Operation Sindoor: India Strikes Terroist Camps Inside Pakitsan

[Defc0n]

There is a lot of hype bunkum and incorrect information about stealth planes floating around.

True stealth is still a few gens away (if radar tech stays static). A multitude of factors dictate how stealthy a plane is.

If the Chinese and Russians can successfully track US stealth planes using an integrated line of VHF and UHF radars why do you think J-35 will fare any better?

The Chinese stole a lot of F-35 documentation but their manufacturing levels are not at par with US even now. Their RAM coatings are yet to be put to the test.

I am very keen to see how PAF manages these birds. The people who ration F-16 hours will be squeezed dry with birds that need 10+ hours of work per flight hour.

For the record, I am not talking about a “perfect” stealth here. J-35s will be “Low Observable” making it incredibly difficult to pick up on radar at long distances. As I have mentioned above, it will allow PAF the ability to Fire SOWs from way back without IAF picking them up. Any idea on what kind of weapons package PAF is getting along with J-35s, especially ground attack standoff weapons?

Then, in an A2A standoff, how is this not similar to 2019 situation? It’s going to play out exactly the same way. See-first-shoot-first capabilities with PAF will force IAF to be defensive.

And for all this to happen, there doesn’t need to be a “perfect stealth” jet in my opinion .

 

[South block]

50% off J-35A fighter jets! China’s half-price stealth deal to Pakistan ignites online backlash, user says 'we pay the price'

Chinas reported plan to deliver 30 J-35A stealth fighters to Pakistan at a 50% discount by August 2025 has set off a storm on Chinese social media. Citizens have criticised the move as reckless, citing Pakistans financial instability and unpaid defence bills. With the J-35 yet to enter Chinese...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Beijing’s decision to fast-track the delivery of 30 J-35A stealth fighters to Pakistan has ignited a wave of backlash among Chinese citizens. The deal, reportedly offered at a 50% discount, is scheduled to begin in August 2025. If it proceeds, it would mark China’s first-ever export of a fifth-generation jet, as reported by Business Today.

"Ah, so it's basically an open admission that their current air fleet is so underwhelming it can’t do s**t against IAF ..... hence the fire sale on stealth jets lol Nothing says 'military prowess' like a 50% clearance discount on your so-called fifth-gen fighters

 

[Shan]

As Pakistan fails to get into ‘expected’ UNSC panels, India in talks with friends

Sources in New York told The Indian Express that Pakistan demanded to be the chair of the 1267 Sanctions Committee; 1540 (Non-Proliferation) Sanctions Committee; 1988 (Taliban) Committee and Chair of the 1373 Counter Terrorism Committee (CTC).

indianexpress.com

Well....not a good look for the Pak diplomats.

 

[South block]

As Pakistan fails to get into ‘expected’ UNSC panels, India in talks with friends

Sources in New York told The Indian Express that Pakistan demanded to be the chair of the 1267 Sanctions Committee; 1540 (Non-Proliferation) Sanctions Committee; 1988 (Taliban) Committee and Chair of the 1373 Counter Terrorism Committee (CTC).

indianexpress.com

Well....this is just plain face plant for the Pak diplomats.

Pakistani diplomats often appear embarrassingly unsophisticated in their conduct, basically pendu....... A rare few who showed rationality..... even by Islamist ideological standards , have either emigrated or been silenced by the boys at pindi......Their habitual dishonesty is passed off as strategic 5D maneuvering, but it's far from clever....... The consistent dysfunction seems systemic, possibly rooted in deeper social issues....i blame inbreeding.... For them, a day without international embarrassment seems almost unthinkable at this point.

 

[safriz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1930905096222814211

This isn't unseen

There are two sounds of low flying turbo fan engines.
These were two Storm shadow / scalp missiles.

 

[TARGET]

 

[Herciv]

Nur KAN that's a super hot US/Pakistani base for nuclear purpose. Modi has very big balls to send such messages to Pakistani/US/China.

No doubt. SCALP and Rafale are at the heart of this strike.

 

[Shan]

A paper from ORF:

Dual Fault Lines in China’s Military: Weapons Fail, Generals Jailed

Dual Fault Lines in China’s Military: Weapons Fail, Generals Jailed

www.orfonline.org

 

[South block]

To much inconsistency in claims..... Need to wait.

 

[Shan]

 

[Shan]

Good insights by Tom. I hope that IAF actually leaks at least some op details.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1931980751299400132

 

[Herciv]

The facts are as follows:

- NUR-KHAN was accurately bombed by missiles (most likely SCALPs, given the engine noise)

- NUR-KHAN has since been sealed off by US forces. I said US, it's a fact, not an opinion or propaganda.

- The Chinese are going to sell fighters and missiles at knock-down prices, far more modern than the PL-15/J-10/J-17, and in a hurry.

- The waltz and disappearance of generals has been going on for 2 years in China (but it's not impossible to think that the Pakistani episode will accelerate the turnover).

You can draw whatever conclusions/opinions you like from this, but if China and the US are coordinating in Pakistan, that raises questions. And I fully understand Modi's attitude of seeking support from people in countries that are reluctant to trust the US or China.



Whether we like it or not, the SINDOOR episode has not finished making headlines. It's probably just the beginning, but the Indians have put the brakes on and gained a few months, maybe more. In my opinion, the Rafale deal will close this summer. It can't be put off any longer.

