state of affairs are with our submarine arm or that they aren't state of the art meaning no AIP as of now .OTOH ,we've the media speculating ( rightly , may I add ) as to why haven't we gone ahead with indigenous R&D of conventional submarines.

And now we've another fantasy project of the IN being materialized in P-76I . If IN were serious about indigenous platforms why haven't they initiated simultaneous steps towards launching a study for such an endeavor. Why's the MoD not taking them to task ? Why's it the MoD is also largely silent on massive cost & time over runs in nearly every IN project from submarine to destroyer manufacturing?
 
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Ashwin

Agent_47
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Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
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South Korea played it smart. Bought enough submarines of a similar class for a good production run brining down costs, kept buying through a single vendor , meaning excess costs on ToT acquisition and infrastructure creation was minimised and ensured that there was no break in the production activities, meaning the trained hands were never lost.
Similar models implemented by Turkey. And to some extent by Japan.

The most important thing is that the production line should not be idle. The moment the production line goes idle, we are back to square one.
And we could end up importing from them. I think that is the only design with enough VLS and displacement that we are looking for. Also its in production.


 

Ashwin

Agent_47
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Nov 30, 2017
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DAP2030new_0-pdf.png


Screenshot 2021-06-09 at 20-17-41 DAP2030new_0 pdf.png


We have reached the RFP stage now. Since there are exceptions defined in the DAP-2020 for submarines. The expected timeframe from now will be lesser than we expect.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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India
South Korea played it smart. Bought enough submarines of a similar class for a good production run brining down costs, kept buying through a single vendor , meaning excess costs on ToT acquisition and infrastructure creation was minimised and ensured that there was no break in the production activities, meaning the trained hands were never lost.
Similar models implemented by Turkey. And to some extent by Japan.

The most important thing is that the production line should not be idle. The moment the production line goes idle, we are back to square one.

We lack the political maturity to emulate their way of doing it, case in point the Rafale saga. Plus the lack of money. But what the others did was the plan.

According to the original plan, both P-75 and 75I were to be produced by MDL for a total of 12, with 6 more as options. The indigenous SSK would have followed for the remaining 6, produced by MDL as well.

We couldn't afford combining the P-75 and 75I into a single requirement because we were not rich enough. The Scorpene deal alone was $3.5B, there's no way we could have paid $7B for 12 right off the bat at the time. Do remember this was during Vajpayee's time when the defence budget was barely $10-12B.

Furthermore, the production of the Scorpene took so long that it became outdated as it began deliveries, particularly due to the lack of AIP, which was not helped by the delays even the AIP tech has faced. The navy is also not happy with the HWT delays. Its CM loadout is not enough, especially for the land attack requirement. Right now, it's practically dead on arrival. It can still fulfill the basic submarine duties though, but it's quickly gonna be outclassed by newer Chinese designs, requiring the P-75I to match them. Even with DRDO's new AIP tech, it will still take years to make it fully operational.

IN doesn't like DPSUs anymore. This has become a fad amongst all three services. And who can blame them? The private sector is breaking records everywhere.
 

jetray

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Mar 15, 2018
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India
Obviously "mera bharat mahaan" Indians will never learn any thing from this. This virtually shows how much we have stagnated. Nothing to take away from korea but until 1980s India was ahead in industry or was on par with korea. Progress is not just size of economy but also development including attitude & culture, India severely lags in every thing.

It's misleading.

The Koreans built 9 of the Chang Bogo class (Type 209, KSS-I) followed by 9 Son Won-yil (Type 214, KSS-II). Basically the 214s are not Chang Bogo.
we need more ppl like you , missing the wood for the trees. Next I suppose you are going to say we have all-clear shampoo.. ..err I mean ....nuclear sub which is far more advanced.
YES but the Scorpene is more beautiful
(y)
Is it a girl.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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we need more ppl like you , missing the wood for the trees. Next I suppose you are going to say we have all-clear shampoo.. ..err I mean ....nuclear sub which is far more advanced.

When someone is trying to misguide you, will you still be looking at the forest?

I had already addressed this in post 647. What the Koreans did, we couldn't afford. Next someone will say, we should have done what the Americans did and inducted 50+ SSNs from the 1970s, and once again you will be looking for a forest that doesn't exist.
 
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jetray

Well-Known member
Mar 15, 2018
1,252
857
India
When someone is trying to misguide you, will you still be looking at the forest?

I had already addressed this in post 647. What the Koreans did, we couldn't afford. Next someone will say, we should have done what the Americans did and inducted 50+ SSNs from the 1970s, and once again you will be looking for a forest that doesn't exist.
The very fact we are being compared to korea (thats great right, earlier it was with pakistan) not US should let you know where we are. As usual you are lost and cant even see the writing on the wall but keep drowning in mundane technical jargons spiraling down in your own self deceiving analysis.
Obviously we should compare ourselves with America if we want a UN seat or to play an important role in world politics. Seems when you are blind it makes no difference whether its trees or crows.
 

Hydra

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May 19, 2020
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During a war, I'd put more trust into materiel designed by a nation that actually fights than in a nation that says you should buy their crap but not use them in combat.
We are not even designing bare minimum weapons which certified for combat by our military standard. So before making such statement try to understand the ground reality.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
10,600
8,032
India
The very fact we are being compared to korea (thats great right, earlier it was with pakistan) not US should let you know where we are. As usual you are lost and cant even see the writing on the wall but keep drowning in mundane technical jargons spiraling down in your own self deceiving analysis.
Obviously we should compare ourselves with America if we want a UN seat or to play an important role in world politics. Seems when you are blind it makes no difference whether its trees or crows.

You missed the point. Outlook is indeed mocking India, but they are using incorrect information to do the same.

You seem to be way too centered around the mocking part, that instead of bothering to correct them, you are lost in the forest they have created.