Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions

randomradio

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Better to scrap it and move on with our design we have the capability to do that.

The IN wants these subs in a hurry, which is why they expect to sign a contract in 2022 and want to start inducting the subs before the end of 2032. Our own design will take us 15+ years if we start today. We do have plans for a domestic SSK though.
 

Chain Smoker

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The IN wants these subs in a hurry, which is why they expect to sign a contract in 2022 and want to start inducting the subs before the end of 2032. Our own design will take us 15+ years if we start today. We do have plans for a domestic SSK though.
By that time whole world will move towards 5th gen sub just look at the progress being in terms of design, AIP, propulsion etc by countries who are having their own sub . So you want to say that we will directly jump on that level.
 

Ankit Kumar

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DAC meeting held today gives go-ahead to Project 'P-75 I' of @indiannavy under which 06 #submarines to be built in the country under 'Strategic Partnership' model, MoD to issues RFP soon for conventional subs
 
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Ankit Kumar

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That's why I am saying even the foreign submarine are taking too much time to enter service so it's better to make our own.
Our own SSK design will happen too. When we have enough capabilities on board. Meanwhile this is the best we can do.

I don't think we are politically ready to rip off a design and start producing it like the South Koreans did with Type209s. So it will take long time. Then entering construction, testing, trials... It will take longer than 15 years.
 
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randomradio

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By that time whole world will move towards 5th gen sub just look at the progress being in terms of design, AIP, propulsion etc by countries who are having their own sub . So you want to say that we will directly jump on that level.

Indigenisation of SSKs is currently not a priority of the IN, especially when they are gonna get Indian made SSNs. What's more important is to introduce capability quickly in order to arrest a drop in our SSK numbers since our Kilos are very close to retirement.

You can compare our SSKs to the Rafale and our SSNs to the AMCA. One is needed quickly, hence will be imported, while the other is a long term development program.

We have drone submersible programs that will keep our R&D capabilities fresh.
 

Hydra

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Personally i beleive, IN & Mod should Some how works out to convince Japanese to sell its soryu class sub to India. The soryu class is no longer cutting edge for Japanese, they already building its successor boats to soryu. So Its up to Mod how they can convince Japanese to do that, why should they keep their second best sub exclusively to themselves when they are building more advanced boats, why not they are sharing with a quad member.

Lastly,The one thing we should learn from Japanese is that how they are keeping their sub surface fleet relevant always, no matter how advance the boat is they will start producing successor to existing one in every 15 years so. Advantage of this strategy is Their navy used to get brand new sub , their domestic industry will never out of order and experienced shipyard crew never get wasted & R&D is constantly get upgraded.
Even UK is having similar ship building /designing strategy. Royal Navy will not use its surface fleets more than 15-20 years( except ACs). On the other hand, we recently decommissioned INS Rajput after 40 long years of service, and still three more ships from same class is in service with IN.
 
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randomradio

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Personally i beleive, IN & Mod should Some how works out to convince Japanese to sell its soryu class sub to India. The soryu class is no longer cutting edge for Japanese, they already building its successor boats to soryu. So Its up to Mod how they can convince Japanese to do that, why should they keep their second best sub exclusively to themselves when they are building more advanced boats, why not they are sharing with a quad member.

Lastly,The one thing we should learn from Japanese is that how they are keeping their sub surface fleet relevant always, no matter how advance the boat is they will start producing successor to existing one in every 15 years so. Advantage of this strategy is Their navy used to get brand new sub , their domestic industry will never out of order and experienced shipyard crew never get wasted & R&D is constantly get upgraded.
Even UK is having similar ship building /designing strategy. Royal Navy will not use its surface fleets more than 15-20 years( except ACs). On the other hand, we recently decommissioned INS Rajput after 40 long years of service, and still three more ships from same class is in service with IN.

Japan does not want to give ToT.

Our best options remain Korea and France.
 

Chain Smoker

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Scorpene TOT clearly went from MDL to SDG but those *censored*ers didn't utilised it. May be they were busy in SSN and SSBN project since manpower is limited.
E3VOgDpVcAcCTYG.jpeg
 
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Hydra

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Scorpene TOT clearly went from MDL to SDG but those *censored*ers didn't utilised it. May be they were busy in SSN and SSBN project since manpower is limited.
View attachment 19984
Similar things happened with boffors howitzer deal too. We have received the blueprints, but did not utilised for 20+ years, now ofb has come up with Dhanush based on the technology we received.

Funny part is that soko has received tot from same German firm on same sub, now they are pitching for the 75I deal with a sub design, which developed by utilising the technology they received from germans.

Dont know why mod is giving repeated orders to the sluggish & incapable MDL alone. They have a terrible time line on warship building too.
 

randomradio

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Very sad state of affairs we are wasting billions of dollars on these useless TOT and absorb nothing in return. Same with the case of T 90,DRDO doesn't it's technology so where does it goes.

ToT from production deals have nothing to do with making an indigenous submarine. Same story with fighter jet production.

India doesn't have an inhouse SSK R&D because it's not a priority. The IN is more interested in importing this tech while working inhouse for SSBN/SSNs. But an indigenous program is expected to begin after the P-75I gets going, as long as money is allocated, unless the IN chases after the third carrier again.
 
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STEPHEN COHEN

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ToT from production deals have nothing to do with making an indigenous submarine. Same story with fighter jet production.

India doesn't have an inhouse SSK R&D because it's not a priority. The IN is more interested in importing this tech while working inhouse for SSBN/SSNs. But an indigenous program is expected to begin after the P-75I gets going, as long as money is allocated, unless the IN chases after the third carrier again.

The Question that definitely arises is that when we can make our own Nuclear Submarines , why are Conventional Submarines proving to be so difficult
 

Hydra

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ToT from production deals have nothing to do with making an indigenous submarine. Same story with fighter jet production.

India doesn't have an inhouse SSK R&D because it's not a priority. The IN is more interested in importing this tech while working inhouse for SSBN/SSNs. But an indigenous program is expected to begin after the P-75I gets going, as long as money is allocated, unless the IN chases after the third carrier again.
If we aren't ready for in house R&D and follows on research , why we have spent around 6000 crore rupees for ToT, we could be able to construct two frigate for that price.
 
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randomradio

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If we aren't ready for in house R&D and follows on research , why we have spent around 6000 crore rupees for ToT, we could be able to construct two frigate for that price.

With ToT, we can produce any number, but the IN doesn't want more Scorpenes. They want much bigger subs.
 

Ankit Kumar

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ToT of submarine gets useless if there is any gap in the production line. There was gap after Type 209 assembly, trained hands and toolings were lost. Same thing is going to happen with Scorpene.

And in the absence of a experienced designing team, the blue prints too shall be of no use.