 

[Lolwa]

@Lolwa

By the look of it you may be getting your dream of IAF aquiring R-37Ms pretty damn soon. I just hope we replace the junk Russian seeker with our own Ku-Band AESA seeker that we have developed for Astra series/Akash-NG and locally produce these missiles.

If we could mki/akashise the r-37. The pl-17 will no more be a serious problem.

I'd say we need to invest in IRST tech big time to deal with this new threat.
- Dual band IRST - across MKI, MiG-29, Rafale, LCA Mk2 fleets.
- Podded IRST - for M2000, Jag and LCA Mk1. We should be looking at networked pods (similar to Legion/IRST-21) that can detect stealth targets via triangulation and potentially increase reaction time.
- Large turret mounted IRST sensors on AWACS, SIGINT, ISTAR and even LRMP ac with significantly greater range. The Chinese KJ-700 has a large nose mounted IRST in addition to its dorsal radome.

China’s New KJ-700 Multi-Intelligence Radar Plane's Interesting Features

The latest Chinese airborne early warning and control aircraft boasts an array of electro-optical and infrared sensors, as well as multiple radars. The latest Chinese airborne early warning and control aircraft boasts a very extensive array of electro-optical and infrared sensors, as well as radar.

www.twz.com

We need to invest in electro-opticals like we are investing in our SAM and AESA programme.

 

[Lolwa]

The facts are as follows:

- NUR-KHAN was accurately bombed by missiles (most likely SCALPs, given the engine noise)

- NUR-KHAN has since been sealed off by US forces. I said US, it's a fact, not an opinion or propaganda.

- The Chinese are going to sell fighters and missiles at knock-down prices, far more modern than the PL-15/J-10/J-17, and in a hurry.

- The waltz and disappearance of generals has been going on for 2 years in China (but it's not impossible to think that the Pakistani episode will accelerate the turnover).

You can draw whatever conclusions/opinions you like from this, but if China and the US are coordinating in Pakistan, that raises questions. And I fully understand Modi's attitude of seeking support from people in countries that are reluctant to trust the US or China.



Whether we like it or not, the SINDOOR episode has not finished making headlines. It's probably just the beginning, but the Indians have put the brakes on and gained a few months, maybe more. In my opinion, the Rafale deal will close this summer. It can't be put off any longer.

Our rafale requirement is a minimum 250 atleast.

 

[Lolwa]

The Chinese are going to sell fighters and missiles at knock-down prices, far more modern than the PL-15/J-10/J-17, and in a hurry.

Don't be surprised if we start seeing export j-16's soon. The j-10 will be sold to Iran, Africa and South East Asia. It will be a huge problem for western allies who don't have f-35's, typhoon or the rafale.

 

[Rajput Lion]

If we could mki/akashise the r-37. The pl-17 will no more be a serious problem.

No. R-37M or not, PL-17 is a serious problem. What did I reveal in the Indo-China war thread? Remember that? PL-17 has a very different sensor-shooter loop
than conventional BVRs that have circa 200kms range and can be guided by fighter's own FCR or any third-party buddy plane or AEW&C. PL-17 has almost 400 to 500kms range. It is impossible for even AEW to guide this missile that far towards the target. So what's the solution:

1. J-16(in PLAAF's case) or J-35AE(in PAF's case) would launch PL-17 in co-operative targeting mode where one stealth fighter in flying ahead closer to the target and guides the missile via its own on-board FCR or EO sensors.

2. China has dedicated satellites with full AMTI/AMTT functions that can guide PL-17s towards its target 400+ kms away.

If the Chinese open their Satellites for the Pakistanis then we would be in serious trouble especially our HVAs like Phalcon & Netra.

So what could be our option to disrupt this kill-chain:

1. Take out the effin Chinese satellites via ASAT on the first day of war itself. No mercy to the P i g s or their supporters.

2. Take out enemy AEW&C using our long-range SAMs or VLRAAMs like R-37M or Astra MK4.

We need to invest in electro-opticals like we are investing in our SAM and AESA programme.

We are just doing that. In fact a whole EO based detection complex is coming up to counter VLO threats.

 

[vstol Jockey]

China has done just the opposite of what many other nations are doing. The very extended range of their A2A misiles is not to take out targets at such long ranges but it is to create a very extended NEZ. The Launch platform will just launch the missile and go off while an AEW aircraft guides it. The only way to break the kill chain is to disable the two way datalink beyween the guiding/updating aircraft and the missile or jam the seeker or destroy this guiding/updating aircraft.

 

[Rajput Lion]

China has done just the opposite of what many other nations are doing. The very extended range of their A2A misiles is not to take out targets at such long ranges but it is to create a very extended NEZ. The Launch platform will just launch the missile and go off while an AEW aircraft guides it. The only way to break the kill chain is to disable the two way datalink beyween the guiding/updating aircraft and the missile or jam the seeker or destroy this guiding/updating aircraft.

Americans are also developing a very long-range kill chain involving their own VLRAAM AIM-174B launched by Super Hornets to counter PLAAF AEW and other airborne C&C nodes. Long range NEZ is okay, but we can't dismiss the possibility of very long range kills guided by LEO/GEO satellites, IMO.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Americans are also developing a very long-range kill chain involving their own VLRAAM AIM-174B launched by Super Hornets to counter PLAAF AEW and other airborne C&C nodes. Long range NEZ is okay, but we can't dismiss the possibility of very long range kills guided by LEO/GEO satellites, IMO.

The future is space. we will soon have staellites capable of locking on to targets arranged by AWACS and guided by space based assets. The next frontier is Space based lasers.